OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

[CriticalFailure]

And Familicide. Let's not forget about Familicide.

This isn't a serious theory but I personally find it amusing to imagine that broken-powerful homebrew stuff like familicide and other cases where spells are more powerful/different from RAW in general can be traced back to the fact that Odin isn't always at the top of his game.

[RatElemental]

This isn't a serious theory but I personally find it amusing to imagine that broken-powerful homebrew stuff like familicide and other cases where spells are more powerful/different from RAW in general can be traced back to the fact that Odin isn't always at the top of his game.

I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.

[Schroeswald]

I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.

Didn't someone say this last thread? I think it was a different analogy but someone definitely said this.

[RatElemental]

Didn't someone say this last thread? I think it was a different analogy but someone definitely said this.

Don't know about that. But the analogy can go a bit further. There are homebrewed spell seeds you can use in epic spellcrafting, just like there are homebrewed M:tG cards you can use in deckmaking.

[CriticalFailure]

I'm not sure I'd class familicide as homebrew. Epic spells are designed to be custom, it'd be like calling a deck someone made in magic: the gathering homebrew.

I kind of assume that some tweaking of the rules went on to get Familicide to be as stupidly powerful as it was. It doesn't appear to have allowed a saving throw (maybe the DC was just stupidly high), and it seems to be able to kill an unlimited number of creatures.

[Ruck]

What are your interests?

Hmm. Comedy in many forms (sketch, standup, sitcom, underrated films of the last 25 years). The TV series The Shield. Indie rock of the early 2000s. Classic Metroidvanias and JRPGs. Football. This comic. The post-punk era. Cocktails, tequila, whiskey, and beer. Performance endeavors. Cooking. Other things which might violate some of the board's discussion rules.

[Sindeloke]

Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.

Alternately, Symphony of the Night is the best Castlevania not just in spite of, but arguably because it stars Alucard rather than a Belmont.

If one of those doesn't do it for ya I got nothin'.

[Ruck]

Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.

Alternately, Symphony of the Night is the best Castlevania not just in spite of, but arguably because it stars Alucard rather than a Belmont.

If one of those doesn't do it for ya I got nothin'.

Going to have to go further back on the "classic" meter to hit my body of knowledge, my man.

(or alternately, a handful of modern-day games that emulate the era.)

[The Pilgrim]

Going to have to go further back on the "classic" meter to hit my body of knowledge, my man.

Castle Wolfstein was a lot better when it was still 2D. I pity the fools that have only played the 3D remake by Id Software.

[Quebbster]

And mangoes in syrup.

We done oranges, apples, grapefruits — whole and segments — pomegranates, greengages, ...

Bananas! We haven't done bananas, right?

[Malphegor]

I'm sure the vampire in the background isn't relevant and isn't going to slowly over time bite people when nobody's looking and convert them all to their cause

[deworde]

Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.

[factotum]

Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.

Plus, said vampire is a second-stringer who was converted by Durkula, so chances are they're *way* weaker than most of the other High Priests present.

[Emanick]

Won't work, counts as violating the Godsmoot, and would lead to an immediate nullification of the vote.

Technically, I think it wouldn’t nullify the vote as a whole - it would just lead to immediate execution and the consequent loss of Hel’s vote, which would produce an instant victory for the No side.

[Personification]

And if that fails, Ruck and Peelee could discuss AP Bio.

One of these days the derailment will be on a topic of my interests. *sniff*

You were the one who liked to discuss AP Bio, right?

[Petrocorus]

Technically, I think it wouldn’t nullify the vote as a whole - it would just lead to immediate execution and the consequent loss of Hel’s vote, which would produce an instant victory for the No side.

Not sure, if she target one priest on the No side, and somehow manage to perform it, then the No side would also lose a vote as well.

Of course, the victim could be raised in theory, but we don't know what kind of argument of objection the Yes side could make against it.

[Fyraltari]

Not sure, if she target one priest on the No side, and somehow manage to perform it, then the No side would also lose a vote as well.

Of course, the victim could be raised in theory, but we don't know what kind of argument of objection the Yes side could make against it.

She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells. Thee's also no possibility for her to isolate anyone since they are all stuck in what is essentially one big room and flight of stairs.

[The Shadow]

Castle Wolfstein was a lot better when it was still 2D. I pity the fools that have only played the 3D remake by Id Software.

The sound of "SS!" can still make me cringe.

[Riftwolf]

Alright. Final Fantasy 8 is superior to Final Fantasy 7. Discuss.

Agreed. The junction system worked way better than Materia, I liked Triple Triad even if it required save/loads to stop Random rule spreading, the storyline was less convoluted than FF7, and I much preferred Squalls teen angst over Clouds weird identity crisis. Downside was the chocobo mini game that required an accessory that wasn't released in the UK, and the Laguna cutaways being kinda pointless diversions (the one where he got cramp was funny though).

[KrankenWagon]

She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells. Thee's also no possibility for her to isolate anyone since they are all stuck in what is essentially one big room and flight of stairs.

Isolate them in the "shower" maybe?
Everyone there is Blind(folded)

[HorizonWalker]

Isolate them in the "shower" maybe?
Everyone there is Blind(folded)

Blindfolded, yes. Deaf, no. A bunch of Divine Casters with high Wisdom scores are going to have pretty good Listen checks.

[Reboot]

She's unlikely to have the time to kill anyone. These are all high levels with loads of hit points and a third of the attendants are loaded with healing spells.

If you mean what I think you mean, probably more like two-thirds. Neutral clerics get to choose Cure or Inflict¹ and, unless you're undead², there's not much reason to choose Inflict

¹unless at some point they've, however briefly, been formally Good or Evil; or their god has a strong bias toward positive/negative energy.

²or, at least, undead-focused in your ministry

[Rogar Demonblud]

The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).

[NNescio]

And have to spend more actions to apply metamagic when they cast, unlike wizards....And action economy is life-or-death (literally in some cases).

"What's Quicken Spell" - every 3.5 sorcerer ever.

Hey if you made it to Epic you could get a Feat that Auto-quickens your spells. Which because it's not applying metamagic feat to them so much as just permanently quick-ing all your spells, let you actually cast quickened spells!! You had to "waste" a slot on Quicken Spell though.

Rapid Metamagic feat, Complete Mage. Or Metamagic Specialist ACF, PHB-II, but that one is inferior and makes you MAD (IIRC it works only 3 + INT mod times per day. Yes, INT).

(Edit: Oh and Races of the Dragon also has Accelerate Metamagic, which is like Rapid Metamagic, but works only for one type of metamagic [chosen when picking the feat]. Sounds inferior, but it has much lower requirements so it can be taken at earlier levels.)

Also at high levels of optimization Sorcs are far superior at action economy because of Arcane Spellsurge (Dragon Magic) and (Greater) Arcane Fusion (CM). The second spell is a Sorcerer exclusive, and is broken when combined with Sanctum Spell because it basically allows infinite (Level 1, or L4 for the Greater variant) spells in one cast. Alternatively it can be Twinned and/or Repeated for... less cheesy abuse of action economy — this latter part (Twinned/Repeated Arcane Fusion keyed to Orb spells) forms the centerpiece of the Mailman Sorcerer build.

(Or Twinned and Sanctumed for Aleph-1 spells [infinite binary chains of infinite spells, which is uncountably infinite], which is a bigger infinity than countably infinite Aleph-0 spells. But that distinction is mostly academic and only useful for Pun-Pun thought experiments.)

[Doug Lampert]

If you mean what I think you mean, probably more like two-thirds. Neutral clerics get to choose Cure or Inflict¹ and, unless you're undead², there's not much reason to choose Inflict

¹unless at some point they've, however briefly, been formally Good or Evil; or their god has a strong bias toward positive/negative energy.

²or, at least, undead-focused in your ministry

For living clerics, cure is much better than inflict, but cure can be replaced by a magic stick starting at fairly low level while rebuke is useful and turn is useful only if you find something to do with it that doesn't involve undead.

[Schroeswald]

The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).

But, that’s not true? The bodyguards are at most half the people there, and of the others only Veldrina isn’t a cleric (and I don’t know the rules for favored souls, can they do that?)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Each cleric is attended by two bodyguards, which is how they got Roy and Belkar in. And as a favored soul, Veldrina can spam any spell she knows, including the healing ones.

[Peelee]

But, that’s not true? The bodyguards are at most half the people there, and of the others only Veldrina isn’t a cleric (and I don’t know the rules for favored souls, can they do that?)

The quick and dirty version of Favored Soul is a divine sorcerer. They can only cast from a small pool of spells known, and IIRC they're charisma-based casters. They also get a bunch of cool fighty whacky abilities.

[Quebbster]

The point was that a third of the people present are clerics, who could easily make all their spells healing related. The bodyguards not so much (although I'm surprised nobody has a wizard as bodyguard).

Durkon* called Wrecan "Crusader" at one point. If that's his class he can cast arcane spells. Other bodyguards may have similar capabilities.

[NNescio]

Durkon* called Wrecan "Crusader" at one point. If that's his class he can cast arcane spells. Other bodyguards may have similar capabilities.

Crusaders are martial initiators. They don't get arcane spells. Or any spell, for that matter.

(And IIRC the Pathfinder version is just a Cleric archetype [subclass]. But OOTS doesn't run on PF anyhow.)