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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Yeah, I don't remember seeing that, and I just reread not that long ago.
    I'm pretty sure the analogy was only drawn in a forum post. I don't think it was explicitly trying to compare the Holocaust to factory farming or meat-eating - it's more that people (including me) interpreted Malack's comment as a Holocaust reference and Rich clarified that the comparison he was thinking of was closer to modern factory-farm conditions.

    That said, at the time I still thought it was pretty weird that The Giant thought Malack's line would be taken as anything but a Holocaust reference.
    Last edited by Emanick; 2019-09-19 at 11:30 PM.
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    Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Player: Bob twists the vault door super hard, that should open it.
    DM: Why would you think that?
    Player: Well, Bob thinks it. And since Bob has high Int and Wis, and a lot of points in Dungeoneering, he would probably know a thing or two about how to open vault doors.
    Ah yes, the Dungeon-Kruger effect.

  2. - Top - End - #362

    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Typical writer's blindspot. We know what we meant, so we tend to forget that other interpretations are not only possible but likely.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    While we're rambling all over the place, and some of it is about Nale, and none of it has anything whatsoever to do with the current strip, I figure here's a good place for a minor Nale-theory that I don't know that I've heard brought up before: what if V kept the pleather hilt wrap from the dagger (which V mentioned removing before giving the dagger to Belkar) because it managed to have some of Nale's blood splashed on it, and V plans to use this as a bargaining chip with Sabine?

    It's just vaguely plausible enough that it seems worth forum speculation, but I don't recall it getting much.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Algeh View Post
    While we're rambling all over the place, and some of it is about Nale, and none of it has anything whatsoever to do with the current strip, I figure here's a good place for a minor Nale-theory that I don't know that I've heard brought up before: what if V kept the pleather hilt wrap from the dagger (which V mentioned removing before giving the dagger to Belkar) because it managed to have some of Nale's blood splashed on it, and V plans to use this as a bargaining chip with Sabine?

    It's just vaguely plausible enough that it seems worth forum speculation, but I don't recall it getting much.
    That's a fascinating possibility. I love the theory - it almost certainly won't happen, but IMO there's no reason why it couldn't, either in terms of narrative or plausibility. (Yes, there are narrative reasons why Nale likely won't be coming back, but there's a big difference between "the hilt wrap gets used as a bargaining chip" and "the plan goes off without a hitch, Sabine receives the hilt wrap, AND Sabine survives long enough to find a level 13+ cleric, AND the cleric is willing to resurrect Nale.")
    Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends

    Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Player: Bob twists the vault door super hard, that should open it.
    DM: Why would you think that?
    Player: Well, Bob thinks it. And since Bob has high Int and Wis, and a lot of points in Dungeoneering, he would probably know a thing or two about how to open vault doors.
    Ah yes, the Dungeon-Kruger effect.

  5. - Top - End - #365

    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    There's also the issue that the blood splash may not be Nale's. Tarquin probably murdered a lot of people with that knife.

  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    There's also the issue that the blood splash may not be Nale's. Tarquin probably murdered a lot of people with that knife.
    And there's an awful lot of different fluids in Haley, too, but they only needed a trace of Durkon*'s saliva to use her as a material focus. So long as a trace of the blood is Nale's, it could work (and, let's be real, Tarquin probably cleaned the hilt wrap after every adventure).

    Still, as I said earlier, it almost certainly won't happen.
    Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends

    Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Player: Bob twists the vault door super hard, that should open it.
    DM: Why would you think that?
    Player: Well, Bob thinks it. And since Bob has high Int and Wis, and a lot of points in Dungeoneering, he would probably know a thing or two about how to open vault doors.
    Ah yes, the Dungeon-Kruger effect.

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    Exclamation Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post

    And he doesn't look prejudice at all to me, not toward non-white people at least (his behaviour with women is another story). Among his own party, there is a non-white woman, a white-scaled lizardman, a yellow-furred woman, and it's not clear for the two last guys. Plus his "future wife" is black. And is orange-scaled intendant that he seems to respect.

    Really, i don't see any kind of racial subtext in the whole storyline.
    Counter-point: Remember that we do know that Tarquin seems to have deluded himself into thinking that he's the brilliant leader of the Vector Legion, despite, as I think the Giant pointed out that one time, them actually treating him more like the Order did Elan. Amun-Zora was being forced into marrying him against her will. Kilkil was an low-mid-level administrator flunky Tarquin dragged into mortal peril just so that he could have the traditional token kobold member of the Guild.

    I dont see the racist attitude as a major driver of Tarquin (That award goes to his planet-sized ego and his dramatic obsession), but the more it's brought into spotlight the more I can see what Rich meant. Subtext is well, sub-text.
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    There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    So, yes, the arc with Tarquin did include a statement about white male culture.
    I'm aware of the quote, and I just said that it doesn't match what's in the actual text of the work. So I'm not sure why you think that waving the quote in my face settles anything.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post
    I'm aware of the quote, and I just said that it doesn't match what's in the actual text of the work.
    I get the idea that we may be warming up for yet another "death of the author" side discussion. I'll get the popcorn.

    Back to the current strip: Roy and Belkar sitting in the terminal dwarven temple akabeer hall and, waiting to board their plane the Mechane while pouring down a few beers resonates with me. Have been in that situation numerous times IRL at airports. (Not the only airport / air travel joke in the story either . ... Xykon had one about "tray tables up" but I forget which book that was in)

    I get the nagging suspicion that there needs to be another strip or two that resolves Hilgya/Kudzu to close out the book. Sigdi and Durkon are off screen as the strip ends; I think that the next strip will see the four of them interact.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-20 at 08:01 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I get the idea that we may be warming up for yet another "death of the author" side discussion. I'll get the popcorn.

    Back to the current strip: Roy and Belkar sitting in the terminal dwarven temple *** beer hall and, waiting to board their plane the Mechane while pouring down a few beers resonates with me. Have been in that situation numerous times IRL at airports.

    I get the nagging suspicion that there needs to be another strip or two that resolves Hilgya/Kudzu to close out the book. Sigdi and Durkon are off screen as the strip ends; I think that the next strip will see the four of them interact.
    I'll skip the Death of the author, for now, because I doubt I have any novel opinions on it, so I'll talk about the more interesting speculation.

    Durkon and his family/Hilgya and Kudzu make up the last loose end so they will definitely be dealt with, the Thundershield stuff can be mostly resolved in a goodbye strip and one word, but I have no clue what will happen with Hilgya besides we probably won't see her after this book until the final denouement, but that stuff will be dealt with next strip or the one after.

    So predictions for the final strips of the book:
    1181: Minrah dealing with her stuff
    1182: Hilgya and Kudzu dealt with
    1183: Thundershield goodbye (also getting on the Mechane)
    1184: Team Evil
    1185: Final cliffhanger, seeing IFCC, Sapphire Guard, more of Team Evil, Gobbotopia, Girard's Rift, Redmountain Rift, Lirian's rift or New Player (New Player could include characters interacting with the previous two rifts).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    1185: Final cliffhanger, seeing IFCC, Sapphire Guard, more of Team Evil, Gobbotopia, Girard's Rift, Redmountain Rift, Lirian's rift or New Player (New Player could include characters interacting with the previous two rifts).
    I'll toss in a possible Serini somewhere on a mountaintop, in a comfortable dwelling, thinking about her lost diary and something ominous as she reads a letter that she just opened ... possibly related to "your gate is under siege" or something like that.
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    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I'll toss in a possible Serini somewhere on a mountaintop, in a comfortable dwelling, thinking about her lost diary and something ominous as she reads a letter that she just opened ... possibly related to "your gate is under siege" or something like that.
    Sure yeah, she doesn't really qualify as a new player so we can put her in it too, I didn't include the Vector Legion because that would fall under Girard's rift (now we can insult those who guarded them by naming the rifts after them), but Serini along with Team Evil can't really go together under Kraagor's Tomb, so now the possible cliffhangers are: the IFCC, Sapphire Guard/Azure City (Making it more clear who I'm talking about, Hinjo), more Team Evil, Serini, Gobbotopia, Girard's Rift, Dorukan's rift, Lirian's rift or New Player.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    Counter-point: Remember that we do know that Tarquin seems to have deluded himself into thinking that he's the brilliant leader of the Vector Legion, despite, as I think the Giant pointed out that one time, them actually treating him more like the Order did Elan.
    Apparently, i missed this too.

    I dont see the racist attitude as a major driver of Tarquin (That award goes to his planet-sized ego and his dramatic obsession), but the more it's brought into spotlight the more I can see what Rich meant. Subtext is well, sub-text.
    And my whole point is that i don't see this subtext.

    Obviously the Giant know better than me what he meant, but i don't see where he meant this.

    My whole understanding of about 250 strips and an important antagonist have suddenly been blown by a subtext that i just can't find. I reread a part of it yesterday and didn't find a single line of dialogue that seems to be about this.

    So once again, i would be glad if someone can just point out some lines, some example of this subtext in the comic.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Apparently, i missed this too.


    And my whole point is that i don't see this subtext.

    Obviously the Giant know better than me what he meant, but i don't see where he meant this.

    My whole understanding of about 250 strips and an important antagonist have suddenly been blown by a subtext that i just can't find. I reread a part of it yesterday and didn't find a single line of dialogue that seems to be about this.

    So once again, i would be glad if someone can just point out some lines, some example of this subtext in the comic.
    For the first one, read Tarquin's interactions with Miron and Laurin, as well as the first panel of this strip where Malack and V compare him to Elan, showing his teammates have a complete lack of respect for him.

    As for (most of) the second one, well that's a lot more subtexty (his complete lack of respect for women is everywhere and I'm pretty sure that doesn't need to be pointed out) and you can't really point to any specific lines of dialogue, because he lacks respect for anyone besides sort of Nale and Elan, which is mostly his blood, but well don't discount the fact that Elan looks like the base protagonist of a fantasy story, and that (at least to me) is what the Giant is saying, while his blood is the main part of it, Tarquin knows that the stars of a fantasy story are often white men, usually human, with others relegated to secondary roles, and that effects how he treats everyone, the genderqueer elf is a nice secondary character, the white female human is the love interest, Durkon is a brown dwarf, another secondary mentor companion character, and he is perfectly fine with Roy in his place, and that place is the supporting character, the guiding Nick Fury, the minor villain general, the main supporting character, all things the black person can do, but not as the lead (and all of this is exacerbated by his core respect of people in their relation to him, his sexism oozes everywhere but his racism is more of the diet kind, that you probably wouldn't notice after awhile of knowing him, but it is there buzzing in the background).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    As for (most of) the second one, well that's a lot more subtexty (his complete lack of respect for women is everywhere and I'm pretty sure that doesn't need to be pointed out) and you can't really point to any specific lines of dialogue,
    I see your point, but i'd like to raise that you can point to specific panels or lines of dialogue that show his sexism. He explicitly makes sexist jokes, forces women to marry him (including by torturing them), lies to them, uses them, pride himself of his womanizing, and usually treats them like props. And we actually see that, it's not subtext.
    Laurin is the only woman he (seems to) respects and that's probably because she could blow him into pieces without breaking a sweat.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    My whole understanding of about 250 strips and an important antagonist have suddenly been blown by a subtext that i just can't find. I reread a part of it yesterday and didn't find a single line of dialogue that seems to be about this.

    So once again, i would be glad if someone can just point out some lines, some example of this subtext in the comic.
    Don't you find odd that, at the crater scene, the only member of the OOTS that Tarquin decides to spare, besides his son Elan, is the other white human?

    Tarquin was supposed to be slaughtering the rest of the Order because he wanted his son in the lead. Besides, while he has no problem getting the halfling and the dwarf killed - even as they aren't a threat to Elan's leadership - he lets the Order's Second in Command to survive. Exactly the one person Elan will automatically turn in looking for leadership as soon as Roy vanishes.

    "Oh, but he did it because she was Elan's girlfriend". Yeah, do you think the guy with 9 wives gives a dime about that? Next scene, over the boat, Tarquin is already pissed out enough to want to kill her too. But back at the crater, when he feels at control, he assigns a small value to Haley's life that he doesn't recognizes in the other non-human non-white members of the Order.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-09-20 at 09:41 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Don't you find odd that, at the crater scene, the only member of the OOTS that Tarquin decides to spare, besides his son Elan, is the other white human?
    I agree that there's some subtext of Tarquin representing older, more rigid and less diverse methods of storytelling, but that is a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I'll skip the Death of the author, for now, because I doubt I have any novel opinions on it, so I'll talk about the more interesting speculation.

    Durkon and his family/Hilgya and Kudzu make up the last loose end so they will definitely be dealt with, the Thundershield stuff can be mostly resolved in a goodbye strip and one word, but I have no clue what will happen with Hilgya besides we probably won't see her after this book until the final denouement, but that stuff will be dealt with next strip or the one after.

    So predictions for the final strips of the book:
    1181: Minrah dealing with her stuff
    1182: Hilgya and Kudzu dealt with
    1183: Thundershield goodbye (also getting on the Mechane)
    1184: Team Evil
    1185: Final cliffhanger, seeing IFCC, Sapphire Guard, more of Team Evil, Gobbotopia, Girard's Rift, Redmountain Rift, Lirian's rift or New Player (New Player could include characters interacting with the previous two rifts).
    I think Minrah's going to deal with her stuff off-screen, and we'll get three strips dedicated to Hilgya, Kudzu and Sidgi.

    As far as the cliffhanger, I think it'll either be:

    Team Evil finding the gate or Right-Eye's Daughter being introduced, which is the one I support but also probably the less likely of the two.
    Last edited by BasiliskSoldier; 2019-09-20 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    I would like to add the Dark One scrying on something as an entry to the potential cliffhangers list.

    I guess you may file home under team Evil, though.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-09-20 at 10:04 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    I see your point, but i'd like to raise that you can point to specific panels or lines of dialogue that show his sexism. He explicitly makes sexist jokes, forces women to marry him (including by torturing them), lies to them, uses them, pride himself of his womanizing, and usually treats them like props. And we actually see that, it's not subtext.
    Laurin is the only woman he (seems to) respects and that's probably because she could blow him into pieces without breaking a sweat.
    It's subtext because you can't just point out lines of dialogue and say "see, there's him being a racist, and over there, that's another", it's based on thousands of small interactions, and the buildup of many lines of dialogue, perhaps Rich could have done a better job of expressing it, but that would come at the cost of a lot of other interesting stuff in BRitF, sometimes writing is a balancing act and so you can't make the subtext super strong or else it would derail the plot.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasiliskSoldier View Post
    I agree that there's some subtext of Tarquin representing older, more rigid and less diverse methods of storytelling, but that is a stretch.
    I mean the first two things on that list are explicit stuff, because the story doesn't go exactly like a "classic" story he goes crazy, and do you know what is an inherent part of those things? A lack of diversity, it is tied up in older types of stories, and thus the small subtext is better understood in the context of the type of person and beliefs Tarquin represents.
    I think Minrah's going to deal with her stuff off-screen, and we'll get three strips dedicated to Hilgya, Kudzu and Sidgi.
    I just have the feeling that whatever she does will be important and we will see it, but yours makes sense too.

    As far as the cliffhanger, I think it'll either be:

    Team Evil finding the gate or Right-Eye's Daughter being introduced, which is the one I support but also probably the less likely of the two.
    I doubt it will be the first one, because Team Evil needs to do things next book, and once they find the gate they don't have much else to do. But I do like the Right-Eye's Daughter theory, she is first on my list of likely New Players and I imagine she could be involved with several of the others.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I would like to add the Dark One scrying on something as an entry to the potential cliffhangers list.

    I guess you may file home under team Evil, though.
    I'd say yeah, that's Team Evil (and unlikely IMO, I feel like he'll continue to be only a vague character, I also feel there's nothing he could discover that would be useful besides the dead worlds which I doubt will happen due to lowering the stakes).
    Last edited by Schroeswald; 2019-09-20 at 10:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Tarquin is cleary stablished as a male chauvinist and a classist evil tyrant. Why is it that difficult for some people to renconcile with the idea that he has racial prejudices, too? It comes with the territory when you are a bigot, like Tarquin is.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    So once again, i would be glad if someone can just point out some lines, some example of this subtext in the comic.
    The whole idea that some ethnically diverse country in some far away land with all sorts of unusual races and people would have a white male leader is racist.

    You don’t need any text to see that it’s a racist fantasy. It’s right there in full color drawings. I don’t even see how it could be more obvious.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I'd say yeah, that's Team Evil (and unlikely IMO, I feel like he'll continue to be only a vague character, I also feel there's nothing he could discover that would be useful besides the dead worlds which I doubt will happen due to lowering the stakes).
    That depends on wether his agenda is actually what Redcloak thinks it is. We could have a scene where Durkon and Roy discuss Durkon's mission and say something along the lines of "It should go well because all he wants is the goblins getting a fair share so now h can barter with Thor" or something and then a cut-away to the Dark One doing something that shades a completely different light on his character like the previous cliffhanger did for Hel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    The whole idea that some ethnically diverse country in some far away land with all sorts of unusual races and people would have a white male leader is racist.

    You don’t need any text to see that it’s a racist fantasy. It’s right there in full color drawings. I don’t even see how it could be more obvious.
    Oh boy, this thread is gonna get locked.
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  23. - Top - End - #383
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    The problem with Right-Eye's daughter as a cliffhanger is that the reaction of a significant portion of the readers (those who haven't read SoD) would be "OK?". They don't know she exists, and they barely know Right-Eye exists. So introducing her without being able to contextualize her until the next book would fall flat for many readers IMO.
    Last edited by hroþila; 2019-09-20 at 11:03 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #384
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    cool OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Apparently, I missed this too.
    You are not alone. Rich didn't communicate it very well *on screen* since I missed it to on the first read through.

    No worries, his skills as a writer have grown as he's done this comic, so I think that was part of the growing process. He had an idea in his head, and to him that point was clear but it wasn't necessarily clear to all of the readers since Roy has been the leader of the OoTS since strip 0001. It was a bit jarring to me, as I read the story, to see Tarqin - who has not seen Elan in ages, and whose last contact with Elan was when he was age 9 and very much the one who was bullied by Nale, and not the "take charge" son - make this assumption that since Elan was his son me must have been the leader. I am sitting there with about 700+ strips of "Roy is the Leader" going and I go "what?" The way it came across was Tarqin's ego needing his son to be in charge. (And maybe a mechanical game thing about the higher Charisma character having to be a leader, party face?)

    That Rich had some deeper things going on with his caricature of an out of touch with the times elderly male certainly gets lost - if he was trying to sell a racism theme - when one of the females in whom he has a non trivial interest is a woman of color.
    Mixed signals.
    I am glad to see Rich explain what was going on in his mind's eye as he was putting that all together, since I can then go back and read it again and see what it was that Rich was trying to convey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    The whole idea that some ethnically diverse country in some far away land with all sorts of unusual races and people would have a white male leader is racist. You don’t need any text to see that it’s a racist fantasy. It’s right there in full color drawings. I don’t even see how it could be more obvious.
    I think you forgot the blue text. Given that a lot of us play D&D, and that Charisma and leadership often get put together in the game, and that Elan has a high Charisma and apparently looks a heck of a lot like his father (per Haley's obsesrvation when she met Tarqin), the idea that a leader (behind the scenes, since the public leader is a red dragon) is a high Charisma person would not surprise anyone. It's only later, as you meet the other members of the old team, and see the disagreements between Tarqin and Malack, that you begin to see where people of a similar power level don't quite buy into his "I am the leader" schtick (They are all running a long con) that he sells to the Order.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-20 at 11:27 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #385
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That depends on wether his agenda is actually what Redcloak thinks it is. We could have a scene where Durkon and Roy discuss Durkon's mission and say something along the lines of "It should go well because all he wants is the goblins getting a fair share so now h can barter with Thor" or something and then a cut-away to the Dark One doing something that shades a completely different light on his character like the previous cliffhanger did for Hel.
    I assume Thor knows what the plan, but anyway Redcloak is the only one who needs convincing, because all he has to do is cast a ninth level spell slot at the rift (if I understand what Thor said correctly).
    Oh boy, this thread is gonna get locked.
    I've already changed several things in my posts before posting to avoid this.

    Quote Originally Posted by hroþila View Post
    The problem with Right-Eye's daughter as a cliffhanger is that the reaction of a significant portion of the readers (those who haven't read SoD) would be "OK?". They don't know she exists, and they barely know Right-Eye exists. So introducing her without being able to contextualize her until the next book would fall flat for many readers IMO.
    Eh, if it happens it's not going to be someone introducing themselves as Right-Eye's daughter, it's either a goblin chick revealing she is related to Redcloak, or her doing something interesting (investigating the rift, bursting into dwarven lands asking for the Order, attacking Gobbotopia, offering help to Hinjo, watching Team Evil, these are just the ones that popped into my head while writing this I'm sure there are better ways) both things enhanced by reading SoD but still interesting to those who don't read the forums/read SoD (cause reading these forums are a good way to figure out that Redcloak's niece/Right-Eye's daughter is a thing).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  26. - Top - End - #386
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    That Rich had some deeper things going on with his caricature of an out of touch with the times elderly male certainly gets lost - if he was trying to sell a racism theme - when one of the females in whom he has a non trivial interest is a woman of color.
    Mixed signals.
    Since when a racist person refuses to use females of the subject race as sexual toys?

    Racism is about "my people rule, your people obey", rather than "my people prevails, your people gets exterminated", which is more the field of xenophobia. Therefore, racist people love to be surrounded by servants from what he considers the subject races.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-09-20 at 11:30 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #387
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Since when a racist person refuses to use females of the subject race as sex toys?
    That behavior of his, to use women as "sex toys" (your term, I think, not Rich's) takes a while to come out but by the time the arc in BRiTF ends, you can look back and see that pattern as a part of Tarqins overall consistent pattern of behavior: he is a user of people to include his own kids, (and all 8 or 9 of his wives?) and his associates from adventuring days ... when he can get away with it.

    You may be surprised to learn that there are also racist sorts who will not even consider such a liaison, even an abusive one, due to race: as I was growing up I encountered no few people like that - but that's some IRL stuff that we'd best not drag into this discussion that might be getting close to the edge of forum rules anyway.

    (PS: your "therefore" does not necessarily follow, but it can follow, certainly)
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-20 at 11:35 AM.
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    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  28. - Top - End - #388

    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Yeah, that doesn't even begin to scan before knowing the history of slavery. Rape is as much about power as it is lust, if not moreso.

  29. - Top - End - #389
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    You may be surprised to learn that there are also racist sorts who will not even consider such a liaison, even an abusive one, due to race
    Edit: in retrospect, my response doesn’t add to the discussion.
    Last edited by Dion; 2019-09-20 at 03:51 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #390
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    Default Re: OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Since when a racist person refuses to use females of the subject race as sexual toys?

    Racism is about "my people rule, your people obey", rather than "my people prevails, your people gets exterminated", which is more the field of xenophobia. Therefore, racist people love to be surrounded by servants from what he considers the subject races.
    Racism is a subset of xenophobia, though. And all one needs to qualify for either is to consider somebody else a lesser due to their people. Not that because of the way our brain is wired everyone has at least subsconcious xenophobic/prejudiced attitudes to one degree and we all need to be on the look-out for these in ourselves.
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