The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Hey there,

    It's pretty much all in the title. I know of Incarnate Construct and I've read all of the shenanigans tied to that. I was just wondering if there was some way, no matter how roundabout or wacky, to do something similar without removing the things that made that entity special? I get the type change and maybe the loss of immunities, obviously.

    This is more a theoretical question I had so any level of optimization and basically anything not homebrew is in play.

    Just as an example, the idea is to take something like a Shadesteel golem and turn that into a...Humanoid? Giant? Monstrous humanoid? And that (insert type here) still has non-construct specific abilities of that Shadesteel golem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Is soulfused construct close enough? That will get you the Living Construct subtype and all the changes in traits that goes with it, so a number of construct immunities are out. You're definitely living now, and you can benefit from consumables so that seems pretty organic.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Is soulfused construct close enough? That will get you the Living Construct subtype and all the changes in traits that goes with it, so a number of construct immunities are out. You're definitely living now, and you can benefit from consumables so that seems pretty organic.
    Probably pretty close if the construct in question is already one composed of living parts. IIRC the example monster was already like that? I know there's other constructs built similarly.

    Not exactly what I was looking for but I wasn't expecting to get a perfect answer anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    A Sauna in Hell
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    I think soulfusing and then using a template ritual from Savage Species would work, but that's rough terrain, with plenty of flying books to dodge before you can get to your objective.
    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Honestly the fastest way to make a paladin fall is to cast the grease spell or to trip the paladin.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    What you need is a Blue Fairy.

    But I'm not sure how you avoid ending up with a real boy.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    I think soulfusing and then using a template ritual from Savage Species would work, but that's rough terrain, with plenty of flying books to dodge before you can get to your objective.
    I did look at the SS content and it gets a little rocky. Some of it is REALLY open ended. It's still dangerous terrain even with all of this being completely theoretically and not intended for some sort of game.

    That said, It'd make an interesting backstory for new races now that I'm thinking about it a bit more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Urrel View Post
    What you need is a Blue Fairy.

    But I'm not sure how you avoid ending up with a real boy.
    At that point it'd feel like some divine intervention. Also, mechanically speaking, probably just the same as animating a puppet then using incarnate construct anyway.

    Makes me wonder where the Blue Fairy fits into the Disney cosmology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Well, Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP) can turn any corporeal creature into an Aberration, including golems.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Asmotherion's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Polymorph Any Object; When you're in an Antimagic Field you regain your construct form.

    Stone Body does give you some construct traits for the duration of the spell. Persist it daily.

    The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.

    Please help/contribute in creating the: Complete list of Magically Created Constructs, Elementals etc

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.
    Is this where the old joke about prosthetics being inherently evil in D&D comes from?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    unseenmage's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Middle of nowhere USA.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    A permanent custom magic item of Greater Humanoid essence plus a bunch of other items that mimic a Construct's native type immunities is the best I can think of.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tula, Russia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Do you know about the origin of Hellforged Devils (Dragon #306)?
    In the past, it were Constructs who worked in the Nine Hells; over ages, they turned into Devils. Shadesteel Devil - how it sound?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Not quite organic but there is the awaken construct spell in the spell compendium. Just gives full mentals to any construct. It is SR yes and will negates, but dweomerkeeper or some such gets around that if needed. Also wish is a thing.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Well, Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP) can turn any corporeal creature into an Aberration, including golems.
    That's a really weird template interaction. Cool but weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    Polymorph Any Object; When you're in an Antimagic Field you regain your construct form.

    Stone Body does give you some construct traits for the duration of the spell. Persist it daily.

    The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.
    I'm not looking for just construct traits. I'm looking at the special abilities that are specifically called out as being removed by things like Incarnate Construct. Like in the earlier example the negatie energy burst and such of a Shadesteel golem. Or it's flight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Do you know about the origin of Hellforged Devils (Dragon #306)?
    In the past, it were Constructs who worked in the Nine Hells; over ages, they turned into Devils. Shadesteel Devil - how it sound?
    I hadn't heard of those before. I'll have to see if I have that issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    Not quite organic but there is the awaken construct spell in the spell compendium. Just gives full mentals to any construct. It is SR yes and will negates, but dweomerkeeper or some such gets around that if needed. Also wish is a thing.
    That fixes the issues of abilities scores.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by CIDE View Post
    That fixes the issues of abilities scores.
    If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

    Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NontheistCleric's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

    Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.
    A similar effect can be achieved by casting Greater Humanoid Essence on the construct in question and then Nar Fiendbond. Slightly more convoluted, but it has the upside of being achievable in-game, by anyone able to cast 7th-level Cleric spells.

    Of course, the resultant creature will be an Outsider, not an Aberration. There may be other type-changing-template-bestowing spells that also work for this method, but I'm not aware of them.

    Nar Fiendbond isn't even an [Evil] spell, so even a good Cleric could do this, though it's probably still an evil act as it creates a half-fiend. It also carries an XP cost of 500 XP per character level of the half-fiend created, so that's another downside.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

    Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.
    Corrupted by the Abyss Soulfused Awakened (Insert construct here). Weird mix but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by NontheistCleric View Post
    A similar effect can be achieved by casting Greater Humanoid Essence on the construct in question and then Nar Fiendbond. Slightly more convoluted, but it has the upside of being achievable in-game, by anyone able to cast 7th-level Cleric spells.

    Of course, the resultant creature will be an Outsider, not an Aberration. There may be other type-changing-template-bestowing spells that also work for this method, but I'm not aware of them.

    Nar Fiendbond isn't even an [Evil] spell, so even a good Cleric could do this, though it's probably still an evil act as it creates a half-fiend. It also carries an XP cost of 500 XP per character level of the half-fiend created, so that's another downside.

    Hadn't thought of any of these. I know Holy Transformation (unless I'm misremembering the name) gives the Archon type/subtype bit I think it's temporary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tula, Russia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    "Transforming" PrC may do it:
    Thrall of Zuggtmoy (Dragon #337) slowly replaces thrall's body with fungal matter, so, at the capstone, it's nothing but fungi - inside and outside; fungi are alive, right?
    If Elementals are "alive enough for you", you may use Elemental Savant PrC (Although, since the thread's name says "organic", you may be forced to use one of those Elementals. )

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    That dryer lint seems right up my alley.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    unseenmage's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Middle of nowhere USA.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    For what it's worth the Pathfinder Worm That Walks template doesn't care what type you are before application and turns you into bio matter once applied.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Crake's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?
    World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
    The new Quick Vestige List

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?
    Depending on how you read the rules, one of the three is true
    1 you can't do it at all
    2 you can do it with a single casting
    3 you can do it with 2 castings, one to remove the immunity, another to make the effect.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

    EDIT:
    No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    unseenmage's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Middle of nowhere USA.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

    EDIT:
    No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living
    Permanent item of Greater humanoid essence might make them alive. Or at least alive enough.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    CIDE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    For what it's worth the Pathfinder Worm That Walks template doesn't care what type you are before application and turns you into bio matter once applied.
    That's all sorts of weird and I love it. Something I'd pull as a DM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?
    Good mix with the other stuff already mentioned tacked on. Too bad it doesn't work on an Elder Eidolon.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Depending on how you read the rules, one of the three is true
    1 you can't do it at all
    2 you can do it with a single casting
    3 you can do it with 2 castings, one to remove the immunity, another to make the effect.
    Prior to hearing the suggestion I wouldn't have thought it was possible at all. Buuuttt this is all a sort of theoretical discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

    EDIT:
    No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living
    Soulfused construct template and/or corrupted by the abyss template would probably count for making it a living creature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Permanent item of Greater humanoid essence might make them alive. Or at least alive enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by CIDE View Post
    Soulfused construct template and/or corrupted by the abyss template would probably count for making it a living creature.
    We could cast Greater Humanoid Essence and then apply the grafts. The spell doesn't need to be perment as the recipient only needs to be living when the graft is applied.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •