The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    LansXero's Avatar

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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Also, offense is king in this game and most of fortress units are slow tanky types. Compared to the alpha strike potential of some of the other towns after a mass slow/haste/prayer
    Just what ever goes before a dragonfly? Angels, Phoenixes and? if you attack and or get a +speed item, you're almost guaranteed to get your mass slow off, and then you just pick stuff apart. Sure, Gnolls and Lizardmen are trash, but Gorgons, Wyverns and Hydras are excellent.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Fortress gets by because their starting heroes aren't bad (Drakon, Bron, also Wystan in HotA) and they have great scaling (esp. Tazar), plus they have a few quirks that keep them afloat (Dragonfly Hives were mentioned and also their mix of cheap / relatively tanky makes them really good at taking Utopias and such). Dragonfly scouts are really good and they can expand fast. Wyverns can be bought early and Hydras can even arrive in Week 1, and they're fairly self-reliant. Remember that with all of that defense and just a sprinkle of magic you can tank a lot of stuff with just your initial first few hydras after finishing a week.

    Ultimately, you get a larger Wyvern Monarch powerstack than your opponent, Gorgons that are really cool, and all those layers of defense are hard to penetrate, so you win the slugfests.

    Having low Attack early on sucks though, so there's quite a lot of finesse to playing Fortress. Still, it's generally solid. As mentioned, I would pick it over Inferno or Tower a lot of the time, and I consider it my favourite town so I'd pick it over quite a few other towns.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-09-11 at 12:19 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Doesn't WoG contain upgrades for subpar/useless skills like Eagle Eye or Learning? Or is it just for heroes who specialize in them?
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    I'll admit, I've barely played Stronghold. As a faction I was never that interested in them. The main factions I played were Fortress, Rampart, and Dungeon. While my brother typically played Castle and Tower.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Just what ever goes before a dragonfly? Angels, Phoenixes and? if you attack and or get a +speed item, you're almost guaranteed to get your mass slow off, and then you just pick stuff apart. Sure, Gnolls and Lizardmen are trash, but Gorgons, Wyverns and Hydras are excellent.
    SOG advanced Dragons, Black/Gold/Ghost Dragons, Firebirds, and Efreet Sultans, if you want a complete list. Also then what? Against red or green dragons, your opponent gets the next turn and can immediately counter with mass slow (gets a free double turn effectively since you already cast and now your troops are slowed), mass haste (either a free double turn or freedom to alpha strike), or mass dispel. Even if they don't have dragons, unless you have advanced+ tactics and your enemy doesn't none of your troops can reach the enemy on the first turn besides wyverns and dragonflies and your lizardmen archers. So you either advance or wait. If you wait, they evenutally get a turn and counterspell. If you advance, they get to counter and likely two free attacks on your units.

    Edit: I'm assuming a human opponent. Against creeps or AI's, almost anything works.
    Last edited by Thomas Cardew; 2019-09-11 at 12:46 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Also then what?
    You have one of the most resilient armies in the game (thanks to your likely Beastmaster hero, as Fortress gets good mains in tavern), more Monarchs than your opponent and all the units you listed as speed counters are also yummy targets for Mighty Gorgons.

    That, and the reality can be vastly different depending on maps; if it's a week 4 meeting like on Jebus Cross or similar you often have something like a large gnoll stack, wyvern monarchs, angels, main stack of dragonflies and 1-1-1 dragonfly, in which case the situation is much less clear cut. I never bother too much with the "what if full Fortress army fights a full Castle army" hypothetical simply because each town also has a different build-up and does different things to win; Castle has no equivalent of a Drakon-style Day 1 in SoD, and the first week progression is vastly different for either town. So it's more likely that you will mix and match. A single refugee camp can suddenly change the matchup you're fighting drastically.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Doesn't WoG contain upgrades for subpar/useless skills like Eagle Eye or Learning? Or is it just for heroes who specialize in them?
    It does, but WoG itself is kinda... bad as far as balance is concerned. It's very much a kitchen sink of "throw every halfbaked idea together and hope it works".

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    It does, but WoG itself is kinda... bad as far as balance is concerned. It's very much a kitchen sink of "throw every halfbaked idea together and hope it works".
    That's because the point of WoG is to be a modular utility and not necessarily a full install. WoG (and ERA/VCMI) are cool because they have flags that allow more interesting single player maps and allow to make whatever changes you consider necessary for your enjoyment of gameplay, but you're not obliged to fully install it. There's a reason the MP community didn't bother with figuring out the "one true" version of WoG and instead kept playing SoD until HotA came around and gave a nice full package of sweeping changes all in one go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: If only: A manticore monster in heroes of might and magic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    It does, but WoG itself is kinda... bad as far as balance is concerned. It's very much a kitchen sink of "throw every halfbaked idea together and hope it works".
    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    That's because the point of WoG is to be a modular utility and not necessarily a full install. WoG (and ERA/VCMI) are cool because they have flags that allow more interesting single player maps and allow to make whatever changes you consider necessary for your enjoyment of gameplay, but you're not obliged to fully install it. There's a reason the MP community didn't bother with figuring out the "one true" version of WoG and instead kept playing SoD until HotA came around and gave a nice full package of sweeping changes all in one go.
    Indeed, and making those skills better is something I'd probably use in every game. I forget what changes HotA implemented, since I played it a while ago and not for long. Though this thread is certainly awakening powerful waves of Heroes 3 nostalgia in me...
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