Is there a Pathfinder version of Vow of Poverty anywhere?

[BlueWitch]

I don't mean the lame Monk vow one. We've all seen that.

I meant like an updated "Pathfinder-ized" version of the Book of Exalted one.
Yes, I know it was looked upon as a pretty terrible feat, but for this character (who is an NPC) it really works.

I could just port the 3.5 one but I'm open to some Homebrew! xD

[Psyren]

I could just port the 3.5 one but I'm open to some Homebrew! xD

Is there anything specific stopping you? If you want to tweak it further we can suggest ways to do that.

[BlueWitch]

Is there anything specific stopping you? If you want to tweak it further we can suggest ways to do that.

Honestly it's just for seeing how things would have "Upgraded" without making it too overpowered myself. It would have been nice to see what the official writers would have done with it, that's all.

[CIDE]

I don't know of any such homebrew. I have to ask, though. What's your goal here? Are you wanting to "fix" Vow of Poverty? Keep it mostly as-is? In much the same way as the original how you want to use it, what type of character you're using it on, and the level of magic and wealth of the party kind of decide what can be done here.

[BlueWitch]

I don't know of any such homebrew. I have to ask, though. What's your goal here? Are you wanting to "fix" Vow of Poverty? Keep it mostly as-is? In much the same way as the original how you want to use it, what type of character you're using it on, and the level of magic and wealth of the party kind of decide what can be done here.

To make a long story short, it's a evil Campaign. The players are all evil aligned.

This NPC in particular is a Druid/Bloodrager with 2 levels in Martial Artist (the non Lawful Monk Archetype)

The players are in a Jungle and they are looking for the one who killed a famous Hunter. They were hired to track down this woman with a decent reward in mind. (More to it than that, but this is just the tl:dr).

The party is only 3 players, but only 1 is a dedicated caster. The reason I'm giving the Druid Vow of Poverty is to give them a challenge without steamrolling them.
(Their levels vary. But it's Gestalt game. The Druid will be 1 or 2 levels higher.)

Party:
Ranger/Barbarian (Lv. 10)
Rogue/Barbarian (Lv. 9)
Wizard/Fighter (Lv. 9)

As I said, I think I'm going to make the Druid 1 or 2 levels higher, but Vow of Poverty would be a nice little cherry on top for a sting. I don't want to make it easy. (Her animal companion is a large tiger.)

This is going to be the "Big Fight" of the campaign. It's been building for a while now.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by BlueWitch
As I said, I think I'm going to make the Druid 1 or 2 levels higher, but Vow of Poverty would be a nice little cherry on top for a sting.

Out of curiosity, what's the full build for this druid?

[BlueWitch]

Out of curiosity, what's the full build for this druid?

It's a Gestalt game but we allow it with the Hybrid classes too. So she's a Druid/Bloodrager.
Stats:
Druid/Martial Artist (Monk Archetype) (2)
Druid/Bloodrager (10)

Bloodline = Abyssal (for that Demonic Bulk fam xD)

She's not "Optimized" but I did that on purpose, I don't really intend for her to win, just be formidable [possibly kill one of them] and a pain in the ass to fight.

The Martial Artist (Monk Archetype) stuff is from a Storyline element. She's Unarmed (this was a plot twist in the Campaign) and in case we get a surprise round after they complete the jungle maze. (So much more to it than this, but I'm trying not to type too much lol)

But it did give her free goodies.

If you must know her Build:

Spoiler

Show

General Feats:

Human: Improved Initiative
1st Dodge
3rd Lightning Reflexes
5th Natural Spell
7th Mad Magic
9th Quicken Spell
11th Step-Up (Might get Quick Wild Shape instead...?)

Monk/Martial Artist Feats:
(Only reason she's not a regular Monk is this Archetype doesn't have an Alignment restrict. She is Neutral Good which is part of the story.)

~Improved Unarmed Strike
~Stunning Fist
1st Combat Reflexes
2nd Deflect Arrows

Bloodrager Bonus Feats:
6th Power Attack
9th Toughness
12th Great Fortitude

Bloodrager Bloodline Abilities:
Bloodline: Abyssal (This is also story driven)
~Claws (Natural Attacks)
~Demonic Bulk
~Demon Resistances (Might go Primalist and ditch this for the Bite Rage Power)
~Abyssal Bloodrage

Druid Stuff:
Druid Animal Companion = Tiger
Wild Shape 5/day
Highest Spell level = 6th

Other Noteworthy Stuff:
Improved Uncanny Dodge (from Bloodrager)
Evasion (from Martial Artist, but he Reflex isn't too high)
Greater Bloodrage (Free Spell on entering)

Stats:
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 22
Cha 14

And with Vow of Poverty she'll hopefully be a smidgen harder to beat.

[FaerieGodfather]

One of the "balance" considerations on that Feat was that it was an Exalted Feat, requiring characters to be purely, stupidly Good-aligned. I mean, as long as you're throwing the rules out and doing whatever you want... why not just use it as-written and ignore the parts you're already ignoring?

[BlueWitch]

One of the "balance" considerations on that Feat was that it was an Exalted Feat, requiring characters to be purely, stupidly Good-aligned. I mean, as long as you're throwing the rules out and doing whatever you want... why not just use it as-written and ignore the parts you're already ignoring?

Probably whats gonna happen.....xD

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to get Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty in the build lmao that's like that scene from Spongebob where Squidward eats all of the garbage except for the Krabby Patty!

Well, anyway, if I decide to ditch VoP (since she's pretty formidable as it is) this will be her build.

[Psyren]

Honestly it's just for seeing how things would have "Upgraded" without making it too overpowered myself. It would have been nice to see what the official writers would have done with it, that's all.

BoED was printed very, very early in 3.5's run - I think the only 3.5 splat that predates it is Miniatures Handbook. In other words, the game's attempted balance point was a lot lower then (see designer comments on the Hexblade from another early 3.5 book, Complete Warrior, as an example of this.)

What this means is that the various benefits of Vow of Poverty were likely overestimated (a lot) relative to what you give up to get them. So you shouldn't feel too shy powering them up a bit.

In any event, while PF doesn't have a full-blown Vow of Poverty conversion, I do have a more concrete way to help you. Pathfinder does contain another wealth-lite progression system you can use as a starting point, called Automatic Bonus Progression. If I were converting VoP to PF, I would have the character get those benefits as a replacement, and then layer on the Exalted Feats.

[Saintheart]

In any event, while PF doesn't have a full-blown Vow of Poverty conversion, I do have a more concrete way to help you. Pathfinder does contain another wealth-lite progression system you can use as a starting point, called Automatic Bonus Progression. If I were converting VoP to PF, I would have the character get those benefits as a replacement, and then layer on the Exalted Feats.

I'd go slightly further than that. Exalted feats - with the exception of Words of Creation, which is really good for a bard, and Nymph's Kiss, which is +2 on CHA and an extra skill point per level - are trash. They really are sparkly versions of rubbish, non-scaling +2 feats like Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will. Making matters even worse is that you have to waste your default feat slots qualifying for anything in them, because you can only put Exalted feats in those slots and they have horrible prerequisites. I would consider maybe cutting the number of Exalted feats by about one quarter but then allowing the PC to just treat them as extra, extra bonus character feats.

[BlueWitch]

BoED was printed very, very early in 3.5's run - I think the only 3.5 splat that predates it is Miniatures Handbook. In other words, the game's attempted balance point was a lot lower then (see designer comments on the Hexblade from another early 3.5 book, Complete Warrior, as an example of this.)

What this means is that the various benefits of Vow of Poverty were likely overestimated (a lot) relative to what you give up to get them. So you shouldn't feel too shy powering them up a bit.

In any event, while PF doesn't have a full-blown Vow of Poverty conversion, I do have a more concrete way to help you. Pathfinder does contain another wealth-lite progression system you can use as a starting point, called Automatic Bonus Progression. If I were converting VoP to PF, I would have the character get those benefits as a replacement, and then layer on the Exalted Feats.

Thanks for that link! I definitely have some use for characters being created later with this!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could always use magically enhanced grafts to get magical effects without having magical items. And if you want VoP-like low-wealth flavor, you could always sacrifice magic items and other wealth to them a la Ancestral Relic.

[EldritchWeaver]

There is some stuff in playtest (the Oaths part), but I haven't checked it out myself yet, so I don't actually know if this requires SoP/SoM or not.

[StSword]

Thanks for that link! I definitely have some use for characters being created later with this!

Ultimate Covenant Magic went even further making that like vow of poverty.

Automatic Bonus Progression is a campaign rule, not a character option, by defaut, so everyone is supposed to use it or no one is.

Ultimate Covenant Magic covers making deals with supernatural beings, and it's accessible not only with classes, but with feats.

And one of those feats covers making a pact with a supernatural creature that you sacrifice most of your money but gain the benefit of the Automatic Bonus Progression rules as a supernatural blessing.

Another 3pp book, Alternate Paths: Ascetic Characters, has an investiture system where a character can invest energy from their auras to make temporary magic items, the book was open to how that rule gets implemented in a game. It could be something everyone knows how to do, it could be a class feature, it could be a feat.

So turning that into a pathfinder spiritual successor to vow of poverty would also be possible.

[Psyren]

Automatic Bonus Progression is a campaign rule, not a character option, by defaut, so everyone is supposed to use it or no one is.

While that's true, you can say the same for WBL itself; I'd say that a Vow of Poverty character is using different campaign rules than the rest of the party anyway.