Magical Assassin Build

[giantitpman]

I have a character concept of an assassin (the concept, not necessarily the rogue subclass) whose main damage source is of the nova magical variety. Spells will be utilized for mobility, sneaky-sneaky, get-out-of-dodge, and confusion/illusion. Mechanically, what is an optimal way to build this? I am not opposed to 3 levels of rogue to grab the assassinate feature, since it does indeed work on spell attacks (though I do realize that sneak attack wouldn't be added to those).

Many much thanks in advance.

[Damon_Tor]

Subtle spell is important, and a spell without an obvious source.

Fireball might actually be your best bet for a killing spell. I think most people picture the character hurling a ball of fire, but in the description it's clear the effect of the spell appears at it's point of origin. If you want to avoid collateral damage you could use the evocation feature to exclude bystanders, but I'll note that having several people die at once helps obscure which was the actual target, thus obscuring your motive and making it harder to trace you.

[clash]

I would pick up at least 2 levels of paladin for smiting. It can give a very assasin like feeling. Then maybe warlock. Get devil's sight, and disguise self at will plus pact of blade to get into places unarmed then summon your own weapon. Actually with warlock smite you don't even need the paladin levels. Maybe straight warlock or mix in some whispers bard for non spell slot smiting

[Lunali]

Subtle spell is important, and a spell without an obvious source.

Fireball might actually be your best bet for a killing spell. I think most people picture the character hurling a ball of fire, but in the description it's clear the effect of the spell appears at it's point of origin. If you want to avoid collateral damage you could use the evocation feature to exclude bystanders, but I'll note that having several people die at once helps obscure which was the actual target, thus obscuring your motive and making it harder to trace you.

From the description it's clear the visible effect starts at the caster. "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame. "

[Corran]

I have a character concept of an assassin (the concept, not necessarily the rogue subclass) whose main damage source is of the nova magical variety. Spells will be utilized for mobility, sneaky-sneaky, get-out-of-dodge, and confusion/illusion. Mechanically, what is an optimal way to build this? I am not opposed to 3 levels of rogue to grab the assassinate feature, since it does indeed work on spell attacks (though I do realize that sneak attack wouldn't be added to those).

Many much thanks in advance.

Hmmm.... I think a good way to accomplish that is with a rogue (assassin) 3/ warlock (hexblade) 17 multiclass. You'll count on thirsting blade (pact of the blade), eldritch smite and on branding smite (later on on banishing smite) to combine with assassinate for good first round nova (ideally with a longbow -you'll grab of course the improved pact weapon invocation, though you will be able to use it in melee too if needed with a finesse weapon -you need just one attack to hit, so you don't have to worry too much about twf; remember, with hex warrior and blade pact you can have two weapons with which you'll attack using charisma).

You can bring the rogue levels online after you get branding smite and thirsting blade, or you could wait a bit longer if you really wanted to and bring them online after you grab banishing smite (though cunning action would be useful earlier for sure, and you can still use assassinate with branding smite).

Use your spells and invocations for tons of utility that would be useful for an assassin/impersonator/infiltrator/etc. For example, alter self is very useful. Alternatively, you could go with mask of many faces, assuming you can feat the actor feat somehow in your build. Spells like spider climb, invisibility and fly would also be very useful, to get you to the place you want to be in order to kill someone. The ghostly gaze invocation helps a lot too, especially if you can combine it with teleports (not sure if it can work with far step, but if it can, that would be ideal for getting in and out of somewhere very quickly and relatively efficiently given the urgency.

Remember that to assassinate, aside for having the element of surprise and also hitting with your attacks, you also need to win initiative. That makes alert a very useful feat for assassins. Though I would prioritize lucky, cause you really need to win all of stealth/deception, initiative and hit with an attack. Lucky covers better all these bases than alert imo. It would be the first or second (if I really wanted actor; now that I think of it, I don't think that warlocks get alter self, which is a shame; consider changeling for race).

Devil's sight + darkness + cunning action (hide) + BB is a great combo to have when things go wrong when you are scouting or trying to infiltrate a place on your own. If you want to fight it out that is and not just dimension door away.
Pact of the blade allows you to summon a weapon out of nowehere (that could be your longbow), and shadow blade allows you a melee summonable weapon (though I don't think it works with charisma). These are good tricks for ''carrying'' weapons where you shouldn't, and if you are lucky, this might be enough to set up some assasinations against targets that are warry of it.

[Bobthewizard]

My favorite assassin is a pact of the chain fiend warlock. Cast infernal calling and have the imp and the barbed devil kill your target in a public place with lots of witnesses while you are drinking beer and telling stories in a bar on the other side of town.

[Damon_Tor]

From the description it's clear the visible effect starts at the caster. "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame. "

Hrm, I must have misremembered.

Hrm. Shatter works well enough. Vampiric Touch delivered through a familiar would be hard to trace as well, though it would lack the motive-obscuring benefit of an AoE attack.

When you get Dominate Person you could just make someone write a suicide note and jump off a bridge.

[Nagog]

I would definitely suggest a few levels of Warlock for this. 2, maybe 3. Mask of Many Faces is great, and oftentimes better than stealth, and even better for ex-filtration. Better yet, here's an interesting and difficult to pin down way to kill somebody: Kidnap them, disguise yourself as them, and then kill somebody else, making sure to be seen in your disguise, but not caught. Afterwards, release your captive/scapegoat in an area they will be found by authorities, and plant sufficient evidence for them to be executed. This is particularly useful if you have 2 targets in one area. The Actor feat is particularly useful in combination with this build. On top of that, Pact of the blade means you'll be unarmed for infiltration and exfiltration. Also, the Assassination auto-crit combined with Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear and Agonizing Blast means you can (at 6th level when this full build comes online at level 6) 4d10 +Cha x2 from 600 feet away. If you nab a few levels of Sorcerer on top of that, Distant Spell increases that range to 1200 feet, and with that kind of distance, you can stealth pretty well and nearly guarantee the surprise round necessary to activate your auto-crit.

[Damon_Tor]

I would definitely suggest a few levels of Warlock for this. 2, maybe 3. Mask of Many Faces is great, and oftentimes better than stealth, and even better for ex-filtration. Better yet, here's an interesting and difficult to pin down way to kill somebody: Kidnap them, disguise yourself as them, and then kill somebody else, making sure to be seen in your disguise, but not caught. Afterwards, release your captive/scapegoat in an area they will be found by authorities, and plant sufficient evidence for them to be executed. This is particularly useful if you have 2 targets in one area. The Actor feat is particularly useful in combination with this build.

In a low magic setting where judges and juries had no reason to believe magic might have anything to do with it, sure. But in a setting where magic is a known possibility, his story of being kidnapped and impersonated is plausible, and worse, it would hold up to any divination which might attempt to determine the truth. And directly putting yourself into combat is a needless risk, both to kidnap the primary target and to kill the secondary target. At higher levels you could at least use simulacra to simmilar effect without putting yourself in danger.

[Nagog]

In a low magic setting where judges and juries had no reason to believe magic might have anything to do with it, sure. But in a setting where magic is a known possibility, his story of being kidnapped and impersonated is plausible, and worse, it would hold up to any divination which might attempt to determine the truth. And directly putting yourself into combat is a needless risk, both to kidnap the primary target and to kill the secondary target. At higher levels you could at least use simulacra to simmilar effect without putting yourself in danger.

What divination spell would work post-tense? Wouldn't a Simulacrum have the same weakness? By the time you're that high level, Power Word Kill would be the best option, and if they've got more than 100 HP then Wish them out of existence. However, if there's a retroactive Divination spell even those would be detectable. With powerful enough Retroactive Divination Magic, nothing will ever remain a secret.
However there are lower level spells that protect against Divination magic, so there's that. I'm sure such a spell would not be difficult to get a scroll for.

[JackPhoenix]

What divination spell would work post-tense? Wouldn't a Simulacrum have the same weakness? By the time you're that high level, Power Word Kill would be the best option, and if they've got more than 100 HP then Wish them out of existence. However, if there's a retroactive Divination spell even those would be detectable. With powerful enough Retroactive Divination Magic, nothing will ever remain a secret.
However there are lower level spells that protect against Divination magic, so there's that. I'm sure such a spell would not be difficult to get a scroll for.

Zone of Truth.

*casts ZoT, confirms the suspect failed save*
"Did you [commit a crime you're accused of]?"
"No, someone kidnapped and left me in a dark basement, then released me just before you arrested me!"
"Well, there you have it, he didn't do it".

[Nagog]

Zone of Truth.

*casts ZoT, confirms the suspect failed save*
"Did you [commit a crime you're accused of]?"
"No, someone kidnapped and left me in a dark basement, then released me just before you arrested me!"
"Well, there you have it, he didn't do it".

Except how could you confirm they failed the save? It's not so simple as the "Only Truth, Only Lies" puzzle, humans (and other sentient creatures)tell mixtures of truth and falsehoods all the time. Or with the spell Modify Memory, they could be telling the truth saying they don't remember the incident. The only thing they'd be able to find is they have no memory, whether that was intentional or not on the part of the accused is unclear, and only mundane evidence would be reliable.

Man, I play a supervillian far better than I do the hero. I should get that looked at... Or not. >:)

[Damon_Tor]

Except how could you confirm they failed the save?

It's built into the spell.

Or with the spell Modify Memory, they could be telling the truth saying they don't remember the incident. The only thing they'd be able to find is they have no memory, whether that was intentional or not on the part of the accused is unclear, and only mundane evidence would be reliable.

Plausibility decreases as the level of magic rises. Modify memory is a 5th level spell, which means the number of spellcasters capable of casting it is quite small. Not only that, but consider what you would be suggesting as a prosecutor: you would be accusing this man of murdering someone publically with no attempt to disguise it, then going off and casting a 5th level spell on himself in order to foil a Zone of Truth. If he could cast a 5th level spell, why would he choose to kill someone personally? It doesn't make any sense, and the only way you could expect an execution was if the judge was in on the scheme.

But by contrast, disguise self is a 1st level spell. Anyone can do it right out of Wizard school.

Not to mention, Modify Memory is a detectable spell, and it's effects can be cured.

[giantitpman]

Thanks for the ideas! I love them all. Warlock definitely feels like a great fit for this, with the invocations and flexibility that the class offers. Now the question is whether pure Warlock will get me the feel I am looking for, or if mixing in some combination of rogue/bard/sorcerer/paladin will be necessary. Thanks again

[Nagog]

It's built into the spell.

Plausibility decreases as the level of magic rises. Modify memory is a 5th level spell, which means the number of spellcasters capable of casting it is quite small. Not only that, but consider what you would be suggesting as a prosecutor: you would be accusing this man of murdering someone publically with no attempt to disguise it, then going off and casting a 5th level spell on himself in order to foil a Zone of Truth. If he could cast a 5th level spell, why would he choose to kill someone personally? It doesn't make any sense, and the only way you could expect an execution was if the judge was in on the scheme.

But by contrast, disguise self is a 1st level spell. Anyone can do it right out of Wizard school.

Not to mention, Modify Memory is a detectable spell, and it's effects can be cured.

How is it detectable? It never says it's detectable. Also, implant the memory of doing the action, and they'll be telling what they believe to be the truth, that they did the deed. Case closed. Unless you want to spend a 3rd level spell for Remove Curse, totaling 5 levels worth of spells, more than half of which were "Just in case" they were under some kind of magical effect.

[Damon_Tor]

How is it detectable? It never says it's detectable. Also, implant the memory of doing the action, and they'll be telling what they believe to be the truth, that they did the deed. Case closed. Unless you want to spend a 3rd level spell for Remove Curse, totaling 5 levels worth of spells, more than half of which were "Just in case" they were under some kind of magical effect.

Detect magic is a first level spell, usable as a ritual. Any police investigation into a high profile victim or suspect will naturally involve the use of the spell to determine if there's magic at work.

And I'll note you're here using 5th level spells, but objecting to your opposition employing 3rd level spells.

[Nagog]

Detect magic is a first level spell, usable as a ritual. Any police investigation into a high profile victim or suspect will naturally involve the use of the spell to determine if there's magic at work.

And I'll note you're here using 5th level spells, but objecting to your opposition employing 3rd level spells.

Detect Magic does not detect curses people are under. Modify Memory has no listed duration, so it's undetectable. If it were detectable, you'd also be able to see any sort of healing magic they've ever been subjected to, any sort of damaging spell they've been hit with, and everything else.
As for spell level, this is a PC. PCs are always much more powerful than the common folk around them, and have access to a lot more resources. They're the protagonist of the story, so while things are still challenging, they aren't typically up against NPCs with PC levels of power on a daily basis, much less having a whole slew of them just to run a courthouse. If the common people were that powerful, why would anybody get into the adventuring business? Adventuring guilds would end up being the modern equivalent of a temp agency: Work, yes, but work nobody else really care to do and work that doesn't typically pay very well. So yes, PCs are typically MUCH more powerful than 99% of people. That's why they're the protagonists.

(Ya know this back and forth feels reminiscent to me of the scene in Megamind with MetroMan and Megamind going back and forth "Ah yes, but I purchased Modify Memory with the extended warranty!" "Warranty is invalidated if you don't protect it from divination magic!" XD)

[Damon_Tor]

Detect Magic does not detect curses people are under. Modify Memory has no listed duration, so it's undetectable. If it were detectable, you'd also be able to see any sort of healing magic they've ever been subjected to, any sort of damaging spell they've been hit with, and everything else.

Nothing about Detect Magic requires a duration be in effect.

As for spell level, this is a PC. PCs are always much more powerful than the common folk around them, and have access to a lot more resources.

It's not about "the common folk", it's about the challenge a DM is supposed to bring to bear against the players. A party of PCs is supposed be be up against an equivalent threat. A 1/4 CR spellcaster will have the spell slots and selection of a first level PC. A 1 CR spellcaster will have the slots and selection of a fourth level PC.

If a PC is playing a magic assassin, expect the DM to challenge him with an investigator of similar spellcasting ability. But you're objecting to an NPC having even half that. It's not a good look.

[JackPhoenix]

Detect Magic does not detect curses people are under. Modify Memory has no listed duration, so it's undetectable. If it were detectable, you'd also be able to see any sort of healing magic they've ever been subjected to, any sort of damaging spell they've been hit with, and everything else.
As for spell level, this is a PC. PCs are always much more powerful than the common folk around them, and have access to a lot more resources. They're the protagonist of the story, so while things are still challenging, they aren't typically up against NPCs with PC levels of power on a daily basis, much less having a whole slew of them just to run a courthouse. If the common people were that powerful, why would anybody get into the adventuring business? Adventuring guilds would end up being the modern equivalent of a temp agency: Work, yes, but work nobody else really care to do and work that doesn't typically pay very well. So yes, PCs are typically MUCH more powerful than 99% of people. That's why they're the protagonists.

Unless the target of your assassination is absolute nobody (in which case I don't know why you bother with some convulted plot), you can bet the case will be investigated thoroughly. Priest NPC has access to 3rd level spells (at CR2), and everything you may need (Speak with Dead, Remove Curse, Dispel Magic, Zone of Truth, Detect Magic) for proper criminal investigation is on cleric list. Having a priest of law/justice deity on hand for court (assuming the cleric isn't the judge in the first place) is just common sense in any decent-sized town.

And Modify Memory itself is far from infallible: the target comes with details, so his memory of crime may be contradictory to those of any witnesses, and if the remembered act is against the target's nature (which murdering someone for no reason usually is), the memory will be dismissed.

[Damon_Tor]

Unless the target of your assassination is absolute nobody (in which case I don't know why you bother with some convulted plot), you can bet the case will be investigated thoroughly.

Right. Someone hired a level 9+ spellcaster, you can bet this wasn't some potter's wife looking to collect insurance money on her husband or something, the target is a guy who is either powerful (in which case many of these tricks aren't likely to work on him to begin with) or wealthy (in which case he likely has enough pull with the authorities to get a trial that is, at minimum, fair) or both.

I don't take issue with using Disguise Self. On the contrary, it's a very important tool. The biggest problem here is the reliance on the legal system making your kill for you. It relies on way to much going exactly right, on way too many people being drooling morons.

[Warlush]

My favorite assassin is a pact of the chain fiend warlock. Cast infernal calling and have the imp and the barbed devil kill your target in a public place with lots of witnesses while you are drinking beer and telling stories in a bar on the other side of town.

I love this and I can't agree more! They could also rob a bank, defile a temple, mock the king, or set fire to any number of buildings. Just wait until you get your imp a wand of fireballs.

[Talionis]

5 Assassin/ Pact of Blade Warlock 5/ 10 Whisper Bard. Get a Crossbow as Pact Weapon. Take the Smite Invocation. You can then opening round auto critical. Blow Inspiration and a spell slot in Smite into an attack and add Sneak Attack to it. With Magical Secrets you can pick up Flame Arrow or another buff to your weapon damage. And you have your Hex.

You have Rogue and Bard for skills. Can use Charisma to Attack this setting you up to have the Charisma for social intrigue. You have the Warlock Disguise Self Invocation and the Whisper Bard disguises. You can hide your Crossbow as your Pact Weapon. The weapon is also magical.