The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Go participate in an Alignment debate, you'll get yourself a respectable post count soon enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicciograna View Post
    Am I the only one who actually doesn't really care about Minrah? Just my opinion here, but I didn't find her a particularly compelling or interesting character, not really happy of seeing her as an addition to the OOTS.

    I guess I'm the only one, right?
    As others have pointed out, no, you're not the only one. I don't mind her as a character, but I also tend to prefer smaller 'core' casts, and the current one is looking more and more cluttered. So I'm surprised that she's apparently coming along (unless she gets randomly murdered by Vampire!Curly or Vampire!Hilgya in the next hour or so).

    I just hope that there's a solid plan behind her inclusion, and that she'll serve an important purpose in the story. Representation is good, and I'm glad there are more female characters than there used to be (the effective replacement of Tsukiko with Oona in Team Evil was particularly deft), but hopefully Minrah's addition to the party will be able to serve a very important story purpose, because Book 7 already looks like it's going to be overloaded with characters.

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    d6 Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Just my take the Belkster is about to be gone six is the party number.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    Just my take the Belkster is about to be gone six is the party number.
    I'll continue to bet against that until we get close to the story's climax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Irrelevant, this was meant as an example of the forum's culture (and what it says of nerd culture in general). Personnally I would have gone with a more recent one but I guess this one was more striking.
    I just went with the first one that came to mind, which probably came to mind because of the Giant's comments that he purposely tried not to sexualize Laurin and people still immediately went there.

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    Thank you, I appreciate it. You can call me "Fyr" or "Fyra" or "'Altari" or any other diminutive if you want, though.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm sure Rich has a good reason for Minrah coming along, and I like her well enough as a character, but I'm not really a fan of the development. In general, the story is rounding 3rd base and heading for home plate which is a weird time to introduce new core characters.

    But more specifically, Minrah is kind of like the Scrappy-Do of the group. She's way, way less formidable than everyone else (potentially forcing folks to go out of their way to save her) while also (at least, at that moment) being inexplicably able to push the rest of the party around. Ok, she's a lot less annoying than Scrappy-Do, but its a pretty good parallel.

    I mean, seriously, everyone else in the party has spent YEARS (of real-time, admittedly not Stick-time) working on strategies and feats and whatnot to even give them a chance to deal with Team Evil. Throwing a level 6 or whatever character into the mix at the last minute is just asking them to get killed against the first group of guards.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2019-09-17 at 11:44 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    To those who say that Minrah would be more of a liability than a help as the others would have to protect her, that is exactly the point Roy raises and she basically told him she doesn’t mind biting it.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    I'm sure Rich has a good reason for Minrah coming along, and I like her well enough as a character, but I'm not really a fan of the development. In general, the story is rounding 3rd base and heading for home plate which is a weird time to introduce new core characters.
    Is it, though?

    I find these 'meta' concerns for Minrah coming along to be a little troubling. I also find some people's expectations that she's going to bite it instead of coming back in some kind of 'gotcha!' writing move to be equally troubling.

    Rich is going somewhere with this and personally I'd like to watch it play out. I've enjoyed her as a character so far, and what she said is true: she gave up on Valhalla then to come back and stop the world from ending. She wants to take action and help however she can.

    And on a more tactical note, having an extra healer on board could let Durkon feel more comfortable with doing more than just patching up damage and remove conditions from the team with his spell slots. At worst she could take care of all the 'off-panel' healing that Durkon usually does. The Order has lived with Elan being a nonentity (besides some +1 bonuses), Belkar failing any Will save that gets thrown at him, etc, in the past. Belkar's brought a housecat to battle and he hasn't gotten in the way or died to incidental AoE. It's also possible that she'll stay out of the way in combat and help in other ways.
    Last edited by Happy Gravity; 2019-09-18 at 01:19 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Well now the 5 man band (+6th ranger) is ruined. We have too Lawful Good dwarf Clerics.
    Current characters:
    Drakirr (Blue Dragonborn Warlock)
    Alyfyldyr Hyalythki (Rock Gnome Wizard)
    Harilidir (Half-elf Bard)
    Kazaharad Akaztkl (Goliath Barbarian)
    Luft (air-genasi druid)
    And of course Lizard Wizard (Lizardfolk Sorcerer)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Hey, Xykon got a mention 🙂

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Is Minrah basically a magikarp? Like, they'll have her hit every enemy for a bit and then have her hang back so she can level up fast. In all seriousness I really like Minrah, she has a very fun personality and honestly I really don't understand why people that have read this comic for so long would think that she'll be useless just cause mechanically speaking she isn't the strongest. I mean, the most cunning character in this book by a fair bit was someone that had an NPC class!
    Last edited by Morgana; 2019-09-18 at 02:40 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Minrah is a lot behind the level of the Order. But so is Lien, and even O-Chul. And both are waiting at Kraagor's to rejoin the Order.

    Also, Minrah just revealed that though she is a crap level cleric, she multiclassed, so probably has a decent level of Fighter. I hope she packs a bigger weapon and a shield this time. We already have a Hammer-Dwarf, she can't be an Axe one due to clerical limitantions. A Mace or Flail one would be a nice change.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Personally it's not the mechanical implications of Minrah that I don't really like, as much as the stress on how cutely spunky she is, sort of "I know I'm not the best but I want to do my part ooh coach send me in ooh coach boo evil boo!". I think that, at least to me, the lowest point was reached at the end of strip 1167, with that long pseudorant to the vampire, reeking of this forced funny zeal in her being staunchily opposed to Evil, ending with that "...and you are bad!!", that wanted to sound like the apex of cuteness, but that to me was overly childish.

    Mind, these are just my impressions, and I'm not claiming that she is a bad character: I don't want to see her die, quite the contrary, I want her on the frontlines to smash Evil because she's a positive character. I just don't really enjoy her being part of the main cast, I feel that the OOTS is more mature - not only mechanically, but also from the standpoint of personality - than her. Heck, even just from the point of view of age: Minrah always stroke (striked?) struck me as a 18-19 years old who's just come of age and who's very enthusiastic and full of will to do, compared to a more mature and experienced OOTS.
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2019-09-18 at 11:29 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    She doesn't come across as cute or childish to me when she does that - just as an extremely bad orator, which is her main thing so far. But to each their own.
    Last edited by hroțila; 2019-09-18 at 07:34 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Gravity View Post
    Is it, though?

    I find these 'meta' concerns for Minrah coming along to be a little troubling. I also find some people's expectations that she's going to bite it instead of coming back in some kind of 'gotcha!' writing move to be equally troubling.
    It wasn't something I expected/wanted when I talked about the 'gotcha!', but it's a possibility that other writers use. I don't think Rich would deliberately set up a gotcha like that with a character he's spent a lot of time establishing. I also doubt she'll be a 'raise the stakes' death in the final battle to show us how really real the Xykon fight is. Whatever she's going to do in the story, it'll be something that required outsourcing rather than giving to a core member of the Order.
    If it had been Not-That'd joining the order, it wouldnt have worked. Even if he's comparable in power to the Oots (debatable), he's not a story character in the way Minrah is. He'd be like Poochy. Time will tell if Minrah is Scrappy Doo. My gut says she won't, but my intestines have done some serious wrongness in their time, so I wouldn't put money on it/in it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Gravity View Post
    It's also possible that she'll stay out of the way in combat and help in other ways.
    That is about the least likely thing she'll do. She's already mixed it up in combat against vampires and spawn, and was originally a Fighter before becoming a Cleric. Convincing her to not fight? A losing proposition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicciograna View Post
    I think that, at least to me, the lowest point was reached at the end of strip 1167, with that long pseudorant to the vampire, reeking of this forced funny zeal in her being staunchily opposed to Evil, ending with that "...and you are bad!!"...
    Her dialogue seems to be deliberately clunky; I think it is part of Rich's effort to give her a unique voice. The
    I carry my fists in my heart {1132}
    line, when juxtaposed with
    -what every worshipper of Thor dreams of from the time when they were a child, writing his name with hearts and stars in the margins of their notebooks. Would you cast dreams forged in glitter ink aside to easily? {1134}
    seems to be a clash in tone. The comedic-effect Ode to Brother Sandstone in 1100 established the "not the best orator" point previously, however.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-18 at 08:49 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicciograna View Post
    Am I the only one who actually doesn't really care about Minrah? Just my opinion here, but I didn't find her a particularly compelling or interesting character, not really happy of seeing her as an addition to the OOTS.

    I guess I'm the only one, right?
    I've heard the general rule that if you ask "am I the only one who...", you're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Or she's about to be killed off on a 'gotcha!' moment and never mentioned again. If Rich gets possessed by Joss Whedon.
    That would be so cruel that I would... do nothing and keep reading despite being super mad and annoyed.
    That does describe my relationship with the ouevre of Joss Whedon.

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    Hey, I'm up to seven, in a couple posts I can add links!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    Just my take the Belkster is about to be gone six is the party number.
    I'll continue to bet against that until we get close to the story's climax.
    I can't see him dying soon, either. Unless by "soon" you mean in comic time, in which case yes, it'll be quite soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Also Ruck but I want to split the post and also not quote some of the middle and THAT IS WHY I AM DOING THIS! View Post
    Everybody here just needs to get a good predictive text keyboard and then post here on mobile so much that "Fyraltari" becomes one of the top suggestions any time you press a capital F.
    I think most mobile phones let you add things to its spell check dictionary one way or another, sometimes even when you don't want it to. ("Just because I once sang a few songs with someone named 'Stoll' there is no reason to keep trying to replace the word 'still,' OK? OK?!")
    Last edited by nabcif; 2019-09-18 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Unbalanced and improperly nested (types of) quotation marks

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    To those who say that Minrah would be more of a liability than a help as the others would have to protect her, that is exactly the point Roy raises and she basically told him she doesn’t mind biting it.
    Yep, she may or may not be all that useful in the final battle, but her getting killed there would not be a tragedy from her point of view. She is clearly not a liability unless someone else makes her a liability.

    She, Lien, O'chul, and the crew of the Mechane are all expendable given that the stakes are the survival of the world. Fortunately for them, the Order has Belkar already on tap to make the necessary final sacrifice at the end (possibly with an assist from V's ability to use arcane magic).

    If 20 more low level characters volunteered to come and help, and they'd fit on the Mechane, I'd probably say that the Order should logically say, "YES! It's about time someone else showed that they care about this too."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Yep, she may or may not be all that useful in the final battle, but her getting killed there would not be a tragedy from her point of view. She is clearly not a liability unless someone else makes her a liability.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    If 20 more low level characters volunteered to come and help, and they'd fit on the Mechane, I'd probably say that the Order should logically say, "YES! It's about time someone else showed that they care about this too."
    And this.

    Personally, I'd expect any dwarves who aren't busy vampire hunting to join with. Remember, they KNOW that if they die in battle, they get a super sweet afterlife, and they also know that there's an impending doomsday clock that might send them all to Hel if they're still alive when it hits. (Actually, now that I think of it, the surviving vampire is probably the only logical reason all the dwarves on panel don't go with the Order... nice writing, Giant!)

    Minrah has the added knowledge about the Snarl, and knowing that even if the vampire threat is ended, she could get unmade if the good guys fail. Presumably the souls in the outer planes are safe, so getting an honorable death with the good guys would be a win for her.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by metaofantioch View Post
    Personally, I'd expect any dwarves who aren't busy vampire hunting to join with. Remember, they KNOW that if they die in battle, they get a super sweet afterlife, and they also know that there's an impending doomsday clock that might send them all to Hel if they're still alive when it hits. (Actually, now that I think of it, the surviving vampire is probably the only logical reason all the dwarves on panel don't go with the Order... nice writing, Giant!)
    Ohhhhh. Yes, between that and the tree hunt and other Council logistics. I feel like I understand the structure of this ending better with your point in mind.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    Just my take the Belkster is about to be gone six is the party number.
    Durkon just said the last vampire wasn't strong enough to turn anyone as powerful as poor Gontor...

    but Minrah isn't nearly as powerful as he was, is she?

    And she probably burned off a lot of her slots in the big fight. Who's to say she, not Hilgya, won't succumb to the vampire? Roy is just asking for trouble saying it's the wrappy uppy hugs and kisses part - he's no genre savvy bard!
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    Quote Originally Posted by drazen View Post
    Durkon just said the last vampire wasn't strong enough to turn anyone as powerful as poor Gontor...

    but Minrah isn't nearly as powerful as he was, is she?

    And she probably burned off a lot of her slots in the big fight. Who's to say she, not Hilgya, won't succumb to the vampire? Roy is just asking for trouble saying it's the wrappy uppy hugs and kisses part - he's no genre savvy bard!
    Minrah is about as powerful as Curly, and luckily has these things called fighter levels that are really useful for if you’ve burned your spell slots. Also, it’s just not a really smart move to do this and then kill her with some minor character from the ending book, Minrah is here to stay (though something bad will happen, but I doubt it will be to Minrah, and it will set up the next book not randomly kill off a major character from this book who didn’t really need to join the Order for the arc to make sense).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicciograna View Post
    stroke (striked?)
    Struck, FYI.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    I’m sure if Minrah comes back in an hour ready to join the party and she happens to be a vampire, Roy will let her join them anyhow.

    Because he promised she could come with, and also because reading a story where people act really, really stupid for no reason is fun.
    Last edited by Dion; 2019-09-18 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I’m sure if Minrah comes back in an hour ready to join the party and she happens to be a vampire, Roy will let her join them anyhow.

    Because he promised she could come with, and also because reading a story where people act really, really stupid for no reason is fun.
    Somehow I doubt that it would happen, though it can be fun to watch dummies being dumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hroțila View Post
    She doesn't come across as cute or childish to me when she does that - just as an extremely bad orator, which is her main thing so far. But to each their own.
    She does seem young and perhaps a bit naive to me. It'll be interesting to see her be a foil for interact with Elan, as he's lost some of that... perhaps some introspection on his part.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Yep, she may or may not be all that useful in the final battle, but her getting killed there would not be a tragedy from her point of view. She is clearly not a liability unless someone else makes her a liability.
    I don't really expect her combat prowess to be critical. Quite the opposite: As someone Redcloak doesn't need to worry about killing quickly, who also hasn't killed or caused the death of numerous goblins in the pursuit of Xykon, and who knows everything Thor asked Durkon to do because she was there when Thor told Durkon; she has a good chance of being heard long enough for Redcloak to hear what Thor has in mind.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by drazen View Post
    Durkon just said the last vampire wasn't strong enough to turn anyone as powerful as poor Gontor...

    but Minrah isn't nearly as powerful as he was, is she?

    And she probably burned off a lot of her slots in the big fight. Who's to say she, not Hilgya, won't succumb to the vampire? Roy is just asking for trouble saying it's the wrappy uppy hugs and kisses part - he's no genre savvy bard!
    Curly* was, as far as we know, a low level cleric. Minrah defeated an at least 9th level Cleric NoName McFangs alone and dragged her body to throw in the sunlight.

    One problem I see Minrah having against Curly* is that they probably knew each other, since both worked at Thor's temple.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-09-18 at 01:23 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I’m sure if Minrah comes back in an hour ready to join the party and she happens to be a vampire, Roy will let her join them anyhow.
    Of course he would! Just after cutting her head and having Durkon cast Resurrection.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  30. - Top - End - #300
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Yeah, why should Durkon be the only one to lose two levels?

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