The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 54 of 54
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    With all the Chaos theme, he's certainly no Paladin or Monk. I wouldn't preclude, however, an ex-Monk, due to some contrived background story where, during his first travels, he met and was trained by a drunken master, before he becoming Chaotic.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-09-06 at 03:28 PM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lord Torath's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Sharangar's Revenge
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    I could see Julio as a bard with Perform (Seductive Poetry) as his performance skill. Or a swashbuckler who cross-classed into that skill.

    As for the Dashing Swordsman class, Rich has said he will never write down the details. By keeping it undescribed, he maintains it in a superposition similar to Haley's Wands: it has whatever abilities and powers he needs it to have.
    Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
    My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
    Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    I could see Julio as a bard with Perform (Seductive Poetry) as his performance skill. Or a swashbuckler who cross-classed into that skill.

    As for the Dashing Swordsman class, Rich has said he will never write down the details. By keeping it undescribed, he maintains it in a superposition similar to Haley's Wands: it has whatever abilities and powers he needs it to have.
    That's all well and good for the time being, but it looks like it's such a fun class to use (punnery for bonus damage? Heck yeah!) that I really hope details are written up sometime after the comic ends. That may well be in half a decade, but still it would be nice to use it.

    And if he doesn't write it, we probably will XD
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    That's all well and good for the time being, but it looks like it's such a fun class to use (punnery for bonus damage? Heck yeah!) that I really hope details are written up sometime after the comic ends. That may well be in half a decade, but still it would be nice to use it.

    And if he doesn't write it, we probably will XD
    If you don't mind moving on to 5th Edition, then the Swashbuckler archetype for Rogues serves as a pretty good approximation. You get Charisma to Initiative, and can Sneak Attack any opponent within five feet of you, so long as that opponent is the only opponent within five feet of you. It's not a perfect approximation of the Dashing Swordsman, admittedly- no fabled "Charisma bonus to attack"(for that, you'd need three levels of Paladin of Devotion)- but I reckon it's reasonably close.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    And if he doesn't write it, we probably will XD
    Oh it's been done already, doubtlessly countless times. But on the forums here, this is the only one I can find.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Oh it's been done already, doubtlessly countless times. But on the forums here, this is the only one I can find.
    Oooh, nice!
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GrayGriffin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Actually, according to the digital bonus content in Don't Split the Party, Rich did have plans to write up Dashing Swordsman as part of a larger OotS-based sourcebook. Though it's now very unlikely that he'll actually finish it.
    Last edited by GrayGriffin; 2019-09-07 at 12:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
    Currently playing as Atalanta/Artemis in Arcran's Pocket Monsters Online! (OOC|IC)

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    Actually, according to the digital bonus content in Don't Split the Party, Rich did have plans to write up Dashing Swordsman as part of a larger OotS-based sourcebook. Though it's now very unlikely that he'll actually finish it.
    Iíve never played D&D (though I do want to get into it), and I would definitely buy an Oots sourcebook if one was ever made.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    I wouldn't be surprised if Elan was among the highest level Bards in the world, but I doubt he's the highest. He's not a professional performer outside his adventuring, after all. I'd expect someone like Elton John, Sting, or Joan Jett to translate to a high level Bard in D&D terms and Elan isn't quite on their level. Nor is he on the level of Deadpool, who according to this video* is also a high level Bard in D&D terms. He's also not a God of Bards. But we do need someone to judge him against, and so far we don't have anyone like that. Then again, a high level Evil Bard villain is quite hard to pull off (but would be cool to see if done well).

    *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV7Ev7DobDc

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by AchtungNight View Post
    Then again, a high level Evil Bard villain is quite hard to pull off (but would be cool to see if done well).
    Why is it hard to pull off? I haven't GMed much but have thought about trying to do a low level oneshot or something with a low-mid level bard as the main bad guy. Is it just because the bard is such a support orientated class?

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Why is it hard to pull off? I haven't GMed much but have thought about trying to do a low level oneshot or something with a low-mid level bard as the main bad guy. Is it just because the bard is such a support orientated class?
    The point is the transition from a mid-level to a high level character can seriously alter the set up of the battle. While a mid level support-oriented character might have some relevant skills for that point in the story to be a serious threat (think FFV's Blue Mage and Flamethrower/Thousand Needles/Aera), they might become vastly weaker at a later point without being basically a different class altogether or relying on a gimmick (traps that make fog everywhere, wind staff thing, etc.) instead of the class's own specialties. If the class runs out of viable offensive options by the time they become high-level, then it is complicated to give them a good fight without them being supporting a group of elite bodyguards instead (that Blue Mage has White Wind and Level 2 Old, but outside of Aeroga with an Air Knife and a few Level X skills they can't really do a lot of damage that a boss wouldn't be immune to like fractional damage or near-death blows).

    Within a story like this, you don't want to have the boss be protected by a series of goons with no climatic battle with the actual person. It can be done well, but it is much much trickier than just having the villain be clashing swords with the hero while everyone fights the various assisting foes.

    A Bard in particular is hard to do because you basically run into a dungeon and sing at people. That's a problem in of itself, and not exactly something you see someone doing as an antagonist unless they are charming people.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-09-07 at 06:31 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Just make the Bard boss dabble in Necromancy. Call them the Necrodancer. What, you think a few dozen zombies are beneath you? How about when the Level 18 Necrodancer is using Dragonfire Inspiration to give the zombies something in the neighborhood of +12d6 Acid Damage to their attacks?

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RatElemental's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Just make the Bard boss dabble in Necromancy. Call them the Necrodancer. What, you think a few dozen zombies are beneath you? How about when the Level 18 Necrodancer is using Dragonfire Inspiration to give the zombies something in the neighborhood of +12d6 Acid Damage to their attacks?
    Even better, have him steal the party's hearts so they're cursed to move to the beat of the music he's playing or die.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Even better, have him steal the party's hearts so they're cursed to move to the beat of the music he's playing or die.
    Need a soundtrack? Not anymore you don't.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Yeah, Elton John and Sting are high-level bards. But when they sing, does everyone on both sides of a huge battle stop to listen? Elan is not on Elton John's level, because he's far past it.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    óAs You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Yeah, Elton John and Sting are high-level bards. But when they sing, does everyone on both sides of a huge battle stop to listen? Elan is not on Elton John's level, because he's far past it.
    Elton John is just a level 9 Bard whose DM let him take surprisingly lucrative quests without realizing what it would do, and then retired early.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ipswich, MA, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Yeah, Elton John and Sting are high-level bards. But when they sing, does everyone on both sides of a huge battle stop to listen? Elan is not on Elton John's level, because he's far past it.
    Well, strictly speaking, we don't know if Elton John and Sting are sufficiently high-level to stop battles with the pathos of their music, because it hasn't been tested yet. Sounds like someone needs to fly them out to one For Science.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Far as I'm concerned, anyone can sig anything I say anytime.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    So... would that make this another example of a high level bard in fiction then?

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Weirdly enough, in 5th Edition, Bards are freaking TERRIFYING. They have access to every skill AND every spell in the game, and their ability to double their proficiency bonus for certain skills, and add half their proficiency bonus to ANY check that doesn't already include it means that whatever they're bad at, they're good at, and whatever they're good at, they're AMAZING at. Particularly College of Lore, who can use their Inspiration to increase their bonus even more. When it comes to Skills, Bards crack the system wide open. But, even in 3rd Edition, I think Bards can work as villains: Just a different sort then the kind you see in dungeons. As villains, I think they work best not as physical threats inandofthemsleves, but as Mastermind/Planner types. The problem isn't fighting them: It's even getting to them when they're hidden behind layers of illusions, traps, and the guy you arrested could be a decoy. Think someone like Myserio or The Riddler: Sure, they're physical pushovers by themselves, but that's not the issue: The issue is even figuring out where they are, and then getting there. Or, hell, think the Joker to the Wizard's Batman. An insanely-charismatic madman who always has another trick up his sleeve, is willing to use every resource, especially people, and whose illusions and sheer insanity ensure you can't out-plan him because you don't know what his plan even is. A high-level Bard is the type of guy who will build a massive Ice-themed dungeon...Then plop a Red Dragon as the final boss, and kick back eating popcorn as you find yourself preparing for an entirely different opponent. So much for Protection From Energy when it's protecting you from Cold rather then Fire.
    Last edited by woweedd; 2019-09-10 at 04:11 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Weirdly enough, in 5th Edition, Bards are freaking TERRIFYING. They have access to every skill AND every spell in the game, and their ability to double their proficiency bonus for certain skills, and add half their proficiency bonus to ANY check that doesn't already include it means that whatever they're bad at, they're good at, and whatever they're good at, they're AMAZING at. Particularly College of Lore, who can use their Inspiration to increase their bonus even more. When it comes to Skills, Bards crack the system wide open. But, even in 3rd Edition, I think Bards can work as villains: Just a different sort then the kind you see in dungeons. As villains, I think they work best not as physical threats inandofthemsleves, but as Mastermind/Planner types. The problem isn't fighting them: It's even getting to them when they're hidden behind layers of illusions, traps, and the guy you arrested could be a decoy. Think someone like Myserio or The Riddler: Sure, they're physical pushovers by themselves, but that's not the issue: The issue is even figuring out where they are, and then getting there. Or, hell, think the Joker to the Wizard's Batman. An insanely-charismatic madman who always has another trick up his sleeve, is willing to use every resource, especially people, and whose illusions and sheer insanity ensure you can't out-plan him because you don't know what his plan even is. A high-level Bard is the type of guy who will build a massive Ice-themed dungeon...Then plop a Red Dragon as the final boss, and kick back eating popcorn as you find yourself preparing for an entirely different opponent. So much for Protection From Energy when it's protecting you from Cold rather then Fire.
    So...Tarquin, if he wasn't Elan's father and so showed himself immediately.

    Bards as the archetype the class can be are good and work well since they make for good high-end villains, but in terms of dungeon bosses they tend to not work quite as well (especially in a solo boss or a boss with just a few minions) if they primarily make use of a Bard's talents.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    So...Tarquin, if he wasn't Elan's father and so showed himself immediately.

    Bards as the archetype the class can be are good and work well since they make for good high-end villains, but in terms of dungeon bosses they tend to not work quite as well (especially in a solo boss or a boss with just a few minions) if they primarily make use of a Bard's talents.
    I was thinking more "Tarquin, if he was Choatic", themed entirely around forcing even a master planner to react rather then plan.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I was thinking more "Tarquin, if he was Choatic", themed entirely around forcing even a master planner to react rather then plan.
    But what about a master planar?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Iíve never played D&D (though I do want to get into it), and I would definitely buy an Oots sourcebook if one was ever made.
    FWIW, rogue has Swashbuckler in D&D 5e which seems very similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    FWIW, rogue has Swashbuckler in D&D 5e which seems very similar.
    I mean I imagine a Dashing Swordsman class is not the only cool thing in whatever an OOTS sourcebook could contain, but Iíll check out the swashbuckler class whenever I get 5e.
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elanís Exception, ďWho wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?Ē. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peeleeís Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •