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    Default Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    What the title says. I played 4e a long, long time ago, pretty much right as it came out, and I've since forgotten just about everything I know about it. I decided to give the game another whirl after all these years, as what I remember wasn't necessarily bad, and so I'm applying for a game on this forum. To that end I made a Bugbear Cleric.

    Spoiler: The Cleric in question
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    Grulgar, Bugbear Cleric
    Init +3 HP /23 Bloodied 11 Healing Surge 5 ( used /8)
    AC 19 Fort 14 Reflex 13 Will 15 Speed 5
    Str 16 (+3) Con 12 (+1) Dex 14 (+2) Int 10 (0) Wis 14 (+2) Cha 14 (+2)

    Righteous Brand
    At Will- Divine, Weapon. Str Vs AC
    1W+Str and one ally within 5 gains a bonus of Melee attack rolls
    equal to your Str Mid until the end of your next turn
    Healing Strike
    Encounter-Divine, Healing, Radiant, Weapon Str vs. AC
    2W+Str radiant damage and target are marked until end of your next turn. You or one ally within 5 can spend a healing surge
    Divine Aid
    Encounter Utility, Ranged 5, You or One Ally
    Target makes a Saving Throw with a bonus equal to your Cha mod
    Sacred Flame
    At Will- Divine, Implement, Radiant. Ranged 5, Wis vs. Ref
    1d6_Wis radiant damage and one ally you can see either gain Temp HP equal to you Cha Mod+ 1/2 level or make a saving throw
    Avenging Flame
    Daily-Divine, Fire, Weapon. Str vs. AC
    2W+Str and ongoing 5 fire damage, save ends. Miss: Half damage and no fire.
    Daunting Light
    Encounter-Divine, Implement, Radiant. Ranged 10, Wis vs Ref
    2d10+Wis Radiant Damage One Ally you can see gains Combat Advantage against the target until end of your next turn
    Notes
    Feats: Astral Fire, Skill Training Stealth


    He's a Cleric of the Sun and as such is more focused on shooting lasers and cracking skulls than anything else. I'm pretty much grabbing anything with Fire or Radiant that looks good and going from there.

    I don't need real hard optimization here,I just want to make sure I'm not walking into a trap.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-09-08 at 06:50 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    So I'm going to offer some suggestions and commentary. Some of them are geared towards optimization, but I'm going to try and keep that gentle- i.e., optimization that will make things more fun for you, rather than over the top. I'm also going to mention a bunch of things you may not have run into since it looks like you're largely using PHB1- let me know if you need sources or texts. Feel free to ignore any/all, though I'd really, really strongly suggest the ability score notes. There's also a correction on your HP number and some suggestions for things you haven't chosen at the end.

    Grulgar, Bugbear Cleric
    Nice choice! Since you can, make sure to take Large weapons. Functionally, you increase weapon die by 1 size. How valuable that is depends on the weapon- 1d6 goes to 1d8, 1d10 goes to 1d12, but 1d8 goes to 2d4. Keep that in mind when picking equipment.


    Init +3 HP /23 Bloodied 11 Healing Surge 5 ( used /8)
    You've undercounted your HP, which is not surprising, because this is one of the very few times when the score, not the modifier, matters. Your HP is 12 + Con score (not modifier) +5 per level after 1, so a total of 34, not 23. That also makes your bloodied value 17 and your surges worth 8, rather than 5.


    AC 19 Fort 14 Reflex 13 Will 15 Speed 5
    Str 16 (+3) Con 12 (+1) Dex 14 (+2) Int 10 (0) Wis 14 (+2) Cha 14 (+2)
    First of all, you could add 1 to either CON or INT and still be legal in terms of point buy.

    This is one of those places where there's a difference between massive optimization, optimization to have fun, and little enough optimization that it's a detriment to fun. The highest a level 3 PC can have an ability is 20 (18 starting +2 racial). 18 is perfectly common. 16 is a little unoptimized, but not unreasonable overall. But that 14 in Wisdom, if you've got Wisdom attacks, is going to be brutal. If you're using a +2 proficiency weapon, then your attack rolls on Wisdom powers will be 1 (1/2 level) + 2 (Wis modifier) +1 (enhancement, assuming a +1 weapon) +2 (proficiency)= 6+1d20. A level 3 enemy's AC will be roughly 17, so you hit on an 11- meaning a 50% chance of hitting. If it's an implement power and you have a +1 implement, the math is similar. Whereas an 18 stat would get you to hitting 60% of the time, an Expertise feat would get you to 65%, a +3 proficiency weapon to 70%. That's a 20-40% increase in your rolls that hit, which tends to be more fun.

    You DON'T need to go whole-hog with optimization in terms of stats. But a 16/16/12/12/10/8 array (appropriately distributed) could up both your Strength and Wisdom. A 17/15/13/10/10/8 array (17 in Wis and 15 in STR) would up your Wis mod by one, and from levels 4-7, when you get a stat point in two stats, would be even better. Even a 16/14/14/11/10/10 could get you to 16 in each attack stat, which would help. Alternatively, picking one attack stat and sticking to it would also work. But you've distributed your stats to an extent where you're going to be staring at not just more misses on Wis powers, but enough that you may well be frustrated. You could easily have 16+2 str/12 Con/12+2 Dex/8 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha; 15+2 Str/10 Con/13+2 Dex/8 Int/17 Wis/10 Cha; or 14+2 Str/11 Con/14+2 Dex/10 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha. That is hurting your Cha (and I suppose Int), but it'll make for a more fun experience in terms of hitting stuff.



    Righteous Brand
    At Will- Divine, Weapon. Str Vs AC
    1W+Str and one ally within 5 gains a bonus of Melee attack rolls
    equal to your Str Mid until the end of your next turn

    A very nice pick, though note that it was errata'ed to a flat +3 instead of Strength mod.


    Healing Strike
    Encounter-Divine, Healing, Radiant, Weapon Str vs. AC
    2W+Str radiant damage and target are marked until end of your next turn. You or one ally within 5 can spend a healing surge
    Fine, though I don't love marking with your PC, given your relatively low defenses and HP. If you're hard into radiant, then it's a nice choice. I tend to prefer Sundering Might, I'll note, though, that if you're sticking to mostly Weapon powers, you should be able to take a Sunblade Weapon +1 if you're ok using heavy blades, which would convert all your (weapon attack) damage into radiant. If you're doing that, I'd prefer Sundering Might (PM me if you need the text). Prophetic Guidance is an amazing Wis power that doesn't require an attack roll, but it also doesn't deal damage and I can understand not wanting it.

    Sacred Flame
    At Will- Divine, Implement, Radiant. Ranged 5, Wis vs. Ref
    1d6_Wis radiant damage and one ally you can see either gain Temp HP equal to you Cha Mod+ 1/2 level or make a saving throw
    So I'm going out of order here for a reason. I like this power if you want a Ranged At Will. If you're not committed to that, or if you want more Weapon (albeit Wis, not Str) and less implement, check out Brand of the Sun instead. Still Radiant, still sun themed, but grants a saving throw as an effect, rather than conditional on the hit.

    Divine Aid
    Encounter Utility, Ranged 5, You or One Ally
    Target makes a Saving Throw with a bonus equal to your Cha mod
    This is mostly redundant with Sacred Flame or Brand of the Sun, especially Brand of the Sun. You're spending your standard action to grant a save, which is nice but...probably not so vital? Unfortunately, I don't really love any Cleric U2 powers. Maybe Shield of Faith (which was errata'ed to a minor action and so is pretty usable)?


    Avenging Flame
    Daily-Divine, Fire, Weapon. Str vs. AC
    2W+Str and ongoing 5 fire damage, save ends. Miss: Half damage and no fire.
    Probably most useful on a Solo. Might want to check out Weapon of Astral Flame (gives you a fire sword that wanders around with you attacking enemies as long as you sustain minor). The max-op power here is Moment of Glory, but it's Wis based and not radiant/fire.

    Daunting Light
    Encounter-Divine, Implement, Radiant. Ranged 10, Wis vs Ref
    2d10+Wis Radiant Damage One Ally you can see gains Combat Advantage against the target until end of your next turn
    If you want Str, check out Words Are Not Enough, which is multitarget dazing (not Radiant, but a Sunblade would fix that). If you want Wis, check out Astral Flare, which is a Close Burst 3 (so a 7x7 on the grid), though no damage.

    Notes
    Feats: Astral Fire, Skill Training Stealth
    I'd shoot for + to attack rather than damage at this point, so maybe an Expertise feat- ideally either Mighty Crusader Expertise (+1 to attacks w/2 handed weapons and holy symbols, and you don't provoke OAs with ranged/area attacks if you have a 2h weapon), or Versatile Expertise if not (+1 to attacks with a weapon and an implement group of your choice). I'd avoid Skill Training Stealth- either go with a multiclass feat that gets you training in a skill from the new class of your choice, or any of the mechanical backgrounds that let you train stealth as a class skill (monk is most likely to be useful, but there are others). In particular, you might want to look at Silent Hunter- it has this benefit: "You add Stealth and Perception to your class skill list, and you gain a +1 bonus to Stealth and Perception checks." That opens up a feat for you. Alternatively, the Gritty Sergeant background gets you proficiency in a Military weapon of your choice.

    A few other notes:
    1) You don't have items picked out. I mentioned Sunblade as one possibility. Presuming that you're going with heavy armor, I like Dwarven Armor or Veteran's Armor, though Rebuking Armor can be quite nice too. Neck...eh, whatever, honestly, there aren't many that differentiate themselves until significantly higher levels. There is a Radiant conversion Holy Symbol, but it doesn't exist in the lower half of Heroic (i.e. it's an 8+ item)

    2) You don't have your Channel Divinity powers listed. You can only use 1/encounter, but they're good to have listed. By default, you get Divine Fortune and Turn Undead, but Turn Undead can be subbed out for Healer's Mercy (Divine Power) or Punish the Profane (Dragon 400). Divine Fortune can be subbed out for Favor of the Gods from Dragon 400 (and the latter is probably strictly superior to the former).

    3) I believe Healer's Lore was updated to the following (I don't think this is the PHB text):
    Your study of healing allows you to make the most of your healing prayers.
    Benefit: When you restore hit points to a creature by using a cleric power that
    has the healing keyword, add your Wisdom modifier to the hit points regained, but
    only if the healing involves the creature spending a healing surge.

    4) Alternatively, you can choose Battle Cleric's Lore (which is probably more thematic and definitely more powerful):
    You gain a +2 shield bonus to AC, and
    you have proficiency with scale armor. In addition,
    whenever you use a cleric healing power to allow a
    target to spend a healing surge, that target gains a +2
    bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

    5) Finally, Themes. There are tons, and they're too varied to sum up entirely. Do you want Ki Focus proficiency and later on some skill training? More healing? A fey beast buddy? I'm including a link to the theme optimization guide- you can take anything you want, but it at least gives brief summaries of salient points.

    6) A bonus- lots of the original PHB Cleric stuff was updated, some of which I've mentioned here. WotC actually hosts a free PDF if you know where to look: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/399_CC_Cleric.pdf

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    I think your attack stats are a bit low. I would normally aim for an 18 (+4) or even 20 (+5) in my primary stat. That 14 (+2) in Wisdom could lead to a lot of annoying misses. IMO pick either melee or ranged and boost that stat rather than trying to do both.

    What weapon are you using? It's probably worth spending a feat to get Fullblade proficiency if you're going for melee, as it would upgrade your to-hit and damage over any simple weapon.

    If you have backgrounds available, find one that adds Stealth as a class skill. That will be better than spending a feat to train it. You might also want to get the "Summoned Armour" enchantment for your plate so you can dismiss it and be more stealthy when you want to sneak around.

    Why Bugbear? If it's the MM variant you're using you get one possibly OP ability and no feat support at all.

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    I am being ninjaed right now, but I think Fell Strike is much better then Sacred Flame unless you are radiance focused. A charge is also essentially ranged, and it is a better power overall.
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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    So I'm going to offer some suggestions and commentary. Some of them are geared towards optimization, but I'm going to try and keep that gentle- i.e., optimization that will make things more fun for you, rather than over the top. I'm also going to mention a bunch of things you may not have run into since it looks like you're largely using PHB1- let me know if you need sources or texts. Feel free to ignore any/all, though I'd really, really strongly suggest the ability score notes. There's also a correction on your HP number and some suggestions for things you haven't chosen at the end.
    Very good, and yes, I was using pretty much just the PHB 1 as the powers at least looked to be what I wanted. Feat wise... I'm open to suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Nice choice! Since you can, make sure to take Large weapons. Functionally, you increase weapon die by 1 size. How valuable that is depends on the weapon- 1d6 goes to 1d8, 1d10 goes to 1d12, but 1d8 goes to 2d4. Keep that in mind when picking equipment.
    Oh, so thats what that does. I figued that but I couldn't seem to find a chart for it. Large Spear it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    You've undercounted your HP, which is not surprising, because this is one of the very few times when the score, not the modifier, matters. Your HP is 12 + Con score (not modifier) +5 per level after 1, so a total of 34, not 23. That also makes your bloodied value 17 and your surges worth 8, rather than 5.
    Ah, went a bit on auto-pilot there. Im so used to it being Mod not score. Fiing that now.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    First of all, you could add 1 to either CON or INT and still be legal in terms of point buy.

    This is one of those places where there's a difference between massive optimization, optimization to have fun, and little enough optimization that it's a detriment to fun. The highest a level 3 PC can have an ability is 20 (18 starting +2 racial). 18 is perfectly common. 16 is a little unoptimized, but not unreasonable overall. But that 14 in Wisdom, if you've got Wisdom attacks, is going to be brutal. If you're using a +2 proficiency weapon, then your attack rolls on Wisdom powers will be 1 (1/2 level) + 2 (Wis modifier) +1 (enhancement, assuming a +1 weapon) +2 (proficiency)= 6+1d20. A level 3 enemy's AC will be roughly 17, so you hit on an 11- meaning a 50% chance of hitting. If it's an implement power and you have a +1 implement, the math is similar. Whereas an 18 stat would get you to hitting 60% of the time, an Expertise feat would get you to 65%, a +3 proficiency weapon to 70%. That's a 20-40% increase in your rolls that hit, which tends to be more fun.

    You DON'T need to go whole-hog with optimization in terms of stats. But a 16/16/12/12/10/8 array (appropriately distributed) could up both your Strength and Wisdom. A 17/15/13/10/10/8 array (17 in Wis and 15 in STR) would up your Wis mod by one, and from levels 4-7, when you get a stat point in two stats, would be even better. Even a 16/14/14/11/10/10 could get you to 16 in each attack stat, which would help. Alternatively, picking one attack stat and sticking to it would also work. But you've distributed your stats to an extent where you're going to be staring at not just more misses on Wis powers, but enough that you may well be frustrated. You could easily have 16+2 str/12 Con/12+2 Dex/8 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha; 15+2 Str/10 Con/13+2 Dex/8 Int/17 Wis/10 Cha; or 14+2 Str/11 Con/14+2 Dex/10 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha. That is hurting your Cha (and I suppose Int), but it'll make for a more fun experience in terms of hitting stuff.
    This is my long time expirence in 3.5 kicking in cuz I looked at my array and went "Ya, that looks ok, should be fine" but based off of your math it seems like I'm gonna be underperforming if I go that route. I may go with the 17/15 array, but I didn't want to have a negative stat (I hate having negative stats) whcih is why my Dex and Int are where they are, I stuck the * in Dex and let my racial fix it. Could probably still do that.

    But your point is well made, I need to focus my stats more or I'm gonna suck at my job. And that's not gonna be fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    A very nice pick, though note that it was errata'ed to a flat +3 instead of Strength mod.
    Odd that they killed it's scaling but whatever I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Fine, though I don't love marking with your PC, given your relatively low defenses and HP. If you're hard into radiant, then it's a nice choice. I tend to prefer Sundering Might, I'll note, though, that if you're sticking to mostly Weapon powers, you should be able to take a Sunblade Weapon +1 if you're ok using heavy blades, which would convert all your (weapon attack) damage into radiant. If you're doing that, I'd prefer Sundering Might (PM me if you need the text). Prophetic Guidance is an amazing Wis power that doesn't require an attack roll, but it also doesn't deal damage and I can understand not wanting it.
    Where is Sundering Might and what is a Sunblade? Because I may be able to get one.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    So I'm going out of order here for a reason. I like this power if you want a Ranged At Will. If you're not committed to that, or if you want more Weapon (albeit Wis, not Str) and less implement, check out Brand of the Sun instead. Still Radiant, still sun themed, but grants a saving throw as an effect, rather than conditional on the hit.
    I mostly wanted some ranged so I'm not locked into melee, but if Brand of the Sun is better I may consider it.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    This is mostly redundant with Sacred Flame or Brand of the Sun, especially Brand of the Sun. You're spending your standard action to grant a save, which is nice but...probably not so vital? Unfortunately, I don't really love any Cleric U2 powers. Maybe Shield of Faith (which was errata'ed to a minor action and so is pretty usable)?
    Oh, Shield of Faith sounds much better with that change. I just grabbed this one becuase getting mroe saves more ways seemed like a good plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Probably most useful on a Solo. Might want to check out Weapon of Astral Flame (gives you a fire sword that wanders around with you attacking enemies as long as you sustain minor). The max-op power here is Moment of Glory, but it's Wis based and not radiant/fire.
    I'll take a look as that seems neat.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    If you want Str, check out Words Are Not Enough, which is multitarget dazing (not Radiant, but a Sunblade would fix that). If you want Wis, check out Astral Flare, which is a Close Burst 3 (so a 7x7 on the grid), though no damage.
    Both of those sounds loads better than that one, so I'll check them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    I'd shoot for + to attack rather than damage at this point, so maybe an Expertise feat- ideally either Mighty Crusader Expertise (+1 to attacks w/2 handed weapons and holy symbols, and you don't provoke OAs with ranged/area attacks if you have a 2h weapon), or Versatile Expertise if not (+1 to attacks with a weapon and an implement group of your choice). I'd avoid Skill Training Stealth- either go with a multiclass feat that gets you training in a skill from the new class of your choice, or any of the mechanical backgrounds that let you train stealth as a class skill (monk is most likely to be useful, but there are others). In particular, you might want to look at Silent Hunter- it has this benefit: "You add Stealth and Perception to your class skill list, and you gain a +1 bonus to Stealth and Perception checks." That opens up a feat for you. Alternatively, the Gritty Sergeant background gets you proficiency in a Military weapon of your choice.
    Noted. Mighty Crusader sounds rather useful to me, so I'll look into that, what book is it in?

    Silent Hunter sounds amazing as does Gritty Sergant. Those are both Backgroudns then? Also, where do I find backgrounds, I have a feeling they're right in my face and Im just reading over them.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    A few other notes:
    1) You don't have items picked out. I mentioned Sunblade as one possibility. Presuming that you're going with heavy armor, I like Dwarven Armor or Veteran's Armor, though Rebuking Armor can be quite nice too. Neck...eh, whatever, honestly, there aren't many that differentiate themselves until significantly higher levels. There is a Radiant conversion Holy Symbol, but it doesn't exist in the lower half of Heroic (i.e. it's an 8+ item)

    2) You don't have your Channel Divinity powers listed. You can only use 1/encounter, but they're good to have listed. By default, you get Divine Fortune and Turn Undead, but Turn Undead can be subbed out for Healer's Mercy (Divine Power) or Punish the Profane (Dragon 400). Divine Fortune can be subbed out for Favor of the Gods from Dragon 400 (and the latter is probably strictly superior to the former).

    3) I believe Healer's Lore was updated to the following (I don't think this is the PHB text):
    Your study of healing allows you to make the most of your healing prayers.
    Benefit: When you restore hit points to a creature by using a cleric power that
    has the healing keyword, add your Wisdom modifier to the hit points regained, but
    only if the healing involves the creature spending a healing surge.

    4) Alternatively, you can choose Battle Cleric's Lore (which is probably more thematic and definitely more powerful):
    You gain a +2 shield bonus to AC, and
    you have proficiency with scale armor. In addition,
    whenever you use a cleric healing power to allow a
    target to spend a healing surge, that target gains a +2
    bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

    5) Finally, Themes. There are tons, and they're too varied to sum up entirely. Do you want Ki Focus proficiency and later on some skill training? More healing? A fey beast buddy? I'm including a link to the theme optimization guide- you can take anything you want, but it at least gives brief summaries of salient points.

    6) A bonus- lots of the original PHB Cleric stuff was updated, some of which I've mentioned here. WotC actually hosts a free PDF if you know where to look: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/399_CC_Cleric.pdf
    1. Yup, currently working on gear, as its the part I know the least about. Sunblades will be looked into.

    2. I'll double check if Dragon is allowed, and Ill look into those if they are.

    3/4. Battle Cleric Lore seems amazing. I'm taking that

    5. Oh god thmes. I know nothing about those things and so I have some reading to do.

    6. Well, thats helpful, thank you.

    Seriosuly, thanks for this. I'll have to adjust a bit from 3.5 but this has been very helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    I think your attack stats are a bit low. I would normally aim for an 18 (+4) or even 20 (+5) in my primary stat. That 14 (+2) in Wisdom could lead to a lot of annoying misses. IMO pick either melee or ranged and boost that stat rather than trying to do both.

    What weapon are you using? It's probably worth spending a feat to get Fullblade proficiency if you're going for melee, as it would upgrade your to-hit and damage over any simple weapon.

    If you have backgrounds available, find one that adds Stealth as a class skill. That will be better than spending a feat to train it. You might also want to get the "Summoned Armour" enchantment for your plate so you can dismiss it and be more stealthy when you want to sneak around.

    Why Bugbear? If it's the MM variant you're using you get one possibly OP ability and no feat support at all.
    Ya, I'll be adjusting my stats.

    Was a spear, now probably going for Sunblade.

    And I'm going for Bugbear as the "Normal Races" aren't allowed, and I like Bugbears.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-09-08 at 10:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
    Tiefling Sorcerer by Linkele
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    My Spell, My Weapon, Im a God

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Was a spear, now probably going for Sunblade.
    With the large size a bugbear can use, the Fullblade would go from 1d12 to 2d6 damage, while keeping the high crit property. Only half a point more on average, but also less random. An alternative might be to use a Mordenkrad, the superior 2H hammer. That is normally 2d6 brutal 1, and would go to 2d8 brutal 1, which is a bigger upgrade. The brutal 1 property means you reroll any ones on damage dice. The downside is that the Mordenkrad is +2 to attack while the Fullblade is +3.

    I'm not sure if there is an equivalent to the Sunblade enchantment for hammers, but you could ask you DM to let you use it anyway.

    Maybe just find a d14 and argue that it should be the size upgrade for the Fullblade
    Last edited by Excession; 2019-09-08 at 10:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    A Fullblade is a weapon type introduced in Adventurer's Vault. It's a Superior Weapon type, so you need to spend a feat to get it, but it's not an Enchantment, and as it's a Heavy Blade, you can have a Sunblade Fullblade. It's 2-handed, +3 proficiency, 1d12 damage (or 2d6 in Large form), High Crit (meaning in heroic tier your crits do 1W extra, i.e. 1d12).


    For sources:

    Sundering Might: Dragon 400 (there's a massive Battle Cleric article in Dragon 400)
    Sunblade: Adventurer's Vault
    Brand of the Sun: Heroes of the Fallen Lands
    Weapon of Astral Flame: Divine Power
    Moment of Glory: Divine Power
    Words are Not Enough: Dragon 400
    Astral Flare: Divine Power
    Mighty Crusader Expertise: Dragon 402
    Battle Cleric's Lore: Also Dragon 400

    Backgrounds:
    Backgrounds were initially introduced in Player's Handbook 2, and the ones in there are generally either +2 to a Skill or gain 1 Skill as a class skill. Silent Hunter and Gritty Sergeant are both from Scales of War, and are a little more powerful than the PHB2 ones, but they aren't the 2 backgrounds from Scales of War that are the most commonly used (those two, Auspicious Birth and Born Under a Bad Sign, let you pick a different stat for your base HP). Note that Gritty Sergeant won't help you with a Fullblade, since that's a Superior Weapon.

    As for Radiant conversion: Sunblade (Heavy Blades) is the only one in lower Heroic tier. Sun Disk of Pelor is 8+ and a Holy Symbol, Crusader's Weapon is a 9+ Weapon enchantment (Hammers and Maces only) that makes half your damage radiant and counts as a Holy Symbol as well, Radiant Weapon is 15+ (any weapon) and adds an Item bonus to damage = Enhancement bonus.

    There are a few 2d6 weapons out there, but none are heavy blades (or +3 proficiency). The Large size upgrade to 2d6 is 2d8.

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    With the large size a bugbear can use, the Fullblade would go from 1d12 to 2d6 damage, while keeping the high crit property. Only half a point more on average, but also less random. An alternative might be to use a Mordenkrad, the superior 2H hammer. That is normally 2d6 brutal 1, and would go to 2d8 brutal 1, which is a bigger upgrade. The brutal 1 property means you reroll any ones on damage dice. The downside is that the Mordenkrad is +2 to attack while the Fullblade is +3.
    Rather than Mordenkrad, I might go with Execution Axe. Brutal 2 on 1d12 is less good than the Mordenkrad... but Brutal 2 on 2d6 has the same average damage as Brutal 1 on 2d8 and a much higher min damage, plus High Crit. Of course, you also get an equally lower max damage, but High Crit helps make up for that.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-09-09 at 12:59 AM.
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    Excession's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Rather than Mordenkrad, I might go with Execution Axe. Brutal 2 on 1d12 is less good than the Mordenkrad... but Brutal 2 on 2d6 has the same average damage as Brutal 1 on 2d8 and a much higher min damage, plus High Crit. Of course, you also get an equally lower max damage, but High Crit helps make up for that.
    That is a good point. This stuff is also why Oversized used to be seen as a bit OP or just weirdly broken. There are probably better races though, as others have feat support.

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    Default Re: Making a Bugbear Cleric, basically a first timer

    Axe vs Hammer, really, which do you think is cooler?

    Both tend to be secondary Con.

    Axe expertise is a pseudo-B1, so doesn't overlap. Hammer expertise boosts slides/pushes. And you'll want Axe expertise or Bludgeon expertise.

    Gouge is always tempting -- 2d8 with Axe and Spear feat support can be nice.

    Or you might pick up Mighty Crusader Expertise so you can get expertise bonuses to both implement and weapon attacks. Then axe expertise becomes less tempting. (MCE grants expertise +1/2/3 feat bonuses to attacks with 2 handed weapons and holy symbols, and makes holy symbol attacks not provoke OAs when using a 2 handed weapon.)
    Last edited by Yakk; 2019-09-10 at 02:37 PM.

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