OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread

[JumboWheat01]

I stopped playing chess after they changed how the Queen moved.

Wait, they changed how the Queen moves? I must be well behind in the rules. Do tell.

[CriticalFailure]

Dare I ask when that happened?

[Jasdoif]

Dare I ask when that happened?

I think that was in the 15th century or something, before which movement was restricted to one square along a diagonal?

[Schroeswald]

You guys are all fussing about games from decades upon decades ago in the olden days and I'm just dumbstruck by the fact that FF4 is a lot of fun yet came out before I was born (I mean, 1991 was a long time ago by now).

This comic started before I was born, my first video game was Wii-Sports, my first video game I liked was LEGO Batman.

[Peelee]

chess is fun but I suck major *ss at it

Quick FYI:

1.) "Ass" isn't censored by the filter.
B.) If it was, then saying "*ss" would actually be against the rules, as it's masking.

Just a friendly bit of info.

[CriticalFailure]

Quick FYI:

1.) "Ass" isn't censored by the filter.
B.) If it was, then saying "*ss" would actually be against the rules, as it's masking.

Just a friendly bit of info.

Thanks, I’m sorry. I guess I really made an ass of myself on this one.

[Rogar Demonblud]

You could get one of these.

(I actually replaced my old NES with the NES-101 model in 1993. It lasted quite a while. I really dug the design and the new controllers, even if it was too late in the NES' life cycle for it to have much impact.)

Sonova... That has Galaga AND Gradius? I'm really tempted, but they haven't developed bionic thumbs yet.

[Ruck]

You guys are all fussing about games from decades upon decades ago in the olden days and I'm just dumbstruck by the fact that FF4 is a lot of fun yet came out before I was born (I mean, 1991 was a long time ago by now).

Yeah, despite the popular notion that fun was invented in 1995, they had it on old games too.

A little less snarky-- there was a time there, though I think it's come back around, where I began to suspect technology was being used increasingly as a substitute for good gameplay, instead with developers focusing on bells and whistles and what they could do with graphics and immersive environments and such. That said, some of this persists-- I'm playing Dragon Quest XI now precisely because it's a deliberate throwback to classic JRPGs, and it's still just way too full of cut scenes (not to mention stuff that take a lot longer than it feels like it should). If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. I play games when I want to play games.

[Fish]

It's pretty good in its niche. Now Tic-Tac-Toe, that's a broken, repetitive, overly simplistic game; wholly dependent on system mastery while pretending it's based on actual skill. Can you believe they flat-out copied noughts and crosses and still failed to improve anything about it?

Introducing EA: Noughts and Crosses, now with microtransactions!

[brian 333]

You young whippersnappers with your fancy compewter games!

In my day we played Avalon Hill games like Ghettysburg, and we liked it!

And we played a game where you hit a ball with a stick then ran around in circles. It was fun, they tell me. We would play that game all day. The game was won when somebody hit the ball through a neighbor's window.

[Mad Humanist]

In my day we played Avalon Hill games like Ghettysburg, and we liked it!

Some of us still like to play boardgames. Just won a game of Glory to Rome in fact.

[Silencer]

Is that a Giant Mountain Beaver cavalier and a Woodpeckeroc rider?

[Vendanna]

Some of us still like to play boardgames. Just won a game of Glory to Rome in fact.

Nice, boardgames are quite entertaining, especially on rainy days that you don't even want to take a peek outside, due the heavy rain or ¿Hail? like coconuts in size.

on my days we used to play pong, space invaders and snakepit. on commodore 64 :D

[danielxcutter]

All this talk about old games on an OotS forum, which is based on a friggin' TRPG.

[Schroeswald]

All this talk about old games on an OotS forum, which is based on a friggin' TRPG.

Pong is older than D&D (yes it is, look it up).

[The MunchKING]

Yeah, despite the popular notion that fun was invented in 1995, they had it on old games too.

Yeah, it was invented in 1991.

[Peelee]

Yeah, it was invented in 1991.

Never heard of it.

[Schroeswald]

Never heard of it.

Well you see 1991 was one year after 1990, one year before 1992, 28 years before 2019 and 18 years before 2009.

[Peelee]

Well you see 1991 was one year after 1990, one year before 1992, 28 years before 2019 and 18 years before 2009.

Not how I remember it. 1990 went straight to 92 that year.

[Ruck]

You young whippersnappers with your fancy compewter games!

In my day we played Avalon Hill games like Ghettysburg, and we liked it!

And we played a game where you hit a ball with a stick then ran around in circles. It was fun, they tell me. We would play that game all day. The game was won when somebody hit the ball through a neighbor's window.

Board games have been making a comeback. Whether you want all-day complex simulators or fun 30-60 minute romps, Euro-style is in, baby!

Yeah, it was invented in 1991.

Fun has been around at least since 1986.

[Peelee]

Fun has been around at least since 1986.

You're forgetting about 1984.

[Reboot]

As long as no-one tries to claim 1982. Clearly, that predates fun.

[Schroeswald]

You're forgetting about 1984.

Big Brother created fun, Big Brother created D&D, Big Brother created video games, Big Brother created all.

[Fyraltari]

Big Brother created fun, Big Brother created D&D, Big Brother created video games, Big Brother created all.

Also, fun, D&D, video games and all are tools of the Brotherhood and doubleplusungood.

[Ruck]

You're forgetting about 1984.

I thought 1984 eliminated fun. That's why we had to re-invent it in 1986.

[Doug Lampert]

You young whippersnappers with your fancy compewter games!

In my day we played Avalon Hill games like Ghettysburg, and we liked it!

And we played a game where you hit a ball with a stick then ran around in circles. It was fun, they tell me. We would play that game all day. The game was won when somebody hit the ball through a neighbor's window.

That's called a "Home Run" because after you hit the ball through the window everyone runs home and pretends they weren't involved.

Oddly, I'll be watching some adults play that game RSN, the gaming session with actual people ends prior to the Red Sox and Cardinals games.

[Schroeswald]

Also, fun, D&D, video games and all are tools of the Brotherhood and doubleplusungood.

We are at war with fun, we have always been at war with fun.

[The Pilgrim]

Board games have been making a comeback. Whether you want all-day complex simulators or fun 30-60 minute romps, Euro-style is in, baby!

Oceania always at war with Eurasia. Eurasianwise games notgood. Oceania always allied with Eastasia Eastasianwise games good. Oceanianwise games Plusgood. No timelose on games doubleplusgood. Games are prolefeed. Doubleplusgood partymember do all timespend for IngSoc.

[Jasdoif]

A little less snarky-- there was a time there, though I think it's come back around, where I began to suspect technology was being used increasingly as a substitute for good gameplay, instead with developers focusing on bells and whistles and what they could do with graphics and immersive environments and such. That said, some of this persists-- I'm playing Dragon Quest XI now precisely because it's a deliberate throwback to classic JRPGs, and it's still just way too full of cut scenes (not to mention stuff that take a lot longer than it feels like it should). If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. I play games when I want to play games.

While I agree, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.


I mean, take Wolfenstein 3D. If you ignore the graphics and the 3D perspective, you pretty much have one of the top-down run-and-gun games that had been around for over a decade. And it was a big success. Then take Doom. If you ignore the different style of graphics, and the variable elevation, and the variable lighting, and the non-grid maps; you pretty much have Wolfenstein 3D. And it was an even bigger success.

So after that was a wave of existing companies "wait, if we just take what we've been doing all along and put a 3D engine on top of it, maybe we can have a huge hit too!" Not everything, of course; but a lot of stuff felt like playing catchup with graphics and immersion, and not experimenting with with mechanics (off the top of my head....Out of Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX; I think there's one scene in VIII that wouldn't have worked exactly as well with a 2D engine).


The more recent trend, I feel, is because of something else entirely: Barriers of entry are way lower than they used to be. Independent developers are much more numerous, and simple diseconomies of scale means a big company could easily lose money on the kinds of gameplay experimentation that a smaller developer can excel with; to say nothing of what would happen if an expensive experiment failed. So they focus a lot on graphics, with an amount of artists that's exceedingly difficult for a smaller developer to match...And with how much paying those people can costs, they're less willing to veer from the gameplay formulae that have worked for them before. (The surge of remakes in the movie industry is similar in concept.)

---

Introducing EA: Noughts and Crosses, now with microtransactions!

Don't get cross if it's all for nought!

---

All this talk about old games on an OotS forum, which is based on a friggin' TRPG.

Mini tangent: The designer of two of my early favorites, Archon and Mail Order Monsters, also did design work for D&D; including the Thri-Kreen race.

[Sindeloke]

I think that was in the 15th century or something, before which movement was restricted to one square along a diagonal?

If you want a good example of how War Never Changes, there was aggressive backlash against this change because my God a female character doing something powerful. In some quarters they called it "madwoman's chess."

Then take Doom. If you ignore the different style of graphics, and the variable elevation, and the variable lighting, and the non-grid maps; you pretty much have Wolfenstein 3D.

That's not just graphics, though. That's actual changes in gameplay. Poor visibility and right-hand/elevation advantage completely alter the experience of an FPS.