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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    And Familicide. Let's not forget about Familicide.
    This isn't a serious theory but I personally find it amusing to imagine that broken-powerful homebrew stuff like familicide and other cases where spells are more powerful/different from RAW in general can be traced back to the fact that Odin isn't always at the top of his game.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    This isn't a serious theory but I personally find it amusing to imagine that broken-powerful homebrew stuff like familicide and other cases where spells are more powerful/different from RAW in general can be traced back to the fact that Odin isn't always at the top of his game.
    I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.
    Didn't someone say this last thread? I think it was a different analogy but someone definitely said this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Didn't someone say this last thread? I think it was a different analogy but someone definitely said this.
    Don't know about that. But the analogy can go a bit further. There are homebrewed spell seeds you can use in epic spellcrafting, just like there are homebrewed M:tG cards you can use in deckmaking.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.
    I kind of assume that some tweaking of the rules went on to get Familicide to be as stupidly powerful as it was. It doesn't appear to have allowed a saving throw (maybe the DC was just stupidly high), and it seems to be able to kill an unlimited number of creatures.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    What are your interests?
    Hmm. Comedy in many forms (sketch, standup, sitcom, underrated films of the last 25 years). The TV series The Shield. Indie rock of the early 2000s. Classic Metroidvanias and JRPGs. Football. This comic. The post-punk era. Cocktails, tequila, whiskey, and beer. Performance endeavors. Cooking. Other things which might violate some of the board's discussion rules.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.

    Alternately, Symphony of the Night is the best Castlevania not just in spite of, but arguably because it stars Alucard rather than a Belmont.

    If one of those doesn't do it for ya I got nothin'.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindeloke View Post
    Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.

    Alternately, Symphony of the Night is the best Castlevania not just in spite of, but arguably because it stars Alucard rather than a Belmont.

    If one of those doesn't do it for ya I got nothin'.
    Going to have to go further back on the "classic" meter to hit my body of knowledge, my man.

    (or alternately, a handful of modern-day games that emulate the era.)
    Last edited by Ruck; 2019-09-11 at 02:12 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Going to have to go further back on the "classic" meter to hit my body of knowledge, my man.
    Castle Wolfstein was a lot better when it was still 2D. I pity the fools that have only played the 3D remake by Id Software.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-09-11 at 03:18 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    And mangoes in syrup.

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    Bananas! We haven't done bananas, right?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm sure the vampire in the background isn't relevant and isn't going to slowly over time bite people when nobody's looking and convert them all to their cause
    never piss off people for who one of their main hobbies involves aggressive and thorough note-taking.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deworde View Post
    Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.
    Plus, said vampire is a second-stringer who was converted by Durkula, so chances are they're *way* weaker than most of the other High Priests present.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deworde View Post
    Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.
    Technically, I think it wouldn’t nullify the vote as a whole - it would just lead to immediate execution and the consequent loss of Hel’s vote, which would produce an instant victory for the No side.
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  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    And if that fails, Ruck and Peelee could discuss AP Bio.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    One of these days the derailment will be on a topic of my interests. *sniff*
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Technically, I think it wouldn’t nullify the vote as a whole - it would just lead to immediate execution and the consequent loss of Hel’s vote, which would produce an instant victory for the No side.
    Not sure, if she target one priest on the No side, and somehow manage to perform it, then the No side would also lose a vote as well.

    Of course, the victim could be raised in theory, but we don't know what kind of argument of objection the Yes side could make against it.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Not sure, if she target one priest on the No side, and somehow manage to perform it, then the No side would also lose a vote as well.

    Of course, the victim could be raised in theory, but we don't know what kind of argument of objection the Yes side could make against it.
    She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells. Thee's also no possibility for her to isolate anyone since they are all stuck in what is essentially one big room and flight of stairs.
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  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Castle Wolfstein was a lot better when it was still 2D. I pity the fools that have only played the 3D remake by Id Software.
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  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindeloke View Post
    Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.
    Agreed. The junction system worked way better than Materia, I liked Triple Triad even if it required save/loads to stop Random rule spreading, the storyline was less convoluted than FF7, and I much preferred Squalls teen angst over Clouds weird identity crisis. Downside was the chocobo mini game that required an accessory that wasn't released in the UK, and the Laguna cutaways being kinda pointless diversions (the one where he got cramp was funny though).

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells. Thee's also no possibility for her to isolate anyone since they are all stuck in what is essentially one big room and flight of stairs.
    Isolate them in the "shower" maybe?
    Everyone there is Blind(folded)
    Last edited by KrankenWagon; 2019-09-11 at 10:33 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KrankenWagon View Post
    Isolate them in the "shower" maybe?
    Everyone there is Blind(folded)
    Blindfolded, yes. Deaf, no. A bunch of Divine Casters with high Wisdom scores are going to have pretty good Listen checks.

  22. - Top - End - #292
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells.
    If you mean what I think you mean, probably more like two-thirds. Neutral clerics get to choose Cure or Inflict¹ and, unless you're undead², there's not much reason to choose Inflict

    ¹unless at some point they've, however briefly, been formally Good or Evil; or their god has a strong bias toward positive/negative energy.

    ²or, at least, undead-focused in your ministry
    Last edited by Reboot; 2019-09-11 at 11:34 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #293
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    And have to spend more actions to apply metamagic when they cast, unlike wizards....And action economy is life-or-death (literally in some cases).
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    "What's Quicken Spell" - every 3.5 sorcerer ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Hey if you made it to Epic you could get a Feat that Auto-quickens your spells. Which because it's not applying metamagic feat to them so much as just permanently quick-ing all your spells, let you actually cast quickened spells!! You had to "waste" a slot on Quicken Spell though.
    Rapid Metamagic feat, Complete Mage. Or Metamagic Specialist ACF, PHB-II, but that one is inferior and makes you MAD (IIRC it works only 3 + INT mod times per day. Yes, INT).

    (Edit: Oh and Races of the Dragon also has Accelerate Metamagic, which is like Rapid Metamagic, but works only for one type of metamagic [chosen when picking the feat]. Sounds inferior, but it has much lower requirements so it can be taken at earlier levels.)

    Also at high levels of optimization Sorcs are far superior at action economy because of Arcane Spellsurge (Dragon Magic) and (Greater) Arcane Fusion (CM). The second spell is a Sorcerer exclusive, and is broken when combined with Sanctum Spell because it basically allows infinite (Level 1, or L4 for the Greater variant) spells in one cast. Alternatively it can be Twinned and/or Repeated for... less cheesy abuse of action economy — this latter part (Twinned/Repeated Arcane Fusion keyed to Orb spells) forms the centerpiece of the Mailman Sorcerer build.

    (Or Twinned and Sanctumed for Aleph-1 spells [infinite binary chains of infinite spells, which is uncountably infinite], which is a bigger infinity than countably infinite Aleph-0 spells. But that distinction is mostly academic and only useful for Pun-Pun thought experiments.)
    Last edited by NNescio; 2019-09-11 at 12:09 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    If you mean what I think you mean, probably more like two-thirds. Neutral clerics get to choose Cure or Inflict¹ and, unless you're undead², there's not much reason to choose Inflict

    ¹unless at some point they've, however briefly, been formally Good or Evil; or their god has a strong bias toward positive/negative energy.

    ²or, at least, undead-focused in your ministry
    For living clerics, cure is much better than inflict, but cure can be replaced by a magic stick starting at fairly low level while rebuke is useful and turn is useful only if you find something to do with it that doesn't involve undead.
    Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2019-09-11 at 11:45 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #296
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).
    But, that’s not true? The bodyguards are at most half the people there, and of the others only Veldrina isn’t a cleric (and I don’t know the rules for favored souls, can they do that?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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  27. - Top - End - #297
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Each cleric is attended by two bodyguards, which is how they got Roy and Belkar in. And as a favored soul, Veldrina can spam any spell she knows, including the healing ones.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    But, that’s not true? The bodyguards are at most half the people there, and of the others only Veldrina isn’t a cleric (and I don’t know the rules for favored souls, can they do that?)
    The quick and dirty version of Favored Soul is a divine sorcerer. They can only cast from a small pool of spells known, and IIRC they're charisma-based casters. They also get a bunch of cool fighty whacky abilities.
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  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).
    Durkon* called Wrecan "Crusader" at one point. If that's his class he can cast arcane spells. Other bodyguards may have similar capabilities.

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    Default Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    Durkon* called Wrecan "Crusader" at one point. If that's his class he can cast arcane spells. Other bodyguards may have similar capabilities.
    Crusaders are martial initiators. They don't get arcane spells. Or any spell, for that matter.

    (And IIRC the Pathfinder version is just a Cleric archetype [subclass]. But OOTS doesn't run on PF anyhow.)
    Last edited by NNescio; 2019-09-11 at 12:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.

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