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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Currently LVL 3 Hexblade

    Str10
    Dex14
    Con14
    Int8
    Wis12
    Chr17

    Half Elf Urchin, prof athletics, deception, intimidation, perception, persuasion, stealth.

    Incantations, improved pact weapon, fiendish vigor.

    Pact of the blade

    Up until now Iíve been sword and board/chain shirt on D, & hex. Since pact of blade and improved pact weapon, Iíve either been using a glave or maul.

    Averaging about 17 points a hit, for non-critical with hex.

    Plan for progression:

    Elven Advantage at level 4, continue with maul and false life for heals when needed.

    Level 5, Thirsting blade, swap out fiendish vigor for Eldritch Smite. Start experimenting with nukes.

    Maybe go sword and board for level 5.

    Level 6, dip fighter for 2 weapon fighting. Switch to 2 weapons. Add animal handling

    Level 7, Rogue add acrobatics start advancing to Swashbuckler & replace hex for sneak attack & add a second nuke on crits.

    Level 9, (3 Swashbuckler) multiple ways to get advantage & expanded sneak attacks with panache & fancy footwork for maximum movement.

    Probably level both rogue and hexblade after 9, no solid plan.

    But I love the idea of a mounted hexblade swashbuckler/dungeon crawler

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Just a few comments.

    1) If you are using point buy for your stats you still have 2 points to spend. If you rolled them, then please ignore :)

    2) "Averaging about 17 points a hit, for non-critical with hex."

    This is due to bias in your observations (you only remember the good rolls), very lucky dice or a misinterpretation somewhere.

    Average damage for a glaive with hex, improved pact weapon and your stats is d10+d6+3 +1 = 5.5+3.5+3 +1 = 13 not 17.

    3) I find Eldritch Smite to be a trap for Warlocks before tier 3 since they only have 2 spell slots and there are a lot of spells that a warlock might like to use instead.
    - Darkness + devils sight
    - hex
    - Shadow of Moil (at level 7)
    - plus all the utility spells like Misty Step for that grappled situation, Fly, Counterspell and many others.
    Taking Eldritch Smite typically means that you can't spend the spell slots when you need them and some of those slots will let you do a lot more damage over time than one smite. There are times when the smite is cool or you get to roll a lot of dice but it is rare enough that I don't find it a worthwhile trade over other invocations.

    I have a 9th level character (8th level hexblade warlock/1st level shadow sorcerer) focused on melee combat with PAM and GWM and my spell slots and invocations are far too useful to spend on Eldritch Smite.

    4) Elven advantage is only useful if you actually have advantage on attacks.

    The best ways for a warlock to do this are Darkness+Devils sight, Shadow of Moil, Greater Invisibility (fey warlock), Familar (Ritual caster/tome warlock/Magical Secrets). Rogue bonus action hide but generally only effective for ranged attacks since you usually can't run in to melee attack while staying hidden.

    If you have someone to knock your opponents prone and you are within 5' then you can also get advantage but your character isn't built to do this yourself. I'd recommend taking darkness+devils sight if you are planning on Elven Advantage, otherwise it isn't much use except to bump your charisma by 1.

    5) Thirsting blade is NOT extra attack. It gives you a second attack when taking the attack action but only with your pact weapon. You don't get another attack with your hex warrior weapon for example. You also can't use the additional attack to use shove or some other type of attack since Thirsting blade specifies an additional attack with your pact weapon. This may not matter but I'm not sure I would go dual wielding with this character. You might be better off taking the GWM feat and using things like shadow of moil and darkness+devils sight to generate advantage which will trigger the elven advantage ability making GWM much more reliable.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Very much appreciate the input!

    Swashbucklers get advantage in single combat and the other ways rogues get advantage. I was hoping to replace hex damage with the increased likelihood of situational sneak attacks, and using my bonus action for offhanded hits, & theoretically I could get 3 sneaks & 3 hex hits if I didnít use my bonus action. Iím thinking due to increased mobility I would be getting advantage a lot & love the idea of keeping misty step in the bag. I was just thinking of busting out the nuke on cursed targets when I have advantage (30% crit per hit, probably high value targets).

    I am considering darkness/devil sight combo swap for Eldritch Smite, situational, but could be a life saver.
    Last edited by Swimbley; 2019-09-10 at 05:37 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    where South is East

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimbley View Post
    Level 6, dip fighter for 2 weapon fighting. Switch to 2 weapons. Add animal handling
    Why would you get an extra skill here?

    And TWF is... not the best pick. Dueling style would add +4 and still allow for a shield. I'd just skip this whole dip and go straight to rogue.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Youíre right, got confused with rogue who does get a skill, so no animal, would have had to have gotten that from one of the 2 Half Elf bonuses. :(. Thanks for the input, the reasoning for TWF is attack mod for off hand, which would be charisma of +4 to damage & attack off hand. If I am correct I would have my pact weapon & hexblade weapon tuned to charisma. So, bonus attack would have +4 to damage. The idea being that sneak attacks could replace hex & or augment hex at a certain point, with a bonus off hand attack.

    Still kind of new, last time I played was 3.5 about a decade ago? So, I do appreciated the help and torture testing of logic.

    So, just skip the possible bonus action attack, but doesnít that negate a possible 3rd sneak hit, and hex if applied? By first rogue on all advantage attacks Iíd be rolling 3D 20 damage x3 + 2d 6 x3 if they are all hits and I have hex on, by Swashbuckler it could be damage x3 + 9d6 with hex. I guess Iím just not too sure how often Iíd use the bonus action for attacks, seems like a substantial increase in possible output, if it were frequently used?

    I guess I see your point though, itís an offset of ac vs an extra attack you might only use every other round, maybe.
    Last edited by Swimbley; 2019-09-10 at 07:53 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    where South is East

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimbley View Post
    So, just skip the possible bonus action attack, but doesnít that negate a possible 3rd sneak hit, and hex if applied?
    SA is once per turn.
    SA requires a finesse weapon, mace is not one of those.
    TWF requires light weapons, mace is not one of those.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimbley View Post
    Very much appreciate the input!

    Swashbucklers get advantage in single combat and the other ways rogues get advantage. I was hoping to replace hex damage with the increased likelihood of situational sneak attacks, and using my bonus action for offhanded hits, & theoretically I could get 3 sneaks & 3 hex hits if I didnít use my bonus action. Iím thinking due to increased mobility I would be getting advantage a lot & love the idea of keeping misty step in the bag. I was just thinking of busting out the nuke on cursed targets when I have advantage (30% crit per hit, probably high value targets).

    I am considering darkness/devil sight combo swap for Eldritch Smite, situational, but could be a life saver.
    Swashbucklers unfortunately do not get advantage in single combat. They CAN sneak attack if they have no one adjacent but they don't get advantage on the attack roll when doing so. Swashbucklers can also move away from an opponent without triggering opportunity attacks after attacking them which makes them very good skirmishers.

    Also, as mentioned you are limited to one sneak attack on your turn. It is possible to trigger additional sneak attacks at other points in the combat round using a variety of tricks but not typically on your turn. As a result, no matter how many attacks you make on your turn, only one of them can add a sneak attack while hex damage is added to every attack that hits the target that has the hex.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Again, very grateful for all the help guys!

    I never used a mace, mostly a maul like 90% of the time since I got pact of the blade/improved pact weapon. One time I used a glave, attacking from 2nd rank behind our Paladin and Warrior in a cavern. Itís super handy to be able to swap out whatever weapon you need. Anyways, was going to shift to light/finesse if I went 2 weapons.

    And on the updated swashbuckler information, suddenly Iím envisioning a more Oberyn Martel personality. Starting to see why everyone is going polearm. I really like the swashbuckler idea, but many of the hexblade incantations and features could be made to emulate that.

    Again, very grateful guys, still like the idea of skirmishes with swashbuckler though, thematically, mulling it over, trying to visualize combat. Itís not easy.
    Last edited by Swimbley; 2019-09-10 at 09:03 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimbley View Post
    Plan for progression:

    Elven Advantage at level 4, continue with maul and false life for heals when needed.
    You may already know this, but note that Elven advantage first requires you to actually get advantage. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Swashbuckler Rogue doesn't give you any way to get advantage.

    I don't think Fiendish Vigor should be considered "healing". 1d4+4 temporary hit points (you are always casting it as a 1st level spell) isn't a lot, especially since you can't cast it on other people. Also, it doesn't stack (if you cast it a second time, the new temporary hit points replace the old ones). Your action would better be spent drinking a healing potion (they are cheap and can be bought almost everywhere).

    A cool idea you may not have considered: If you take the Improved Pact Weapon invocation then you can summon a box as your pact weapon. Sneak Attack works with bows. :-)

    You can be a mounted hexblade/swashbuckler who can run around shooting people at range (with sneak attack) or leap off the mount and stab them in melee (with sneak attack)!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: Hexblade/Swashbuckler build/input

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimbley View Post
    Very much appreciate the input!

    Swashbucklers get advantage in single combat and the other ways rogues get advantage. I was hoping to replace hex damage with the increased likelihood of situational sneak attacks, and using my bonus action for offhanded hits, & theoretically I could get 3 sneaks & 3 hex hits if I didnít use my bonus action. Iím thinking due to increased mobility I would be getting advantage a lot & love the idea of keeping misty step in the bag. I was just thinking of busting out the nuke on cursed targets when I have advantage (30% crit per hit, probably high value targets).

    I am considering darkness/devil sight combo swap for Eldritch Smite, situational, but could be a life saver.

    Thanks for your help on this, it would probably be viable to m.c. Hexbuckler, but itís pretty broken. Going to take the advice on EA, GWM without multiclassing our until after lifedrinker if I do at all.

    Now about survival 😂 till then.

    Probably best to roll a rogue, if I want to swashbuckle
    Last edited by Swimbley; 2019-09-12 at 02:03 PM.

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