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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    exelsisxax's Avatar

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    Default A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Seems like nobody ever wrote any rules. Also, the 3.5 ones were really vague anyway and I constantly see people not understanding how it A: actually works and B: should work.

    And I was bored of reading textbooks.

    So here's a short Gestalt for Pathfinder rules document for how to do gestalt in pathfinder. It's mostly the same, just with a pity bonus for gestalting high HD together and an explicit and unambiguous rule for prestige classes. I tried to give clarifying examples for the most common mistakes I've seen people make. Hopefully people can just refer to this rather than try to search for info on gestalt and finding bizarre 3.5 rules arguments.

    I also added a few variations on the normal use that people might be interested in, and also the singularity of madness and pain that is tristalt.

    I welcome your critique.
    Last edited by exelsisxax; 2019-09-09 at 05:57 PM.

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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Here are the gestalt rules I like to run. You could add it to your list of variants, if you'd like.

    Low-Powered Gestalt

    Characters end up only somewhat stronger than standard characters, but retain the versatility of normal gestalt characters.

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    exelsisxax's Avatar

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    That really doesn't fit the goal of gestalt. It's basically a method for making ad-hoc hybrids between any classes. Gestalt is intended to increase power.

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Not sure I understand the "sides" thing in prestige classes. Could you give a worked example?
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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    A gestalt character is [side a // side b]. A PrC can only benefit a class that is only on the same side as the PrC. So if you want to use eldritch knight to advance wizard casting, you can only do it with [wizard + EK // other stuff]. Wizard must be on the same side only.

    Does that make sense?

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by exelsisxax View Post
    A gestalt character is [side a // side b]. A PrC can only benefit a class that is only on the same side as the PrC. So if you want to use eldritch knight to advance wizard casting, you can only do it with [wizard + EK // other stuff]. Wizard must be on the same side only.

    Does that make sense?
    I think so. It seems a little bit of an extreme workaround rather than banning "blender" prestige classes.

    EDIT: Actually, one issue. Can a class end up on both sides? For example Cleric/Fighter, then Rogue/Fighter, then Rogue/Cleric?
    Last edited by Evil DM Mark3; 2019-09-11 at 08:25 AM.
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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    I think so. It seems a little bit of an extreme workaround rather than banning "blender" prestige classes.

    EDIT: Actually, one issue. Can a class end up on both sides? For example Cleric/Fighter, then Rogue/Fighter, then Rogue/Cleric?
    Yes, classes can be on both sides(though of course not for the same level). The whole "sides" thing is only for convenience and simplicity except for using the PrC rule. If you don't have any PrCs, there is no requirement to define what is on which side.

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    The only reason I asked is that it might lead to a few edge cases where you are forced to get 2 progressions for the same class.

    Example:
    Wiz/Clr
    Clr/Fight
    Wiz/Fight
    Wiz/Clr
    Mistic Thurge/Fight

    See how you are now Wizard 4, Cleric 2, Cleric 2 (Fighter 3)?
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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    The only reason I asked is that it might lead to a few edge cases where you are forced to get 2 progressions for the same class.

    Example:
    Wiz/Clr
    Clr/Fight
    Wiz/Fight
    Wiz/Clr
    Mistic Thurge/Fight

    See how you are now Wizard 4, Cleric 2, Cleric 2 (Fighter 3)?
    There's no possible way to get multiple progressions while following the rules. I don't know where you get that.

    This character as stated is [wiz3 cleric1 MT1 // fighter 3 cleric 2]. Because of the PrC rule, MT applies nothing to cleric because it isn't only on the same side as MT. The character has wizard 4 casting and cleric 3 casting. The player could have instead declared the cleric levels aligned on one side to get cleric 4 and wizard 3 if they wanted.

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by exelsisxax View Post
    There's no possible way to get multiple progressions while following the rules. I don't know where you get that.

    This character as stated is [wiz3 cleric1 MT1 // fighter 3 cleric 2]. Because of the PrC rule, MT applies nothing to cleric because it isn't only on the same side as MT. The character has wizard 4 casting and cleric 3 casting. The player could have instead declared the cleric levels aligned on one side to get cleric 4 and wizard 3 if they wanted.
    Ah, I see I missed the "Soley". That can also create strange endge cases, but you would have to be trying to savotage yourself so I don't see that as an issue.
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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    Ah, I see I missed the "Soley". That can also create strange endge cases, but you would have to be trying to savotage yourself so I don't see that as an issue.
    I don't think it can cause anything strange. But if you already have something strange where you're multiclassing 7 times by level 10 it definitely won't make it less weird.

    Is the use of the rule and how it all works clear, then?

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Yes, all clear.
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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Made a bunch of updates and made things more clear.

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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Looks interesting. Is it explicitly fractional for class features like sneak attack though?

    Example:

    Rogue 2/Fighter 3//Slayer 5

    Do you get your second sneak attack dice at Slayer 5 because none of the Rogue//Slayer levels counted for Slayer sneak attack?

    Or is it at Slayer 4 because you have 2 non-sneak levels of Slayer and 1 non-sneak level of Rogue which "rolls you over" to 2d6?

    Or something else and I completely misread? Heh.

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    Default Re: A Gestalt reference for Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvercrys View Post
    Looks interesting. Is it explicitly fractional for class features like sneak attack though?

    Example:

    Rogue 2/Fighter 3//Slayer 5

    Do you get your second sneak attack dice at Slayer 5 because none of the Rogue//Slayer levels counted for Slayer sneak attack?

    Or is it at Slayer 4 because you have 2 non-sneak levels of Slayer and 1 non-sneak level of Rogue which "rolls you over" to 2d6?

    Or something else and I completely misread? Heh.
    Your first was right. At every level, the faster/better class is used and any others are never used under any circumstances. So, for the purpose of sneak attack, this gestalt can be defined only as rogue 2/slayer 3. By every measure, this provides 2d6 sneak attack.

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