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Thread: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
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2019-09-06, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
With all the Chaos theme, he's certainly no Paladin or Monk. I wouldn't preclude, however, an ex-Monk, due to some contrived background story where, during his first travels, he met and was trained by a drunken master, before he becoming Chaotic.
Last edited by D.One; 2019-09-06 at 03:28 PM.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-09-06, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Sharangar's Revenge
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
I could see Julio as a bard with Perform (Seductive Poetry) as his performance skill. Or a swashbuckler who cross-classed into that skill.
As for the Dashing Swordsman class, Rich has said he will never write down the details. By keeping it undescribed, he maintains it in a superposition similar to Haley's Wands: it has whatever abilities and powers he needs it to have.Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2019-09-06, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
That's all well and good for the time being, but it looks like it's such a fun class to use (punnery for bonus damage? Heck yeah!) that I really hope details are written up sometime after the comic ends. That may well be in half a decade, but still it would be nice to use it.
And if he doesn't write it, we probably will XDAn explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-06, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
If you don't mind moving on to 5th Edition, then the Swashbuckler archetype for Rogues serves as a pretty good approximation. You get Charisma to Initiative, and can Sneak Attack any opponent within five feet of you, so long as that opponent is the only opponent within five feet of you. It's not a perfect approximation of the Dashing Swordsman, admittedly- no fabled "Charisma bonus to attack"(for that, you'd need three levels of Paladin of Devotion)- but I reckon it's reasonably close.
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2019-09-07, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
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Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Oh it's been done already, doubtlessly countless times. But on the forums here, this is the only one I can find.
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2019-09-07, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-07, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Actually, according to the digital bonus content in Don't Split the Party, Rich did have plans to write up Dashing Swordsman as part of a larger OotS-based sourcebook. Though it's now very unlikely that he'll actually finish it.
Last edited by GrayGriffin; 2019-09-07 at 12:46 PM.
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2019-09-07, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
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2019-09-07, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
I wouldn't be surprised if Elan was among the highest level Bards in the world, but I doubt he's the highest. He's not a professional performer outside his adventuring, after all. I'd expect someone like Elton John, Sting, or Joan Jett to translate to a high level Bard in D&D terms and Elan isn't quite on their level. Nor is he on the level of Deadpool, who according to this video* is also a high level Bard in D&D terms. He's also not a God of Bards. But we do need someone to judge him against, and so far we don't have anyone like that. Then again, a high level Evil Bard villain is quite hard to pull off (but would be cool to see if done well).
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV7Ev7DobDc
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2019-09-07, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
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2019-09-07, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
The point is the transition from a mid-level to a high level character can seriously alter the set up of the battle. While a mid level support-oriented character might have some relevant skills for that point in the story to be a serious threat (think FFV's Blue Mage and Flamethrower/Thousand Needles/Aera), they might become vastly weaker at a later point without being basically a different class altogether or relying on a gimmick (traps that make fog everywhere, wind staff thing, etc.) instead of the class's own specialties. If the class runs out of viable offensive options by the time they become high-level, then it is complicated to give them a good fight without them being supporting a group of elite bodyguards instead (that Blue Mage has White Wind and Level 2 Old, but outside of Aeroga with an Air Knife and a few Level X skills they can't really do a lot of damage that a boss wouldn't be immune to like fractional damage or near-death blows).
Within a story like this, you don't want to have the boss be protected by a series of goons with no climatic battle with the actual person. It can be done well, but it is much much trickier than just having the villain be clashing swords with the hero while everyone fights the various assisting foes.
A Bard in particular is hard to do because you basically run into a dungeon and sing at people. That's a problem in of itself, and not exactly something you see someone doing as an antagonist unless they are charming people.Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-09-07 at 06:31 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-08, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Just make the Bard boss dabble in Necromancy. Call them the Necrodancer. What, you think a few dozen zombies are beneath you? How about when the Level 18 Necrodancer is using Dragonfire Inspiration to give the zombies something in the neighborhood of +12d6 Acid Damage to their attacks?
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2019-09-08, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
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2019-09-08, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
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Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Need a soundtrack? Not anymore you don't.
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2019-09-09, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Yeah, Elton John and Sting are high-level bards. But when they sing, does everyone on both sides of a huge battle stop to listen? Elan is not on Elton John's level, because he's far past it.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2019-09-09, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-09, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2019-09-10, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
So... would that make this another example of a high level bard in fiction then?
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2019-09-10, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Weirdly enough, in 5th Edition, Bards are freaking TERRIFYING. They have access to every skill AND every spell in the game, and their ability to double their proficiency bonus for certain skills, and add half their proficiency bonus to ANY check that doesn't already include it means that whatever they're bad at, they're good at, and whatever they're good at, they're AMAZING at. Particularly College of Lore, who can use their Inspiration to increase their bonus even more. When it comes to Skills, Bards crack the system wide open. But, even in 3rd Edition, I think Bards can work as villains: Just a different sort then the kind you see in dungeons. As villains, I think they work best not as physical threats inandofthemsleves, but as Mastermind/Planner types. The problem isn't fighting them: It's even getting to them when they're hidden behind layers of illusions, traps, and the guy you arrested could be a decoy. Think someone like Myserio or The Riddler: Sure, they're physical pushovers by themselves, but that's not the issue: The issue is even figuring out where they are, and then getting there. Or, hell, think the Joker to the Wizard's Batman. An insanely-charismatic madman who always has another trick up his sleeve, is willing to use every resource, especially people, and whose illusions and sheer insanity ensure you can't out-plan him because you don't know what his plan even is. A high-level Bard is the type of guy who will build a massive Ice-themed dungeon...Then plop a Red Dragon as the final boss, and kick back eating popcorn as you find yourself preparing for an entirely different opponent. So much for Protection From Energy when it's protecting you from Cold rather then Fire.
Last edited by woweedd; 2019-09-10 at 04:11 PM.
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2019-09-10, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
So...Tarquin, if he wasn't Elan's father and so showed himself immediately.
Bards as the archetype the class can be are good and work well since they make for good high-end villains, but in terms of dungeon bosses they tend to not work quite as well (especially in a solo boss or a boss with just a few minions) if they primarily make use of a Bard's talents.An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-11, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
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2019-09-11, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-16, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2019-09-16, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: An Odd Thought I had about Elan
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!