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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    My buddy and I were talking about how interesting it would be to play as such a character. Keep in mind this is pretty much a "class" as in it's so powerful on it's on I don't think it should be mixed with an existing class. Think commoner that's immune to magic.

    How could we make this balanced? Should there be any other features?

    Being immune to all magic is extremely powerful, but I would also come with many drawbacks as well. Healing magic wouldn't work, it would be impossible to be buffed in any way, you couldn't travel by magical means, and you couldn't attune to any magical item. Really I'd rule magic items are even magic when used by you. You'd be useless fighting against an enemy immune to non magical damage.

    How could we make this not boring? Make it a skill monkey? Highly social based? Maybe these could be some subclass options?

    Is this a bad idea in general? I know science can be substitute for a lot of magical things. There would need to be a line drawn here I think.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    There is a book series 'Sword of Truth' by Terry Goodkind, in it are a group of people who are 100% immune to magic. Not going anyway with that, just wanted to share.

    Now as far as designing a magic immune player option, there would be some things to consider; namely at what point is a magic effect no longer pure magic and instead part something else?
    Fireball for example. Is the fire magical, or is it just fire created by magic? Is the heat and light magic?
    If you are 100% immune to magic and you look at a Light spell, do you see the illumination effect it has, or is the light not perceivable by you?
    Last edited by Zhorn; 2019-09-15 at 06:59 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    My buddy and I were talking about how interesting it would be to play as such a character. Keep in mind this is pretty much a "class" as in it's so powerful on it's on I don't think it should be mixed with an existing class. Think commoner that's immune to magic.

    How could we make this balanced? Should there be any other features?

    Being immune to all magic is extremely powerful, but I would also come with many drawbacks as well. Healing magic wouldn't work, it would be impossible to be buffed in any way, you couldn't travel by magical means, and you couldn't attune to any magical item. Really I'd rule magic items are even magic when used by you. You'd be useless fighting against an enemy immune to non magical damage.

    How could we make this not boring? Make it a skill monkey? Highly social based? Maybe these could be some subclass options?

    Is this a bad idea in general? I know science can be substitute for a lot of magical things. There would need to be a line drawn here I think.
    Have you thought about making it a subclass? A base class monk fixes some of your issues right away. Also this way you can work towards immunity rather put it down right away if it's balanced or not.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2019-09-15 at 10:15 AM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    in my game, where everyone can choose magic gifts, you can start with "No mage"
    All magic has disadvantage against you. You can't be affected by spells like hold person for longer than 1d4 minus con (min 1) rounds, and you have advantage on all spell saves. And every spell has to roll to hit you, even spell that normally wouldn't like magic missile.
    No one's chosen it though, because of the catch:
    You can't use any magic of your own, to attuned to magic items you make con saves at disadvantage every morning, and of you fail you take psychic damage and can't try to attuned for a week. You can't be healed my any magic unless the character doing the healing makes spell attacks, and your special "protections" still apply. You can't be resurrected, and potions don't work on you at all. And you can't be scried. Even wish spells can't change this.
    When ypur other options, in my high magic world, are two free resistances, or +2 AC forever, or one free immunity, or 1d4 extra damage always, or passive stealth, basically spider sense, and rolling hit dice in combat, this one has never been taken once. Which makes since. These people are also considered the ultimate lower class because where everyone else can do magic, they can't. And even they have a hard time noticing that magic doesn't really affect them.
    Hope this gives some inspiration!
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2019-09-15 at 10:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    I think you could get some mileage out of this but it would take some serious work. Youíd need subclasses and stuff. Note: probably get a lot farther with a Barbarian Subclass or a unique Paladin Oath that trades out spell prep for martial feats.

    Okay: Ultramuggle Class- you and magic just donít mix.
    Subclasses:
    Mukhtar- you hunt magical creatures like the legendary Djinn
    Witch Hunter- you destroy spell casters

    Class
    Spoiler
    Show

    D12 HD
    Medium armor and shields
    Martial Weapons
    Con/Cha saves
    Skills: Survival, Arcana, Nature, Religion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Animal Handling


    L1- Magic Resistance (always have Advantage On saves vs spells and magic effects including breath weapons and auras of nonbeasts) and Item Failure- Magic Items lose their magical properties while in your possession. Magical healing of any sort applies only half the normal benefit.

    L2- 3 Skill/tool Expertise and Focus Failure- you can use your Reaction to cause an item you can see within 120 feet to become inert until beginning of your next turn

    L3- Subclass feature and Wis save Proficiency

    L4/6/8/10/12/16/18 ASI

    L5- 2 attacks

    L6- gain Resistance to damage from Magic weapons and Force

    L7- Subclass feature

    L9- Dex Save Proficiency

    L11- Subclass Feature

    13- reroll save 1/rest

    14- Str save Proficiency

    L15- Subclass feature

    L17- Antimagic field 1/day

    L19- The Eye of Heaven/Hell- Fearing your resilience to even divine and infernal powers, heaven and hell donít want you showing up on their doorstep. When you would normally die, you instead have one hit point at the beginning of your next turn. If your body would be annihilated by the attack or effect, it is not. You can use this benefit a number of times equal to your Con bonus. You regain all uses of this feature after a long rest.

    L20- Mighty Dysjunction- As an action you can destroy an artifact or relic. You must complete a long rest before using this ability again.


    Subclasses

    Mukhtar- focuses on hunting magical creeps
    Spoiler
    Show

    L3- Heavy Armor, Fighting Style
    -Heavy weaponís
    -Twf
    -Shield Wall- whenever you are adjacent to an ally that has equipped a shield you provide ĺ cover to allies other allies.
    -Blindfighting- you do not suffer disadvantage when attacking totally obscured creatures within 5 feet.
    -Pack Tactics: 1/round you can reroll an Attack if you have an ally within 5 feet of the target

    L7- attacks ignore resistances and immunities and you have Evasion and Resistance for stuff like breath weapons and auras.

    L11- Let them fight!- if you reduce a living non beast, nonhumanoid creature to 0 hp without killing it, you can break its will so it serves you. The creatureís CR cannot exceed ⅓ your Ultramuggle Level, round down. The creature rolls its own initiative and acts as you direct.

    L15- 3 attacks/round


    Witch Hunter- focuses of fighting spellcasters
    Spoiler
    Show

    L3- Magic Word Salad- when you see a spell being cast within 60 feet you can make a Performance check opposed by the casterís Concentration check as a reaction to shout a mouthful of arcane nonsense that imbeds itself in the spell. If the caster fails the collected magic ignites dealing Force damage equal to 5x the level of the spell to the caster.

    L7- Spellbreaker- When you cause a creature to lose concentration on a spell the creature takes Force damage equal to 5x the level of the spell. You also get evasion and resistance for damaging spells.

    L11- Magic Eater- when you succeed on a save against a spell you are the only target of you gain temporary hitpoints equal to 3x the level of the spell.

    L15- Magebane- Creatures with Spells cast on them have vulnerability to your attacks.
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-09-15 at 03:28 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    I also made an anti mage class called "bane" or mage bane. If you want, I can post a link.
    my campaign logs
    Spoiler
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    my homebrew
    Spoiler
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    kobold inventor class
    [url]http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587315-kobold-inventor-class-5E-(opinions-wanted)[/url

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    My buddy and I were talking about how interesting it would be to play as such a character. Keep in mind this is pretty much a "class" as in it's so powerful on it's on I don't think it should be mixed with an existing class. Think commoner that's immune to magic.

    How could we make this balanced? Should there be any other features?

    Being immune to all magic is extremely powerful, but I would also come with many drawbacks as well. Healing magic wouldn't work, it would be impossible to be buffed in any way, you couldn't travel by magical means, and you couldn't attune to any magical item. Really I'd rule magic items are even magic when used by you. You'd be useless fighting against an enemy immune to non magical damage.

    How could we make this not boring? Make it a skill monkey? Highly social based? Maybe these could be some subclass options?

    Is this a bad idea in general? I know science can be substitute for a lot of magical things. There would need to be a line drawn here I think.
    i actually had a thought for a race of crystalline humanoids who are immune to all damage types except thunder, bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing which they were vulnerable to and they excel at casting magic and have advantage against all other magically induced status conditions
    Last edited by KittenMagician; 2019-09-15 at 01:35 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    How could we make this balanced?
    I'm not sure that's possible.

    Leaving aside the healing issue (and yes, such players will beg borrow and/or steal a nonmagic form of instant healing, "does psionic count?" eyeroll eyeroll) if you look at almost any supernatural monster in any fantasy setting (movies, games, TV) a lot of what makes them dangerous is magic. Medusa? Magic. Dragons? That breath isn't natural, so, magic. Ghoul paralysis? Also there's the bookkeeping part. The player will argue that wearing magic armor doesn't actually affect them, getting the AC bonuses, and weapons too, but will argue that the weapons used on them will suddenly lose their plusses.

    Basically, what you're suggesting is a nightmare of paperwork. Even in 3/3.5 when some monster abilities are helpfully identified as nonmagic (Ex/Su/Sp) this will still be a headache.

    Alternatively, look at it another way: pick whatever super hero franchise/setup you can think of. Eventually, there's a character whose only ability is the Everything Proof Shield. True, they sometimes also have the ability to neuter other people's powers but in other cases it's as simple as a dude with kryptonite armor or Grand Admiral Thrawn who made an anti-Force aura.

    It's often regarded as a cheat.

    Or, look at it yet another way. Your party's fighter, wizard, rogue and cleric come around the corner and there's the main villain of the campaign, standing up from his throne and grabbing his sword appropriately adorned with skulls and black gems. Alright, this is it! This is the big showdown! Here we go!

    "Oh, and the villain is 100% immune to all magic."

    What's the wizard's reaction? He gets to look at his list of fireball, magic missile, hold person etc etc and says "Well, I guess I'll sit this one out. I have disintegrate, but his armor and weapons are probably magic and even if they break, then we don't get to keep them." He watches the rest of the encounter sprawled over the throne, probably drinking heavily.

    Magic resistance is a big enough pain, some editions more than others. Magic immunity just rules out too much, both for you and the players. I don't recommend it.

    I can 100% get behind a player class that's designed to combat magic and has heavy resistances to help. But immune? I don't like the idea of a name-level sorcerer throwing magic hyperdeath v down at a level 3 peon and the level 3 peon saying "Pting!" and not even blinking.

    I urge you to reconsider.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    I think if you read the class I whipped up it presents a fairly viable system. I kept it at half healing (and only if someone else applies it since anything you touch isnít magic. Half heals and D12 hit dice is probably viable with the Resting system. Though if you took the Healer and Inspiring Leader feats you could probably get by with no magic heals.

    The class is heavy on feats making that viable. Reaction dependent features so you arenít generally locking out every caster on a field unless itís just the one and bollocks if he can quick cast or has a legendary action.

    Subclasses differentiate which kind of magic you nerf hard, monsters or spell casters. You arenít immune to conditions but the level 1 magic resistance and subclass dependent limited evasion give you a kind of limited immunity.

    The level 17-20 ie epic powah is where the absolute magic nerfs happen. I admit the heaven doesnít want me and hells afraid Iíll take over feature might be a bit much, probably trade that out for the half Orc resilience trait and call it a day.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhorn View Post
    There is a book series 'Sword of Truth' by Terry Goodkind, in it are a group of people who are 100% immune to magic. Not going anyway with that, just wanted to share.

    Now as far as designing a magic immune player option, there would be some things to consider; namely at what point is a magic effect no longer pure magic and instead part something else?
    Fireball for example. Is the fire magical, or is it just fire created by magic? Is the heat and light magic?
    If you are 100% immune to magic and you look at a Light spell, do you see the illumination effect it has, or is the light not perceivable by you?
    I would think if a fireball was dropped on you, you would not feel heat, be burned, or see the light from it. I'd say that any fire from a fireball should be considered magical. Of course If you're in a house that gets fireballed, you would be just as susceptible to the house crumpling down on you as anybody and also any clothing or items you were wearing or carrying would not benefit from your immunity.
    I would think if you were standing in the dark and somebody casts the Light spell, you wouldn't notice just as you would see an invisible creature as normal. Obviously like everything else some things would require a DM ruling such as Dragon's breath weapons. They're not magical in 5e right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Have you thought about making it a subclass? A base class monk fixes some of your issues right away. Also this way you can work towards immunity rather put it down right away if it's balanced or not.
    I just think giving any Monk magical immunity would be far too strong. I don't think this should get ANY offensive buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I think you could get some mileage out of this but it would take some serious work. Youíd need subclasses and stuff. Note: probably get a lot farther with a Barbarian Subclass or a unique Paladin Oath that trades out spell prep for martial feats.

    Okay: Ultramuggle Class- you and magic just donít mix.
    Subclasses:
    Mukhtar- you hunt magical creatures like the legendary Djinn
    Witch Hunter- you destroy spell casters

    Class
    Spoiler
    Show

    D12 HD
    Medium armor and shields
    Martial Weapons
    Con/Cha saves
    Skills: Survival, Arcana, Nature, Religion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Animal Handling


    L1- Magic Resistance (always have Advantage On saves vs spells and magic effects including breath weapons and auras of nonbeasts) and Item Failure- Magic Items lose their magical properties while in your possession. Magical healing of any sort applies only half the normal benefit.

    L2- 3 Skill/tool Expertise and Focus Failure- you can use your Reaction to cause an item you can see within 120 feet to become inert until beginning of your next turn

    L3- Subclass feature and Wis save Proficiency

    L4/6/8/10/12/16/18 ASI

    L5- 2 attacks

    L6- gain Resistance to damage from Magic weapons and Force

    L7- Subclass feature

    L9- Dex Save Proficiency

    L11- Subclass Feature

    13- reroll save 1/rest

    14- Str save Proficiency

    L15- Subclass feature

    L17- Antimagic field 1/day

    L19- The Eye of Heaven/Hell- Fearing your resilience to even divine and infernal powers, heaven and hell donít want you showing up on their doorstep. When you would normally die, you instead have one hit point at the beginning of your next turn. If your body would be annihilated by the attack or effect, it is not. You can use this benefit a number of times equal to your Con bonus. You regain all uses of this feature after a long rest.

    L20- Mighty Dysjunction- As an action you can destroy an artifact or relic. You must complete a long rest before using this ability again.


    Subclasses

    Mukhtar- focuses on hunting magical creeps
    Spoiler
    Show

    L3- Heavy Armor, Fighting Style
    -Heavy weaponís
    -Twf
    -Shield Wall- whenever you are adjacent to an ally that has equipped a shield you provide ĺ cover to allies other allies.
    -Blindfighting- you do not suffer disadvantage when attacking totally obscured creatures within 5 feet.
    -Pack Tactics: 1/round you can reroll an Attack if you have an ally within 5 feet of the target

    L7- attacks ignore resistances and immunities and you have Evasion and Resistance for stuff like breath weapons and auras.

    L11- Let them fight!- if you reduce a living non beast, nonhumanoid creature to 0 hp without killing it, you can break its will so it serves you. The creatureís CR cannot exceed ⅓ your Ultramuggle Level, round down. The creature rolls its own initiative and acts as you direct.

    L15- 3 attacks/round


    Witch Hunter- focuses of fighting spellcasters
    Spoiler
    Show

    L3- Magic Word Salad- when you see a spell being cast within 60 feet you can make a Performance check as a reaction to shout a mouthful of arcane nonsense that imbeds itself in the spell. The caster must make an opposed Concentration check to successfully cast the spell. On a failure the collected magic ignites dealing Force damage equal to 5x the level of the spell to the caster.

    L7- Spellbreaker- When you cause a creature to lose concentration on a spell the creature takes Force damage equal to 5x the level of the spell. You also get evasion and resistance for damaging spells.

    L11- Magic Eater- when you succeed on a save against a spell you are the only target of you gain temporary hitpoints equal to 3x the level of the spell.

    L15- Magebane- Creatures with Spells cast on them have vulnerability to your attacks.
    Wow that's very well thought out. I like it although it's not what I'm looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    I also made an anti mage class called "bane" or mage bane. If you want, I can post a link.
    Sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I'm not sure that's possible.

    Leaving aside the healing issue (and yes, such players will beg borrow and/or steal a nonmagic form of instant healing, "does psionic count?" eyeroll eyeroll) if you look at almost any supernatural monster in any fantasy setting (movies, games, TV) a lot of what makes them dangerous is magic. Medusa? Magic. Dragons? That breath isn't natural, so, magic. Ghoul paralysis? Also there's the bookkeeping part. The player will argue that wearing magic armor doesn't actually affect them, getting the AC bonuses, and weapons too, but will argue that the weapons used on them will suddenly lose their plusses.

    Basically, what you're suggesting is a nightmare of paperwork. Even in 3/3.5 when some monster abilities are helpfully identified as nonmagic (Ex/Su/Sp) this will still be a headache.

    Alternatively, look at it another way: pick whatever super hero franchise/setup you can think of. Eventually, there's a character whose only ability is the Everything Proof Shield. True, they sometimes also have the ability to neuter other people's powers but in other cases it's as simple as a dude with kryptonite armor or Grand Admiral Thrawn who made an anti-Force aura.

    It's often regarded as a cheat.

    Or, look at it yet another way. Your party's fighter, wizard, rogue and cleric come around the corner and there's the main villain of the campaign, standing up from his throne and grabbing his sword appropriately adorned with skulls and black gems. Alright, this is it! This is the big showdown! Here we go!

    "Oh, and the villain is 100% immune to all magic."

    What's the wizard's reaction? He gets to look at his list of fireball, magic missile, hold person etc etc and says "Well, I guess I'll sit this one out. I have disintegrate, but his armor and weapons are probably magic and even if they break, then we don't get to keep them." He watches the rest of the encounter sprawled over the throne, probably drinking heavily.

    Magic resistance is a big enough pain, some editions more than others. Magic immunity just rules out too much, both for you and the players. I don't recommend it.

    I can 100% get behind a player class that's designed to combat magic and has heavy resistances to help. But immune? I don't like the idea of a name-level sorcerer throwing magic hyperdeath v down at a level 3 peon and the level 3 peon saying "Pting!" and not even blinking.

    I urge you to reconsider.

    I know it would be hard, and probably wouldn't work. Just fun to think about.


    On a slightly separate note, I also think it would be interesting to play a character with a natural 5-10ft aura that basically acts like an antimagic field. Like the one guy on Heroes tv show.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    As others have giving flat out immunity is way too much even if you ban them from using any kind of magic and their benefits. The reason is that 5e spell-buffing basically assumes that you have one good and maybe one other smaller one of a similar level. This is in exclusion to one serious debuff or control..etc due to concentration that is often subject to a save. Plus 5e in its simplicity has made many previous active special creature abilities to control you as innate spells. Also it is far easier to damage than to heal. As such the ability to always save your character from terrible effects and damage is going to vastly outweigh the loss of being healed and buffed. Especially in early level.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Are we talking complete, total and actual immunity to all magic or functional immunity in the sense that you might as well not bother? There are smatterings of precedent like the Rakshasa but if it's the former that would be exceedingly difficult to pull off well without feeling cheap and unfun.

    You could do a slow buildup, say level 1 you start unaffected by cantrips and every odd level increasing the spell level that doesn't affect you to a max of 9th at level 19 (or a 2 level space between when full casters get their highest level slots and when you become immune to them).
    Intersperse that with other features like disadvantage to hit you with magic attacks, resistance to magic damage, advantage on saves vs magic, etc. You will of course have to provide items like ASIs, Extra attack, etc as well otherwise you won't be building a class so much as a gimmick.

    One way to bypass the 'intricacies' that players might start coming up with (eg 'the magic armor isn't affecting me directly so I should get the AC bonus') is to extend the null-magic to the space you occupy like a miniature antimagic zone instead of just contact with you. Comes with its own problems but it's a thought.

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    I'd started a monk subclass with a similar concept a while ago, and have gone ahead and posted it here.

    Mainly, it gets deflect magic (A knockoff of the monk's deflect missiles) at a low level, resistance of magic damage and an additional defensive spell at 11th, and a modified version of the Antimagic Field spell as the subclass capstone.

    If you're fighting against a character with this, it can make a buffer PC feel good compared to a blaster, and if your PC plays this subclass it lets them feel strong against a spellcaster despite being a martial character. Note that most dedicated spellcasters will want some minions sunning interference anyway, so magic immunity isn't going to automatically destroy them.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Character/class that is 100% immune to ALL magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post

    Wow that's very well thought out. I like it although it's not what I'm looking for.
    Thanks for the praise, but if it's not, then you'll have to be more specific. Based on your initial description you've got to think of this: at level 15+ Wizards can Antimagic Field for 10 minutes, twice a day, using their 8th and 9th level slots. So that's what you're balancing that ability against.

    When designing the class and the features you need to conceptualize its general applicability and what will make it distinct from other classes.

    Immune to all Magic fairly distinct but so extremely limited it's either useless (being immune to all magic means nothing if a giant is kicking your head in, so what is the class getting to deal with those kinds of challenges) or it makes a combat an unfun drudge (The party can leave you alone in a room to punch a lich to its true death, making 1 attack a round.) With that kind of swing and the vast chasm of nothing in between, you will, in no uncertain terms, be unable to balance it.

    Extrapolating possible applications and forms of magic immunity, deconstructing it, and spreading the pieces out across 20 levels, you can cobble something workable together. However, the more you want to cut out and trade in for that core identity of "Absolute Magic Null" (fewer attacks for stronger antimagicness, weaker weapon and armor proficiencies for more antimagicness, etc) the more you'll create something that is meaningless most of the time and far too good in its niche.

    Looking at my pass, rough as it is, you have a class with a clear identity that is functionally realized in a balanced way by level 7 (Proficient in most saves, advantage on saves vs magic, and no damage or effect on a successful save against a wide variety of magic effects). That's virtual immunity with only a few lucky spells catching you up. You're antimagic nature lets you injure foes that are normally magically resilient. You have subclass features and a plethora of chances to take feats that will make you distinct in performance and application from your peers.

    Further, when you hit tier 3 and 4, you get closer and closer to that absolute value of "all magic is reduced to 0", achievable at level 20 when you can annihilate the Hand of Vecna and Book of Vile Darkness over the weekend.

    I even managed to work in a classic bad guy/antihero archetype of "use their own kind against them" with the Mukhtar (see the Aladdin cartoon wiki for more details on Mukhtars).

    Another option would be to look into some kind of Antimagic/Void Essence user. The Anima (spanish RPG) system introduced something like that later in its run. It granted a bunch of unique quasimagical abilities. Those were cool and flavorful, but far afield of "what if Muggle."

    Good luck!

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