The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Default Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    So, Nintendo dropped a few big surprises on anyone who's a Smash Brothers fan in today's Nintendo Direct. First and most importantly, the third DLC character, Banjo and Kazooie, are being released later today! If you want to play as the classic Bear and Bird duo, you'll be able to very soon - if it's anything like Joker and the Hero's releases, the patch for them will be up maybe three to four hours from now. And there goes my weekend, basically.
    Edit: And it was up even faster than I expected - the patch and Banjo are now available!

    They followed the Direct with a gameplay presentation recorded by Sakurai showing off the duo's moves (which look great, pretty much all from their original games), the Spiral Mountain stage (which also looks great), the music (which is 7 remixes and three songs straight from the original games) and a couple of additional things the patch is bringing. Namely, the Home-Run Contest mode is returning, with much cooler visuals than it's ever had before as you'll now knock the sand bag into space before it comes back down, and some Mii Fighters stuff. First, a nice change is that Mii Fighters that you download after this patch will be able to have their special moves edited, which you couldn't do before, so you can grab any one whose look you like and set it up with the move loadout you'd prefer, which I greatly appreciate personally. Second, five more Mii costumes are releasing: Team Rocket from Pokémon as a brawler costume, Proto Man and Zero from Mega Man as gunner and swordfighter costumes respectively, and two surprise guests in the form of Goemon from Mystical Ninja as a swordfighter costume and Sans from Undertale as a gunner costume. That last I know will disappoint some people who were hoping for him to be one of the DLC fighters though. Personally, I'm just happy to see the Proto Man and Zero costumes, and will definitely grab those.

    Oh, and if you have an X-Box One, apparently the original Banjo-Kazooie will be out for that (I presume as a downloadable) today, so grab that if you want it.

    Second, the fourth DLC character was announced, though he's unlikely to make as big of a splash with most people as some of the others. Terry Bogard, from Fatal Fury (which I'd honestly never heard of) and King of Fighters, is our next newcomer, with November as his release window. Honestly, he's the first one I'm not interested in personally, but I'm actually fine with that, since it means I was right not to buy the full Fighters Pass and instead pick characters up individually. After three in a row that I was definitely getting, I was actually starting to wonder if I'd regret that.

    Finally, they actually also announced that there will be more DLC characters after the initial set of five is finished. Currently that's basically all we know though, they didn't indicate how many, or give much of any clue about who they may be. Though Sakurai indicated at the end of the Banjo gameplay presentation that they'd be bringing "more game worlds" into Smash Brothers, so it may be that they will continue to focus on third-party guests over any newcomers from Nintendo series. Still, he wasn't very specific about it, and said that the whole goal was pleasing the fans, so maybe people who wanted to see Waluigi, or folks like me who want other assist trophies promoted like Isaac, could have some small hope that they'll be among this additional DLC.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-09-04 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    I'm actually totally fine with a sans Mii costume. I'll be sure to get it for my sans Mii that already exists. though personally my fantasy would be to go online and kill all the sans-wannabes with one of my other mii, CHARA, a green swordsman. =) I just don't feel like paying a subscription for that.

    but yeah, Team Rocket costume is great as well. not particularly interested in the fighters released so far honestly. though I'm interested in seeing what else they cram into this clown car next.
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    I've been absolutely losing my freaking mind, preaching at people at work about how much I'm geeking out about all this. So amazingly hype.

    ...I wonder how many people on the forum play Smash Ultimate online....
    You can call me anything. I've been called Inkin, Nono, INo, Names, and NoKnow so far.

    "You gotta enjoy life while you still can." is what I keep telling myself.

    I'm on Workman's Comp for (edit: Confirmed, 4 weeks before I'm even allowed on light duty, and still not allowed to put weight on my messed up leg). Enough time for me to get back into gaming and get my life on schedule. Here's hoping for some good game and lucky dice!

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    I've been absolutely losing my freaking mind, preaching at people at work about how much I'm geeking out about all this. So amazingly hype.

    ...I wonder how many people on the forum play Smash Ultimate online....
    I certainly do. Just spent the last couple of hours doing just that, after a run through Classic Mode with Banjo and doing the Banjo-Kazooie spirit board section. There were a lot of Banjo mirrors, but I am very fine with that. (I'm actually a little surprised it took me a full four fights to find one in the first place, but then the floodgates opened.)

    The Bear and Bird are going to take some getting used to though, I must say. It feels like they reversed their forward and back air attacks - back air is a quick multi-hit rat-a-tat-rap and not as potent for killing as most characters', while forward air is a fairly slow but quite powerful punch. But unlike the other characters I play with kind of slow forward airs (Ike, Dedede) it doesn't have a lot of range on it to help compensate. Neutral air is good, but also not a ton of range, so it's hard for it to take forward air's place. So I often feel like I want my back turned to the opponent when I'm in the air to make use of that back air.

    It feels like the egg shot and grenade egg will be quite important to their game plan. Controlling space with those moves feels like one of their stronger traits, with the odd arcs and bounces they get, and they don't have much recovery, so you can kind of throw them out whenever. They're kind of reminiscent of Mario's fireballs/pills that way, actually. Picking up the grenade egg to throw it needs to be done very quick though, with the short fuse those are on, so opponents often see that you're going for it and get out of the way.

    The other important part of their game plan: Wanderwing. Wow, that is a potent move. Quick, invincible (though not from frame 1, I both interrupted some as they started and had mine interrupted on startup a few times), and one of their stronger kill moves to boot. Great for punishing things you might normally only be able to dash attack or dash up and grab. Just don't get predictable, because the opponent can punish on block - though most probably won't get a smash attack unless you spaced it very badly with how far it will travel past them, they'll have to run after you for a dash attack, grab, or special move, maybe a fast enough tilt. And of course you need to watch how many you use, since you only get five gold feathers per stock, and the move becomes useless once they're out.

    One point of disappointment though: their throw game seems weak. Down throw is a bury, but you can mash out of it crazy fast even at high percents - I'm not sure how high you need to be to start guaranteeing things, but I was mashing out before people could hit me even at 120% tonight, and failing to get jab as a follow-up even at around 80% myself. So, really hope that gets buffed later on, because it feels near useless as-is. Forward throw is typical meh throw you'll just use at the ledge to get people offstage. Up throw I was trying to get combos off of but I'm not sure if any were true, I was trying to connect up or neutral air after it, but getting inconsistent results, so it may just have been opponents not reacting fast enough to avoid the follow-up - or maybe I was just messing up the timing, hard to say. Back throw is a reasonable kill throw, but not super powerful.

    Still, definitely having a lot of fun with them. I'm so happy to finally have them in Smash Brothers - and it's great hearing that music again, too. I'm particularly happy that one of the non-remixed ones is Freezezy Peak, that's always been one of my favorites.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-09-04 at 10:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    I've enjoyed Banjo and Kazooie, did Classic mode and their Spirit board. Certainly interesting and fun to play and a little less zany than the Hero which is nice.

    Utterly and totally not down with Terry, just a boring pick to my mind but I get why they picked him. He is fairly iconic especially in Japan where his game series was much more popular than it ever got in the States. That leaves us with the final one of this DLC batch. I'm really curious who it'll be, considering the curve balls they threw in with the other four. Joker, DQ Hero and Banjo of all people...and Terry....were not people I expected.

    I for one am glad we did not get Steve, From Minecraft, the Doom Grunt or Ryu. I'd rather have Terry than any of those three.


    We sorta predicted more DLC characters were coming as well. I've had a lot of fun with the game, I'll spring for the next batch as well most likely. I'd really like to see them open it to a vote. Let the people decide the next few people. Barring that. I want Waluigi. After that I don't really care who we get. It'd be cool to give us some big named Indie characters. Cuphead, the Knight from Hollow Knight, Shantae (who isn't really Indie but close enough), Shovel Knight would just...that would just make my life. There's a ton of names to pull from on that.

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I for one am glad we did not get Steve, From Minecraft, the Doom Grunt or Ryu. I'd rather have Terry than any of those three.
    Hey, if you're talking about Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden, that'd be freaking hype. A ton of material for an awesome moveset, and a fast epic gameplay. I could see MKLeo giving him a shot.

    Hell, with how far the DLC has been pushed for this game, I'm ready to legit put money down on Solaire (Dark Souls), Dante (Devil May Cry), or even, as was revealed today, Tracer (Overwatch). After all, we just got Banjo & Kazooie, and Sans the Skeleton. Anything can happen in the wacky world of Nintendo now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I certainly do. Just spent the last couple of hours doing just that, after a run through Classic Mode with Banjo and doing the Banjo-Kazooie spirit board section.
    I feel a little bad to trim your message, because I -am- legit curious about the moveset analysis. I only had time to play Banjo's Classic Mode (got a 9.9 on my first attempt with no Coupon! Woot!), and while I suspect Banjo to be an upper-mid tier character, I don't have a lick of experience to be able to make that call.

    However, the fact that you play online means I am compelled to ask you, internet allowing, if you'd be willing to humor me in a match some time soon (except for Friday, because hospital day is Friday). I've been itching to Smash for a while, and it just occurred to me how silly it is that I never considered checking the forum for other Smashers. (Seriously, my face when I read your first words. XD)

    You know what mystifies me? This character was minutes old earlier today, and peeps were still like "Yo, I've never even touched him. LET'S USE HIM IN OUR LOCAL TOURNAMENTS ON STREAM." Like, that's nuts. Nuts in a good way, but absolutely bonkers.
    Last edited by INoKnowNames; 2019-09-05 at 03:14 AM.
    You can call me anything. I've been called Inkin, Nono, INo, Names, and NoKnow so far.

    "You gotta enjoy life while you still can." is what I keep telling myself.

    I'm on Workman's Comp for (edit: Confirmed, 4 weeks before I'm even allowed on light duty, and still not allowed to put weight on my messed up leg). Enough time for me to get back into gaming and get my life on schedule. Here's hoping for some good game and lucky dice!

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Wait, what was revealed about Tracer? That Overwatch is coming to the Switch? I haven't seen anything other than rampant rumors about Tracer and Smash Brothers. Considering all the other rumors about all the other characters coming to the game...consider me not at all convinced. Not one person guessed Terry that I know of. That makes all rumors moot in my eyes.

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Wait, what was revealed about Tracer? That Overwatch is coming to the Switch?
    Overwatch was leaked for the Switch, as was SNK's presence in Smash. And while some people thought "Metal Slug", other people thought "Fatal Fury". It is a bit of a mixed bag.

    But my thought process, in regards to potential 3rd Party Characters, is whether or not they or their franchise has had a presence on a Nintendo Console somewhere in their history. Snake and Sonic have had Gamecube Games, there's been plenty of Final Fantasy from back in the day to justify Cloud, Megaman, and Ryu, Bayonetta 2 got produced -by- Nintendo for the WiiU, Persona's been pretty popular throughout Nintendo's Handhelds (at least the Megami Tensei series has, which Persona is apart of). Undertale got released for the Switch within at least the last year, so Enter Sans. And of course, Banjo and Donkey Kong go -way- back.

    So, I'm under the assumption that if a character's franchise has been represented on Nintendo Hardware, that makes them a viable candidate to be playable. Dark Souls Remastered got put on the Switch. So did Devil May Cry Remastered. And Overwatch got announced on the Switch *today* (well, yesterday, but still). That makes the protags from each of those games plausible characters. After all, is Solaire of Astora really more ridiculous than Piranha Plant fighting Cloud Strife? Is Ryu Hayabusa a more overpowered and over-the-top option than Persona-5 Joker? Would Tracer's Butt be that much more outlandish than Bayonetta's? Or Snakes?

    We live in a world where Sans the Skeleton can fight the Duck Hunt Dog and Pacman, Bayonetta was underpowered next to Pichu, and Microsoft was advertising for Nintendo's publicity to show off a character. Anything can happen, and I think that's freaking fantastic.
    Last edited by INoKnowNames; 2019-09-05 at 04:25 AM.
    You can call me anything. I've been called Inkin, Nono, INo, Names, and NoKnow so far.

    "You gotta enjoy life while you still can." is what I keep telling myself.

    I'm on Workman's Comp for (edit: Confirmed, 4 weeks before I'm even allowed on light duty, and still not allowed to put weight on my messed up leg). Enough time for me to get back into gaming and get my life on schedule. Here's hoping for some good game and lucky dice!

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    That leaves us with the final one of this DLC batch. I'm really curious who it'll be, considering the curve balls they threw in with the other four. Joker, DQ Hero and Banjo of all people...and Terry....were not people I expected.
    Likewise. Though to be fair, Dragon Quest's hero is one that makes complete sense to me as one that I'm sure the Japanese fan base was highly interested in, so that wasn't quite so much of a curve ball. Banjo wouldn't be either except that I'd figured his series being long dead with no apparent prospects of returning and being owned by Microsoft would mean that no matter how much people wanted him, he'd never happen. Joker and Terry are the two totally out of left field ones for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I for one am glad we did not get Steve, From Minecraft, the Doom Grunt or Ryu. I'd rather have Terry than any of those three.
    I wouldn't count them out yet, with still more coming. Particularly the new ones - the initial five they supposedly had decided who they'd be before the game even came out, but for this new batch they could potentially be drawing specifically from names that they saw a lot of people hoping for after the initial DLC announcement for all we know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    We sorta predicted more DLC characters were coming as well. I've had a lot of fun with the game, I'll spring for the next batch as well most likely. I'd really like to see them open it to a vote. Let the people decide the next few people. Barring that. I want Waluigi. After that I don't really care who we get. It'd be cool to give us some big named Indie characters. Cuphead, the Knight from Hollow Knight, Shantae (who isn't really Indie but close enough), Shovel Knight would just...that would just make my life. There's a ton of names to pull from on that.
    Personally, I think that who I want depends on what kind of characters we're getting from the DLC.

    Third-party: There's really just one that's really left on my wish list here at this point, and other suggestions are just "this could be fun" thoughts.
    - Dante, from Devil May Cry, is that big one. Because Smash has brought us dream matchups like Mario vs Sonic and Link vs Cloud, so let's add Dante vs Bayonetta to that list. Get the king and queen of action games together in the same game at last. Also, Devil May Cry 5 was amazing and I would love to see Dante's weapons from that game be the basis of a Smash moveset. Go all-out with it, letting him switch weapons as his down special, changing most/all of his moveset in the process, so you can fully utilize all of those awesome weapons. Plus of course Sin Devil Trigger's supernova move for a Final Smash.
    - A more minor want of mine would be a "Tales" series protagonist, particularly if it were Yuri Lowell or Velvet Crowe, but that seems unlikely I would think. More likely if we got one it would be Lloyd Irving, since Symphonia is still a well-remembered game among a decent chunk of the Smash fan base, and I'd probably like that too, but it wouldn't be as exciting for me now as it would have been back in the Gamecube era when I was a huge fan of that game. It's just since been eclipsed for me by others in its series.
    - Another idea that I like despite not being a big fan of the franchise is Maximilian Dood's oft-repeated suggestion of Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Because again, dream matchups, let's get Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter in here. And Sub-Zero seems like the best fit for Smash out of MK, you can do cool stuff with his ice powers without needing to get gory. Could maybe even given him a "fatality" Final Smash where he freezes someone solid and then breaks the ice statue into pieces, since there's no gore involved there.
    - And hey, we got Banjo from Microsoft, why not go totally crazy and pull in someone from Sony? Bring in Kratos from God of War if you want to see everyone's jaws collectively hit the floor as fast and hard as they did when Cloud was revealed.

    Nintendo (assist trophy promotions): This is what I'd prefer if we're getting first-party additions, generally, since most of the first-party characters I still want have been relegated to assist trophy status.
    - In this case, Waluigi is obviously the first choice. I don't want him myself, but for whatever reason clearly a lot of people do.
    - Second, I'd hope, would be my first choice, Isaac from Golden Sun. Also seems more heavily requested than I would have assumed, and I would be eager to see him actually finally see the light of day again. (If only Camelot hadn't dropped the ball with Dark Dawn...)
    - After those two, my hopes (in order of preference) would be Lyn, Midna, and Krystal. (Zero and Knuckles would also be on that list, but my assumption is that them being Mii costume DLC probably means they wouldn't even get considered.)

    Nintendo (new): Seems like the least likely possibility to me personally, but there's one standout for what I'd want if it happens.
    - Fire Emblem: Three Houses characters. Yeah, I don't care that it'd upset the people who think there's too many Fire Emblem characters already, Three Houses has proven to be the best game in the damn franchise and has its best lead characters, so I totally want to see them in Smash. Byleth, Edelgard, Claude, Dimitri, give me any or all them.
    - Outside of them, hm... Dixie Kong still feels like the biggest omission who isn't an Assist Trophy to me. Maybe they'd do that Xenoblade 2 character that they just did a Mii costume of in the first Fighters Pass because his game hadn't been announced before they decided on the original DLC lineup. Beyond that, hard for me to guess or say, it feels like the big options are all pretty much there already to me, either in playable or assist trophy form.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    I feel a little bad to trim your message, because I -am- legit curious about the moveset analysis. I only had time to play Banjo's Classic Mode (got a 9.9 on my first attempt with no Coupon! Woot!), and while I suspect Banjo to be an upper-mid tier character, I don't have a lick of experience to be able to make that call.

    However, the fact that you play online means I am compelled to ask you, internet allowing, if you'd be willing to humor me in a match some time soon (except for Friday, because hospital day is Friday). I've been itching to Smash for a while, and it just occurred to me how silly it is that I never considered checking the forum for other Smashers. (Seriously, my face when I read your first words. XD)
    Oh, sure. I should be able to play sometime this weekend. Just let me know when's good for you. Fair warning though, I don't have the voice chat ap Nintendo made to replace having actual voice chat in their games, so it would just be playing the matches.

    Edit: Also, what's your preferred rules? I tend to play with the typical 3 stock, 7 minutes, no items, Battlefield during random online matches, but I'm open to a lot more for friendly arena matches. Particularly as far as stages go, I can honestly go with random Hazards Off stages happily if I can disable the stages that remain obnoxious even with hazards technically off.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    You know what mystifies me? This character was minutes old earlier today, and peeps were still like "Yo, I've never even touched him. LET'S USE HIM IN OUR LOCAL TOURNAMENTS ON STREAM." Like, that's nuts. Nuts in a good way, but absolutely bonkers.
    Oh sure, they did that with the others too. I even saw footage of people using Piranha Plant at tournaments on Youtube like the day after he came out. It's that new character hype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Wait, what was revealed about Tracer? That Overwatch is coming to the Switch? I haven't seen anything other than rampant rumors about Tracer and Smash Brothers. Considering all the other rumors about all the other characters coming to the game...consider me not at all convinced. Not one person guessed Terry that I know of. That makes all rumors moot in my eyes.
    Terry was actually leaked in the few days before he was announced. First by Nintendo accidentally uploading a listing for the 4th DLC character that, while it didn't name him, did include the fact that it would be an SNK character, which left a fairly short list of likely options to pick from, with him at the top. Then the one existing credible Smash Ultimate leaker confirmed that it was him about a day after that happened.

    That said, there's no such credible information about anyone else at this time. Speculation about an Overwatch character is entirely driven by Smash Brothers' online fandom looking at every new game that comes to the Switch and going "does this mean someone from that will be Smash DLC?!" Seriously, it's a broken record that way. It's a sign of just how unpredictable the Smash DLC really is, honestly - nobody can figure out a pattern to latch onto to decide who might be likely or not anymore, so almost anyone in video games is a candidate. Which is kind of cool in a way.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-09-05 at 11:26 PM.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    - In this case, Waluigi is obviously the first choice. I don't want him myself, but for whatever reason clearly a lot of people do.
    Because he is a meme. Thats the only reason why. and I don't think its ever going to happen, since he is already an assist trophy. Like at this point, if someone like Daisy or a freaking Piranha Plant is chosen over him, I don't think he is ever making it. what would he even be other than an echo fighter or moveset variant of luigi or wario? pretty sure Sakurai wants to do more interesting things than make another mario variant when an opportunity like Ultimate probably won't ever come again, while a theoretical next smash game could have Waluigi all they want when other characters can't be brought in again.
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Third-party: There's really just one that's really left on my wish list here at this point, and other suggestions are just "this could be fun" thoughts.
    - Dante, from Devil May Cry, is that big one. Because Smash has brought us dream matchups like Mario vs Sonic and Link vs Cloud, so let's add Dante vs Bayonetta to that list. Get the king and queen of action games together in the same game at last. Also, Devil May Cry 5 was amazing and I would love to see Dante's weapons from that game be the basis of a Smash moveset. Go all-out with it, letting him switch weapons as his down special, changing most/all of his moveset in the process, so you can fully utilize all of those awesome weapons. Plus of course Sin Devil Trigger's supernova move for a Final Smash.
    This is one people have been clamouring for. I totally get it, and I wouldn't be surprised or annoyed that he got in. I don't really have strong feelings for DMC or the character either way but he is popular and well loved so that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    - A more minor want of mine would be a "Tales" series protagonist, particularly if it were Yuri Lowell or Velvet Crowe, but that seems unlikely I would think. More likely if we got one it would be Lloyd Irving, since Symphonia is still a well-remembered game among a decent chunk of the Smash fan base, and I'd probably like that too, but it wouldn't be as exciting for me now as it would have been back in the Gamecube era when I was a huge fan of that game. It's just since been eclipsed for me by others in its series.
    I'd totally be down to seeing Lloyd in Smash and it is a little weird that Tales isn't represented at all. I loved Symphonia as well, so I'm biased here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    - Another idea that I like despite not being a big fan of the franchise is Maximilian Dood's oft-repeated suggestion of Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Because again, dream matchups, let's get Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter in here. And Sub-Zero seems like the best fit for Smash out of MK, you can do cool stuff with his ice powers without needing to get gory. Could maybe even given him a "fatality" Final Smash where he freezes someone solid and then breaks the ice statue into pieces, since there's no gore involved there.
    Yeah, this is the one I see the least likely happening. Between the difference in tone and general playstyles...I just don't really see anything from Mortal Kombat getting into the game. Sub-Zero would probably be the pick though, if they were going to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    - And hey, we got Banjo from Microsoft, why not go totally crazy and pull in someone from Sony? Bring in Kratos from God of War if you want to see everyone's jaws collectively hit the floor as fast and hard as they did when Cloud was revealed.
    This one is on the same level as MK. We got Banjo because Banjo is one of the most iconic N64 era characters. Microsoft owns the IP now, they'd have been fools not to give it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Nintendo (assist trophy promotions): This is what I'd prefer if we're getting first-party additions, generally, since most of the first-party characters I still want have been relegated to assist trophy status.
    - In this case, Waluigi is obviously the first choice. I don't want him myself, but for whatever reason clearly a lot of people do.
    - Second, I'd hope, would be my first choice, Isaac from Golden Sun. Also seems more heavily requested than I would have assumed, and I would be eager to see him actually finally see the light of day again. (If only Camelot hadn't dropped the ball with Dark Dawn...)
    - After those two, my hopes (in order of preference) would be Lyn, Midna, and Krystal. (Zero and Knuckles would also be on that list, but my assumption is that them being Mii costume DLC probably means they wouldn't even get considered.)
    They better include Waluigi, I'll riot. Not just because it's a meme, as Raza would like to put forth. I mean, it surely is, but at this point I think it's more than that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    - Fire Emblem: Three Houses characters. Yeah, I don't care that it'd upset the people who think there's too many Fire Emblem characters already, Three Houses has proven to be the best game in the damn franchise and has its best lead characters, so I totally want to see them in Smash. Byleth, Edelgard, Claude, Dimitri, give me any or all them.
    I think we can be all but certain at least one person from Three Houses is getting in. My bets are on Edelgard if only because release hype was centered around her. The tides seem to be shifting now that a lot of people have gone through a path or two. Golden Deer seem to be getting more popular so we might see Claude. Byleth would be equally likely since they're the MC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    They better include Waluigi, I'll riot. Not just because it's a meme, as Raza would like to put forth. I mean, it surely is, but at this point I think it's more than that.
    I mean.....

    I'm sure you can make the argument that he is the only main mario universe character not to be a fighter? We got: Mario, Luigi, Wario, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Daisy, Piranha Plant, technically Toad is apart of Peach and Daisy as fighters, Rosalina and Luma, Dr. Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool....I guess he is the only person left that is from something like Mario Party, but at this rate I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to continue ignoring him and just go find some random character from an obscure Mario game that no one remembers and give them the invite instead just to have an interesting move set. or do the same thing he did with Sans and give them a Waluigi mii costume.

    but whatever, I have no real predictions for who gets the invite next. If I were choosing it, I would just go to Skyrim and give Miraak the invite because the Dovahkiin is too mii-like to work, then design his weird tentacle and shout themed moveset utilizing his sword and staff, complete with a summit of apocrypha stage, just as a crazy unknown out of left field pick that would throw people for a loop. I doubt it will ever happen though.
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    Shantae and Waluigi are the only two I really want in the game at this point. Shantae because her animations would be smooth as hell, who doesn't want to see her dancing in full 3D? No one should, that's who. I'm a red blooded gay dude and I want to see it. Her Transformation magic would be killer as Specials and her hair attacks would fit well for regular and Smash attacks.


    Waluigi doesn't have to be an Echo or anything either. They invented a move set for Wario not really connected to his games. They can do so for his baddie in crime as well. Wario is such a disappointment for me, not having any sort of callback to Mario Land 3. Where's his Dragon Hat or Jet Hat? His shoulder charge? Such wasted opportunity.

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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Super excited about Terry being in. He was the first game character I ever cosplayed as at a convention. He's my favorite Fighting game character of all time. And hell his first games were all on the Super Nintendo as well so it has a lot going on there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Because he is a meme. Thats the only reason why. and I don't think its ever going to happen, since he is already an assist trophy. Like at this point, if someone like Daisy or a freaking Piranha Plant is chosen over him, I don't think he is ever making it. what would he even be other than an echo fighter or moveset variant of luigi or wario? pretty sure Sakurai wants to do more interesting things than make another mario variant when an opportunity like Ultimate probably won't ever come again, while a theoretical next smash game could have Waluigi all they want when other characters can't be brought in again.
    Gameplay-wise you'd obviously base his moveset on him using a bunch of things from the Mario Sports/Party games, since those are the only ones he exists in. Give him that tennis racket his assist trophy uses, probably a move that uses dice in some way for the Mario Party reference, maybe a side-B that uses a Mario Kart, etc. That's not really an issue in my mind. I just personally think he's too minor and boring of a character to bother myself. He literally exists only as roster filler for those spin-off games, having been created to give Wario a doubles partner for the Tennis games and just been re-used consistently in the others since; and his entire character is just "Wario, but tall and skinny," which is really dull in my mind. But hey, he'd make a lot of people happy, that's pretty clear at this point, so, sure, if they're going to promote any assist trophies, may as well do him first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Yeah, this is the one I see the least likely happening. Between the difference in tone and general playstyles...I just don't really see anything from Mortal Kombat getting into the game. Sub-Zero would probably be the pick though, if they were going to do that.
    I could have said similar things about Bayonetta in the past, or Persona for that matter, yet here we are. We've even gotten Cloud, and despite Final Fantasy's legacy with Nintendo he's clearly better known as a Playstation character, and I believe the only Nintendo game he'd been in before he was added to Smash was that weird GBA Kingdom Hearts title. At this point, I totally think that Sub-Zero is within the realm of possibility. How likely he may be is pretty hard to say, because it's hard to say how likely almost anyone is, but I can't honestly say he seems too out there compared to what we've already got.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    This one is on the same level as MK. We got Banjo because Banjo is one of the most iconic N64 era characters. Microsoft owns the IP now, they'd have been fools not to give it up.
    To be clear, Kratos is indeed one that I think is pretty unlikely (though at this point I'm not writing even one as remote as him off completely), he was more of a pie-in-the-sky type of suggestion of something that would be cool no matter the odds. Though I should say, no, Microsoft could totally have said no to Banjo being in Smash. It's doubtful they'll gain too much from it aside from whatever cut of the DLC revenue they're getting, after all, and they could have decided they didn't want to help a competitor with an IP they own like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I think we can be all but certain at least one person from Three Houses is getting in. My bets are on Edelgard if only because release hype was centered around her. The tides seem to be shifting now that a lot of people have gone through a path or two. Golden Deer seem to be getting more popular so we might see Claude. Byleth would be equally likely since they're the MC.
    I think we can be sure at least one will get into a future Smash game, but Ultimate is more up in the air I feel. Specifically because it's entirely believable that they may just keep sticking to third-party guests for the DLC, seeing that as the best way to sell it, and potentially even attract people who don't already play Smash. Or if they do any more Nintendo characters it could totally just be Waluigi due to the outcry people had over him, or him plus another assist trophy or two that people have asked for, rather than doing to another Fire Emblem character after seeing the Smash fanbase's sour reaction to Corrin.

    As far as who we might get if we get someone, my money would be on Byleth first and foremost as the player character (since her whip-sword means there's no concern about her being like the other swordfighters), maybe Edelgard due to her popularity. But honestly, I would take anyone. Having played Golden Deer and Black Eagle, I like Claude and Edelgard basically equally, and am totally good with Byleth. Haven't played Blue Lions yet so I'd be lying if I said Dimitri would be equally exciting to me right now, but I will certainly have played it by the time we see any new Smash announcements and the game's track record leads me to believe I'll likely like him as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Shantae and Waluigi are the only two I really want in the game at this point. Shantae because her animations would be smooth as hell, who doesn't want to see her dancing in full 3D? No one should, that's who. I'm a red blooded gay dude and I want to see it. Her Transformation magic would be killer as Specials and her hair attacks would fit well for regular and Smash attacks.
    I have a friend who's been hoping to see Shantae as one of the DLC characters, so I'd be fairly happy with that myself. And honestly, I've been meaning to try her later games sometime - the only one I've tried was the very first, which I found a little awkward, but her series in theory seems like one I'd like. Just need to find time for it someday. Which is definitely not anytime soon, with Smash, Fire Emblem, and Astral Chain competing for my limited gaming time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Gameplay-wise you'd obviously base his moveset on him using a bunch of things from the Mario Sports/Party games, since those are the only ones he exists in. Give him that tennis racket his assist trophy uses, probably a move that uses dice in some way for the Mario Party reference, maybe a side-B that uses a Mario Kart, etc. That's not really an issue in my mind. I just personally think he's too minor and boring of a character to bother myself. He literally exists only as roster filler for those spin-off games, having been created to give Wario a doubles partner for the Tennis games and just been re-used consistently in the others since; and his entire character is just "Wario, but tall and skinny," which is really dull in my mind. But hey, he'd make a lot of people happy, that's pretty clear at this point, so, sure, if they're going to promote any assist trophies, may as well do him first.
    Also dancing. He was the kickoff for DDR: Mario Mix, so that could be incorporated. But, really, bombs seems to be his calling card (Bombs for his dance, bombs for Waluigi Island in Mario Party, Bombs in Double Dash as his special)… so, that could be something.

    (I personally like Waluigi just because he's such a flat insignificant character that people can have a lot of fun with him when they put him in games - like his weird habit of pulling roses out when he wins in Mario Party 8. But, I get that there's not really a whole lot to pull from, so the likelihood is remaining an Assist forever.)

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    In terms of which newcomer was the biggest curve-ball, I'd say it would be Banjo. But not because no one wanted him; lots of people wanted him since Melee, since missing joining in the 64 alongside Donkey Kong. The reason I never saw him coming was because of Rare being owned by Microsoft, and not thinking they'd be like "Yeah, let's ****in' do it!". Same reason, despite the fact that I would blow someone for the privilege, I think everyone wishing for Sora is wasting their time. Final Fantasy adjacent character who also has Disney's strings in him. You gotta get a lot of big-wigs on board to make that happen.

    Joker, funny enough, I freaking called back during the Demo where we could go win our hats and stuff. I called his Gun Play and movement being like Bayonetta, with summoning Personas for Special Moves or his Final Smash or what not, and citing the series having had (if at least distant) representation on Nintendo Hardware before. Because that's what I think it comes down to. People assuming Master Chief or God of War or other AAA Game Mascots that belong to companies that haven't produced for a Nintendo Console, I'm not so sure about. And then you've got the folks that say things like Goku or Pepe or Bowsette for Smash, who I believe/usually find out are either children, naive, or intentionally ****-posting. (Seriously, one of my friends keeps getting frustrated at the "Non-Nintendoness" of the DLC while clinging to jokes, and the other earnestly expects Dragon Ball Super's Goku to be up soon because we've had DBZ Fighting Games, though he stops talking when I point out "Shrek Super-Slam" and "Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom" and stuff.)

    But then you've got characters like Sans, where Undertale (which got added to the Switch) was liked by quite a few and Toby Fox was super down for his inclusion. Shantae, who's also had quite a bit of game rep, and got promoted to being a Spirit (which is a freaking High-Honor in my opinion). Same with Shovel Knight. Even Rathalos being a Boss because of the Wii and handheld Monster Hunter Games makes sense to me and is also hype. Speaking of which, I'd also be down for a "Monster Hunter" character, specifically for those reasons. Using one of the flag-ship armor designs and wielding weapons for attacks based on the series. I could totally see that being a fun move-set, and the character's already got some connection, even if not entirely owned or linked, to Nintendo.

    So that's what I think it comes down to, personally. I'm not sure about Doom Marine (because I never got into Doom), and I don't think God of War has been anything but an outright Playstation Exclusive, but I'm legit willing to put money down on Solaire, or Dante, or even Tracer as a plausible long-shot at this point (though Blizzard is another case of "gotta get all the big-wigs involved satisfied before it happens"). We've already got Solid Snake vs Sonic the Hedgehog vs Ryu vs Cloud vs Bayonetta vs Joker vs Sword-Goku vs Sans-the-Skeleton. Can we say with any sort of certainty who can and can't get in anymore? (We can be reasonable about it, but who knows what could change in the future, really? Pretty sure Mario vs Sonic had some doubters, too...)

    If I can think of someone who has a Spirit but no other representation and deserves to be playable (and not counting Shantae), I'd love to see them do something with Tails. Unless they've already used him for a costume, having him be absent but having Knuckles and Shadow Assist Trophies seems suspicious. I don't believe Assist Trophies will be promoted to being playable within the same generation. Next generation, absolutely. That happened with Little Mac, and then happened with Isabelle. Waluigi has to be next on that list (and this ideology is my main argument to silence the aforementioned "memer-troll" friend), hopefully alongside Isaac, Midna, and Krystal. If there's someone I'd -LOVE- to see it happen with, it has to be Shadow. Give him a combination of Mewtwo's movement and attacks, Peach's float, and some of Sonic's properties, with Super Shadow Chaos Blast as his Final Smash. That'd be absolutely bonkers. And you could substitute Silver as his Assist Trophy, no problem.

    Dixie Kong's definitely a greatly missing Nintendo character (with or without Kiddy helping her, possibly featuring Tiny and Chunky as an alt-skin). As is, even though this makes some people cringe, Bandana-Dee. It's amazing how much that little guy has a following, but I'd absolutely root for the bugger. Kirby Powers are great for movesets, and he could have that Waddle-Dee-Army Final Smash that King Dedede lost back in Brawl. Aside from the aforementioned Assist Trophy Promotions, we could use another F-Zero Representative, I would love to see Dark Pit slightly less cloned from normal Pit (he had so many weapons he used in his level that could have been made into proper moves), to say nothing of the other dozen Kid Icarus characters that would make great fighters (my vote being on Hades, with Magnus resigned to being a returning Assist Trophy... unless they give him a Bayonetta like buff and let Dark Lord Gaol pop up for some of his Specials), Raiden from Metal Gear Rising would be awesome (though differentiating him from being Bayonetta with a Sword might take a bit of work, hehe...), and we could use an Octoling if it had different weapons (again, like Dark Pit). Otherwise, there's literally no one else that I can think of that comes to mind.

    On the subject of Waluigi, it really is that he's already technically in the game that I don't think he can be DLC. I have no problem putting him in the next game; Peach and Daisy swiped a few attacks (mainly their F-Smash) from side games; you'd just go all the way with all of the Non-Canon Party-Sports games for Waluigi. As for a "boring and minor character"...DID SOMEONE SAY PIRANHA PLANT!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Oh, sure. I should be able to play sometime this weekend. Just let me know when's good for you. Fair warning though, I don't have the voice chat ap Nintendo made to replace having actual voice chat in their games, so it would just be playing the matches.
    If enough people had online and wanted to play, I'd KILL for a Switch Discord Server, where we gather up to make rooms for Smash or Mario Kart and other games that come out. That'd be amazing. But I'll definitely let you know how surgery goes. If we had to fight in silence... well, Warriors can let our Fists do the Talking!
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Ok so safe bets aka things that have a good chance of getting included:

    Rex and Pyra (as much as I hate Pyra's design)
    Someone from three houses (alternatively maybe someone FE heroes?). In any case, really hope it's not Blyeth

    Maybe
    Tracer
    Monster Hunter Hunter
    Pokemon Sword n Shield Starter
    Someone from Shin Megami Tensei?
    Dante from DMC
    Someone from Sonic the Hedgehog

    Farshots:
    The main Character from Eiko

    And uh I dunno at this stage, I think near everyone that's popular enough is in?
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    Default Re: Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo-Kazooie releasing today! Plus a lot more news.

    Playing more Banjo tonight, feels like I'm getting a bit more of a hang of him. Bar none his best move is Wanderwing, I'm convinced of that. It just does everything - beats any enemy attacks as long as you do it early enough that you don't get hit out of the startup, does a solid 25%-ish damage from a strong hit and around 19% even from a weak one (from hitting particularly late with it), travels quite a distance either in the air or on the ground, and of course strong knockback that can kill once you get the enemy over 100%. Deciding when to use those gold feathers is absolutely key to getting wins with them - use the move too much and not only do you get predictable and punished for it, but you lose the move entirely, which hurts quite a bit. You have to watch for moments when you're sure the opponent is committing to something, or for opportunities to punish them when they're doing something laggy from what they think is a safe distance (hello, everyone who likes to just charge a smash attack near the ledge...), and pop it then. It actually helps makes them feel like a great counter to projectile-dependant characters like Samus or Mii Gunner, or even just ones with a projectile they really like to use like Wolf, since you can plow through their projectiles for a solid punish with kill potential five times per stock unless they're very careful not to get spammy or at all predictable about their use of them. Also good for chasing techs or predictable rolls. I actually think I get most of my kills with them off Wanderwing, so it's legitimately worrying when I use that last feather and don't have it anymore, especially if I'm on my last stock and thus am not getting any more at all.

    The eggs are great neutral tools too. The regular ones are more of a harassment tool than anything, but actually also clash with and negate most other projectiles too, so they can help keep you safe from things like Samus' missiles and charge shot pretty easily. (Also, don't use the Breegull Blaster, it sucks; just shoot a single egg at a time when using that move.) The grenade is great to pop out any time your back is turned to the opponent, or to send bouncing towards the ledge when they're trying to get back on the stage. Both are good for pestering them offstage if you don't want to jump out for an edgeguard attempt, too. Throwing the grenade egg around feels kind of eh due to the short fuse and need to take a second picking it up, but it can sometimes be handy to surprise an opponent with if you're usually not doing that.

    As far as normals go, their f-tilt and d-tilt seem to be their most useful grounded moves. F-tilt is very quick and has decent range (and seems pretty safe on shield), while d-tilt is slower but has pretty great range and higher damage/knockback, so just pick the one that's appropriate for whether you need speed or range at the moment. Up tilt doesn't seem great due to its extremely limited range and angle, though I have actually surprised myself by killing with it at like 130% once or twice, so at least it seems to have a good reward for actually landing it. As far as smash attacks go, f-smash has plenty of power and good range (even a bit above you on the early part of the swing), but is pretty slow, though thankfully less so than someone like Ike or Dedede, so it still feels pretty usable compared to the true big-boy f-smashes. U-smash is definitely the go-to for speed and is still fairly potent, but lacks horizontal range, so it's fairly situational, but good when those situations arise. D-smash feels like the weakest, and I don't use much - seems like it's mainly for when you want a smash attack with more speed than f-smash but more horizontal range than u-smash. Honestly though, their smash attacks take a back seat to Wanderwing, fair, offstage/near ledge bair, and back throw when it comes to killing tools, I feel. Oh, and jab's fine - doesn't seem special in any way, but gets the job done and decent damage if you're close and just need the fastest thing in your arsenal.

    As far as aerials go, I actually find myself using the eggs a lot when I need a fast forward move with range, since fair is so slow and nair lacks range. Fair is more for trying to get kills or as a follow-up to nair hits at low percents, while nair is a close-up pressure/damage-builder. When you can get your back turned though bair is just a solid all-around move. Uair is pretty handy in terms of range and speed, but kind of weak, so more of a damage-builder at low percents and a way to harass enemies trying to land than anything else. Dair, eh, it's a dive attack, has the usual uses and risks of one, so I don't find I use it much, but that's fine. It would be weird if Beak Bomb weren't in their moveset since it's such an iconic move of theirs.

    Sadly, I think my intial assessment of their throw game is pretty accurate. You really just want to use up throw and back throw most of the time. Up throw doesn't combo but does at least put them in a bad position you can take advantage of, and back throw kills at reasonable percentages, particularly if you catch them close to the ledge. Otherwise, eh, use forward throw if it gets them off-stage even though it's not very good overall, and just don't use down throw at all, it just sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    If I can think of someone who has a Spirit but no other representation and deserves to be playable (and not counting Shantae), I'd love to see them do something with Tails. Unless they've already used him for a costume,
    They have, actually. He was released as a Mii Gunner costume at the same time as Knuckles was put in as a Brawler costume, alongside Joker's release.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    I would love to see Dark Pit slightly less cloned from normal Pit (he had so many weapons he used in his level that could have been made into proper moves),
    I'm with you there - Uprising had so many cool weapons they could have handed him instead of just making him an echo. But again, not happening as DLC, definitely something that would be waiting for the next fully new game, if it ever happened at all.

    On a related note, I want a sequel to Uprising, damn it! It would be so great to have that on the Switch, where you'd actually have a damned second control stick for the aiming and camera, rather than needing to deal with the 3DS touch screen controls...

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    to say nothing of the other dozen Kid Icarus characters that would make great fighters (my vote being on Hades, with Magnus resigned to being a returning Assist Trophy... unless they give him a Bayonetta like buff and let Dark Lord Gaol pop up for some of his Specials),
    I've always been good with the idea of getting Hades, Medusa, or Viridi personally. Not betting on any of them at the moment though. I'm just happy to have Palutena - especially since she was like the first time ever that one of the characters I was most looking forward before a Smash game came out also turned out to be one of my favorites to play once I actually got my hands on her. Still is, too, she's in my top 3 favorites to play in this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    Raiden from Metal Gear Rising would be awesome (though differentiating him from being Bayonetta with a Sword might take a bit of work, hehe...),
    I would be very happy with that, but am definitely not betting on it. Much as I love Platinum Games and MGR, it just feels like there's surely so many others that would be picked long before he got looked at.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    On the subject of Waluigi, it really is that he's already technically in the game that I don't think he can be DLC.
    If they stick to what they said back when Assist Trophies were first introduced, yes, that'd be so. They've never had this situation of a big outcry over one combined with the opportunity to add characters via DLC before, though, so I wonder whether they might end up changing their minds on it at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by INoKnowNames View Post
    As for a "boring and minor character"...DID SOMEONE SAY PIRANHA PLANT!?!
    Agreed, Piranha Plant is an even more minor and boring character - and worse, he's a nameless, generic enemy, who it's actually not hyperbole to say that nobody wanted in before he was announced. Worst addition to the roster ever, in my personal opinion. Instead of making him, they could have made literally any other character who has fans at all, and it would have been preferable, I'd say.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-09-07 at 12:43 AM.
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