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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Which Bard level should I take?

    Hi folks! Looking for some advice as to how to start rounding out a game in a tabletop game.

    The Character Currently:
    Currently, she is a 6th level human bard, 1st level lyric thaumaturge.

    Her feats so far are Heighten Spell, Melodic Casting, Item Familiar, and Craft Wondrous Item. My DM has allowed psionatrix-like items for schools of spells, so I effectively also have Spell Focus (Enchantment). I've taken Healing Hymn in place of Fascinate/Suggestion.

    Additionally, as part of the game each PC has a strong ability (with no inherent use per day limit). Mine is: Whenever you cast a spell while using a bardic music ability, you can also heal a target within 60' for xd8+your charisma modifier, where x is the level of spell cast. This doesn't work with items like wands or scrolls, but does benefit from Healing Hymn and can be used to damage undead (though we haven't fought many undead so far.)

    My Role:
    In combat, my role so far has mainly been party buffer via bardic music and inspirational boost, and healer thanks to the ability mentioned above. However as we level up, healing is becoming less efficient, and I'm transitioning into an enchantment caster, since our party has damage covered with the other classes (A warblade, a swordsage/monk, a druid, and a Kineticist Psion).

    My Plan:
    The current plan was to take a 2 level dip into Sublime Chord, then druid 1, then Fochlucan lyrist X (DM has waived the evasion requirement). However, I don't have a ton of feats to spare, and would really like Captivating Melody to help out enchantment save DC's. As an enchanter, I'm not sure how much Song of Arcane Power will help, so I'm considering taking an extra level of Lyric Thaumaturge and only take one level of Sublime Chord (though still using FochL to advance Sublime Chord casting). Is there some good case for getting Song of Arcane Power that I'm missing?
    The feats I'm planning on taking are:
    9: Rapid metamagic
    12: Quicken Spell
    15: Metamagic Song
    18: (?)

    I'll happily take item suggestions as well. I've been struggling with healing any non-hitpoint damage as a bard, and bards don't get the good healing in the form of Heal.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Which Bard level should I take?

    The main reasons to get Song of Arcane Power are:

    (1) it increases the duration and range of your spells, and

    (2) it helps you pierce spell resistance

    It's a pretty strong effect, particularly since you're already dropping at least one caster level with your Druid dip for Fochlucan Lyrist...

    Actually, the tradeoff really looks more like 6th level Druid spells or Song of Arcane Power rather than the bonus feat or Song of Arcane Power, because you can't even start taking Sublime Chord or Fochlucan Lyrist until level 11. They both require skills at rank 13.

    So your Druid casting is going to be limited to level 5 spells regardless if you want Fochlucan Lyrist to progress Sublime Chord casting unless you take more Druid, but you can fit 2 levels of Druid in before 10 and still get both levels of Lyric Thaumaturge... So you've basically got 3 options:

    (1) You're level 7 now, something like Bard 7/Lyric Thaumaturge 2/Druid 1/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8 is a pretty good build here I think. You get 19 levels of Bardic Music and Sublime Chord 10 casting, 5th level Druid spells at level 20, and both Song of Arcane Power and Captivating Melody. Bard 6/Druid 2 is approximately equivalent, you get 5th level Druid spells at level 19 instead of 20 and lose one level of Bardic Music and a 3rd level Bard spell slot/Bard spell known.

    (2) You could squeeze 6th level Druid spells out of your build if you do Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 2/Druid 2/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9, instead, but you're losing Song of Arcane Power at level 12 to get 6th level Druid spells at level 20 that way.

    (3) You can do Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 1/Druid 3/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8 to trade Captivating Melody for 6th level Druid spells and keep Song of Arcane Power.

    No matter what you do, you aren't really getting the stronger Druid heals basically ever. Heal itself is a 7th level spell, which you can only get by going Druid 3/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 from where you are now and you don't get them until level 20. You'll get Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+CL) and Remove Disease at level 12 instead of level 16, though.

    You might ask if you can rebuild using Divine Bard and use Divine Bard spellcasting to qualify for Lyric Thaumaturge and Sublime Chord (adding the Divine Bard spells to the Sublime Chord list, of course, because otherwise there's no point), then use Wizard or Sorcerer to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist... you get access to Restoration at level 11 that way, at least, and you can do Divine Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 2/Sorcerer 2/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8 and keep 5th level Sorcerer spells.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ChaosStar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaVergne, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Which Bard level should I take?

    Quote Originally Posted by El'the Ellie View Post
    Hi folks! Looking for some advice as to how to start rounding out a game in a tabletop game.

    The Character Currently:
    Currently, she is a 6th level human bard, 1st level lyric thaumaturge.

    Her feats so far are Heighten Spell, Melodic Casting, Item Familiar, and Craft Wondrous Item. My DM has allowed psionatrix-like items for schools of spells, so I effectively also have Spell Focus (Enchantment). I've taken Healing Hymn in place of Fascinate/Suggestion.

    Additionally, as part of the game each PC has a strong ability (with no inherent use per day limit). Mine is: Whenever you cast a spell while using a bardic music ability, you can also heal a target within 60' for xd8+your charisma modifier, where x is the level of spell cast. This doesn't work with items like wands or scrolls, but does benefit from Healing Hymn and can be used to damage undead (though we haven't fought many undead so far.)

    My Role:
    In combat, my role so far has mainly been party buffer via bardic music and inspirational boost, and healer thanks to the ability mentioned above. However as we level up, healing is becoming less efficient, and I'm transitioning into an enchantment caster, since our party has damage covered with the other classes (A warblade, a swordsage/monk, a druid, and a Kineticist Psion).

    My Plan:
    The current plan was to take a 2 level dip into Sublime Chord, then druid 1, then Fochlucan lyrist X (DM has waived the evasion requirement). However, I don't have a ton of feats to spare, and would really like Captivating Melody to help out enchantment save DC's. As an enchanter, I'm not sure how much Song of Arcane Power will help, so I'm considering taking an extra level of Lyric Thaumaturge and only take one level of Sublime Chord (though still using FochL to advance Sublime Chord casting). Is there some good case for getting Song of Arcane Power that I'm missing?
    The feats I'm planning on taking are:
    9: Rapid metamagic
    12: Quicken Spell
    15: Metamagic Song
    18: (?)

    I'll happily take item suggestions as well. I've been struggling with healing any non-hitpoint damage as a bard, and bards don't get the good healing in the form of Heal.
    I'd personally take Arcane Hierophant rather than Fochlucan Lyrist, more and better features. Anyway, Caster level increases help Enchantment spells, I think. Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 1/Druid 3/Sublime Chord 2/Arcane Hierophant 8. 9ths for Sublime Chord, 6ths for Druid, 3rds for Bard, 17th Arcane and 11th Druid for Familiar Companion, and Wild Shape as a 11th level Druid. If your DM allows retraining then you could swap 1 of those Bard Levels to Lyric Thaumaturge, or 2 if you swap one of your feats for Extra Music. If you don't want to go for Song of Arcane Power then grab another level of Arcane Hierophant.

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