The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Now that sidekicks have been officially released in the Dragon of Icespire module, what are people's thoughts on the full release?

    Notable changes from the AU:

    • They cap at level 6 12 at the end of the Essentials Kit Divine Contention module).
    • The spell caster only has wizard and cleric spell lists (no bard, druid, sorcerer, warlock) and by level 6 only has 4 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots. By 12th level they have up to 4th level spells.
    • The spell caster spell selection is also pretty limited. The mage magical role only has sleep, burning hands, shield and invisibility for non-cantrips. The healer magical role has cure wounds, bless, shield of faith and aid.
    • The expert is a bit more simple, it lost Jack of Many Trades, but is still relatively similar. If they take the Help bonus action, the target receives an additional 1d6 that can be used on the hit or damage.


    * Edited, corrected the level cap, I should have finished reading the full essentials kit.
    Last edited by king_steve; 2019-09-03 at 03:18 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    I haven't been able to get my hands on the official release, but I'll say that knowing the few changes you listed here that I'm a bit disappointed.

    I had intended to use this as a way to run a Divinity:OS style of game with one player and 3 sidekicks. I really wanted to opt for sidekicks rather than NPC or other PC options to take a bit of burden off the player for having to manage 4 fully realized characters.

    They can still do that to an extent but capping at level 6 with such drastically reduced options (to an already simple chassis) looks like it wouldn't be viable to run a player through any campaign that goes past that level.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    I do not have this but I would wonder if for instance the level 6 restriction is done just for the module it is being written for.
    A vestige for me "Pyro火gnus Friend of Meepo" by Zaydos.

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    I'm almost 100% positive that they'll have a full release later. I don't know if they'll still suggest using any NPC of CR 1 or lower, like the UA did, but I don't see why they would stop at level 6 and never bother expanding that more, when they already did the work for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    I do not have this but I would wonder if for instance the level 6 restriction is done just for the module it is being written for.
    I have it (but haven't had a chance to run it yet), and it is.
    Last edited by rlc; 2019-09-03 at 02:56 PM.
    I usually post from my phone, so please excuse any horrendous typos.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 b4k4 View Post
    [to somebody getting upset over somebody else's house rule] Maybe you should take a break, you're getting rather worked up over magic elf games.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    They can still do that to an extent but capping at level 6 with such drastically reduced options (to an already simple chassis) looks like it wouldn't be viable to run a player through any campaign that goes past that level.
    I suppose you could always run the AU version of sidekicks. The Dragon of Icespire sidekicks seem a bit more simple, which maybe helpful to keep the emphasis on the PC's instead of sidekicks potentially outshining them.

    If you wanted to homebrew them to go to higher levels, how would you advance the sidekicks?

    The spellcasting sidekick seems to be getting spell levels at 1/2 the normal rate and has many fewer known spells.
    * Edit: This is wrong, I think the wording is confusing here.

    It appears they learn spell casting at the normal rate, but the leveling guide doesn't mention new spell slots of the same level.
    For example, the spellcasting sidekick lists:

    For 2nd level spellcasters:
    Spellcasting. The spellcaster learns another 1st-level spell: bless (healer) or burning hands (mage).
    For 3d level spellcasters:
    Spellcasting. The spellcaster gains one 1st-level spell slot. The spellcaster also learns another 1st-level spell: shield of faith (healer) or shield (mage).
    However, their stat block in the later modules shows the full spell list for their level (e.g. the level 11 mage sidekick has the same number of spell slots and levels as a lvl 11 wizard).

    * end edit

    The expert sidekick doesn't have as much utility as a rogue and is more specialized to sneaking, thieves tools and maybe acting as the 'face' if you wanted (they have +4 to performance and persuasion). They also get to take the help action as a bonus action and eventually get a second attack.

    The warrior is a very basic melee combatant. It gets second wind, improved critical and an extra attack but nothing else very helpful.


    I think the warrior sidekick has the least going for it, it could use something for the defender role (maybe sentinel?) or something to help it hit more for the attacker role (maybe gwm?).
    Last edited by king_steve; 2019-09-03 at 06:04 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Oh, I just realized that they have the sidekick's divided up for the different parts of the Essentials Kit.

    The Sidekicks do go up to 12th level.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Quote Originally Posted by king_steve View Post
    Oh, I just realized that they have the sidekick's divided up for the different parts of the Essentials Kit.

    The Sidekicks do go up to 12th level.
    In that case, they keep up for most published campaigns. I'm alright with that.

    I'm still disappointed to see that their abilities were limited further but they wouldn't really be "sidekicks" if they were just as good as a PC.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    I'm just going to keep using the UA version, personally. At least until the rules up to level 20 are released, then I'll make my decision after that.
    I usually post from my phone, so please excuse any horrendous typos.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 b4k4 View Post
    [to somebody getting upset over somebody else's house rule] Maybe you should take a break, you're getting rather worked up over magic elf games.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Looking at the two lists side by side.

    Warrior sidekick has the following changes:
    • Pick Attack (+2 to attack) or Defender (protection fighting style) role.
    • Lost Danger Sense


    Expert sidekick has the following changes:
    • Lost jack of many trades


    Spell casting sidekick has the following changes:
    • Only 2 spell list choices (cleric for the healer and wizard for the mage).
    • Lost magical recovery.


    The spell list for the mage is:

    Cantrips (at will): fire bolt, light, mage hand, minor illusion, shocking grasp
    1st level (4 slots): burning hands, shield, sleep
    2nd level (3 slots): flaming sphere, invisibility
    3rd level (3 slots): fireball, fly
    4th level (3 slot): polymorph, wall of fire
    5th level (2 slots): cone of cold, hold monster
    6th level (1 slot): chain lightning

    The spell list for the healer is:

    Cantrips (at will): guidance, light, resistance, sacred flame, spare the dying
    1st level (4 slots): bless, cure wounds, shield of faith
    2nd level (3 slots): aid, lesser restoration
    3rd level (3 slots): protection from energy, revivify
    4th level (3 slots): banishment, death ward
    5th level (2 slots): greater restoration, mass cure wounds
    6th level (1 slot): heal

    The current set of stats only go to level 12.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Where are you finding the rules for sidekicks from levels 7 through 12? I can only find 1 through 6 in Appendix A of the Essential Rules booklet that was included.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorel View Post
    Where are you finding the rules for sidekicks from levels 7 through 12? I can only find 1 through 6 in Appendix A of the Essential Rules booklet that was included.
    On D&D Beyond they have the:

    Storm Lord's Wrath for levels 7-9.
    Sleeping Dragon's Wake for levels 9-11.
    Divine Contention for levels 11-12.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Sidekick rules from Dragons of Icespire

    Quote Originally Posted by king_steve View Post
    On D&D Beyond they have the:

    Storm Lord's Wrath for levels 7-9.
    Sleeping Dragon's Wake for levels 9-11.
    Divine Contention for levels 11-12.
    Slightly off topic, does anyone know if the beyond codes in the essentials kit covers those missions as well? The sources I have found have been very ambiguous about it?

    Edit: Seems like they are ? https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/08/26...-9th-and-11th/
    Last edited by Fnissalot; 2019-09-04 at 09:52 AM.

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