The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 51
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default How to build a tempest cleric

    I' ll play a tempest cleric and I could use some help for the mechanical part of the pc.
    All manuals are legal.

    We begin at lv 2 but any advice for higher levels is more than welcome.

    So far I came up with this::
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Evony Warforged

    Stats: regular 27 point buy sistem
    Str: 13
    Dex: 10
    Con: 15+1+1
    Int: 10
    Wis: 15+1
    Cha: 8


    Feats:
    Resilient (Con)
    War Caster


    I do not know any good spell beside for the 1st lv slots: healing word, bless, guiding bolt. I could use some help here as well.


    Edit:
    I do not know if it changes something but the DM is ok with this:
    I get as cantrip Sacred "Lightning", a copy of sacred flame with the damage type on theme;
    I can decide to activate destructive wrath after the attack roll or ST;
    I can use the holy symbol shield to cast spells with somatic component (even those that do not require material components)

    And this is the dealbreaker: bonus feat to everyone at lv 1, now that is good any advice or I should just grab resilient (Con) then at lv 4 Warcaster and from that point max out stats?

    I after seeing the other players PCs ideas I changed my mind and swap to envoy warforged instead.
    Last edited by Trandir; 2019-09-27 at 02:29 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    As the cleric, LV 1 spells aren't important. However, take shocking grasp and sacred flame

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    I' ll play a tempest cleric and I could use some help for the mechanical part of the pc.
    All manuals are legal.

    We begin at lv 2 but any advice for higher levels is more than welcome.

    So far I came up with this::
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Hill dwarf
    Seems good and I like dwarves

    Stats: regular 27 point buy sistem
    Str: 14
    Dex: 10
    Con: 14+2
    Int: 10
    Wis: 15+1
    Cha: 8

    Strong, resilient, wise and can't hold a conversation, perfect dwarf/melee cleric.


    I do not know any good spell beside for the 1st lv slots: cure wounds, spiritual weapon and necrotic touch. I could use some help here as well.
    I always prepare Bless. And I always prepare Healing Word since it can be used as a bonus action to get someone up during combat. Spiritual Weapon won't come until you are 3rd level, as it is a second level spell.

    Also, unless someone else in your party has it, take the guidance cantrip.

    Adding 1d4 to another party member's, or your, attempt at an ability check (stealth, pick locks, grapple, climb, what have you) can make a big difference. The suggestion to take shocking grasp and sacred flame are good ones, but I can't find Shocking Grasp cantrip on the Cleric list I have handy. (Will check PHB later)

    Yorrin has a guide to clerics: here is a link
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-17 at 04:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I always prepare Bless. And I always prepare Healing Word since it can be used as a bonus action to get someone up during combat. Spiritual Weapon won't come until you are 3rd level, as it is a second level spell.

    Also, unless someone else in your party has it, take the guidance cantrip.

    Adding 1d4 to another party member's, or your, attempt at an ability check (stealth, pick locks, grapple, climb, what have you) can make a big difference. The suggestion to take shocking grasp and sacred flame are good ones, but I can't find Shocking Grasp cantrip on the Cleric list I have handy. (Will check PHB later)

    Yorrin has a guide to clerics: here is a link
    Guidance is a very nice cantrip for OoC utility

    My bad spiritual weapon will have to wait a couple of sessions before coming online

    Bless is indeed amazing +1d4 to ST and Attack rolls to 3 party members.

    Shocking grasp is a Sor/Wiz cantrip unfortunately and sacred flame is basically a cleric's crossbow, so it will probably be my go to ranged option most of the time.

    Thanks for the link

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Don't forget that you get Thunderwave.
    If you are trying to abuse the game; Don't. And you're probably wrong anyway.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Clerics are easy. Tempest Clerics are awesome.

    My advice-

    1. Highest AC possible so full Plate + Shield = 20AC
    2. Concentration is IMPORTANT. You NEED Warcaster or Res(Con) for sure and it wouldn't hurt to take both.
    3. You want 20 Wis ASAP but get at least one of the above feats first.
    4. Attacking with a weapon is rarely the best option.
    5. Don't feel obligated to be "the healer" -I've played 3 different Tempests and none of them prioritized healing.
    6. Don't be afraid to spam the Dodge action


    The most simple and also best optimized Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric-

    14 Str, 10 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha

    level 4 take either Warcaster or + 2 Wis
    level 8 take whichever you did NOT take at level 4
    level 12 take +2 Wis to max it out.
    level 16 take either Res(Con) or Dwarf Resilience
    level 19 take whichever you did not take at level 16

    So by level 20 you're sitting at 18 Con and 20 Wis, would almost never lose concentration, and you'd be able to heal 1d8+4 every time you take the Dodge Action. This is really simple and SO effective.



    Alternatively, if there was a fancier feat you had your eyes on like Heavy Armor Master, Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, Sentinel, or Lucky you could start with 17 Con and 8 Int, and take Res(Con) early in place of Warcaster.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Vinland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Very good advice in this thread already so I'll just add enjoy kickin' butt.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    So I think you have the basic tempest build down from the above advice.

    I'd just focus on what you plan to do on level 3+.

    For tempest this is usually the question of what you want to do and how long you expect the game to go. Assuming you're heading to the typical level 14ish ending there's a couple of common paths to take (and by no means all of your options).

    Stay pure cleric. Simple and effective. Common builds are to take the Magic Initiate or similar "get a cantrip" for Booming Blade and use your level 6 knockback ability to hit someone and leave them away from you, out of combat (forcing them to have to move and take extra damage or not move). If you want to go full-bore into this strategy, at level 8 pickup Polearm Master (Forcing them to be knocked out of range of the polearm on a Booming Blade hit) and potentially have to take both the BB damage and a reaction attack from the polearm. You can even go further nuts and take instead of Magic Initiate so you can use BB at 10ft. It may actually make more sense to go PAM first and Spell Sniper second...

    Your bread and butter use for Channel Divinity will be Shatter, which you'll get at level 3. It's like a mini-nuke, dealing 24 dmg in a 10ft rad when you get it and increasing another 8 dmg every 2 levels when upcast, at caster level 11 reaching 56 dmg. More important is that shatter is a spell that specifically also damages objects... and 56dmg to say... a castle wall... will cause quite the show!

    Switch to anything that gets Lightning Bolt - Sorcerer is the obvious choice here but Circle of the Land (Mountain) is also an option, as well as Wizard or UA Lurker of the Deep. Get to level 5 in that class for Lightning Bolt (and other nice spells) and then either onward in that class for whatever you think is cool or back to Cleric for the second channel divinity at 6 (Total level 11) so you can ZAP PEOPLE TWICE. There's little more terrifying than a level 11 Tempest Cleric / Sorcerer blasting a line for damage with no roll (maybe more if you go Draconic).

    Those are just two easy directions to go, plenty of flexibility within each to customize it as you see fit.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Laserlight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Virginia Beach VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    A Tempest is good at wading into melee and casting AoE spells. It doesn't have much in the way of single target damage spells.

    For cantrips, I'd go Guidance, Sacred Flame for a ranged attack, and Word of Radiance for when you're in the thick of things.
    Use a weapon and shield, and the best AC you can manage. It doesn't really matter what weapon you pick, that's not where your damage comes from.
    It is extremely common to hear "Get Booming Blade!" but it won't help as much as people seem to think (until L5, it only does damage if the target moves and provokes OA, from L5 and on you're normally going to be casting spells, not trying to bop something with a hammer).
    Get Warcaster at the first possible opportunity. Losing concentration sucks. At low levels, IIRC warcaster is better for you than Resilient CON.
    Once you've got Warcaster, increase your WIS. You do not need to improve your melee attack stat.
    If you have an unbearable compulsion to multiclass, a level or two of Storm Sorc has nice synergy, but you don't need it; straight Tempest is good.
    Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians will be your friends.
    You're not a healing cleric. Keep a Healing Word handy in case things get really desperate--say, if the wizard is at 0hp, you're falling 1000 feet, and it's time for a Featherfall--but you do a lot better to kill enemies instead of healing friends.
    Junior, half orc paladin of the Order of St Dale the Intimidator: "Ah cain't abide no murderin' scoundrel."

    Tactical Precepts: 1) Cause chaos, then exploit it; 2) No plan survives contact with...(sigh)...my subordinates.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    I'm not going to try to pick all of your spells but I'll add in some key ones in addition to the very good Tempest spells you get. I'm sure you've already heard of the Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians combo which leaves your action free to do whatever you want from weapon attack, blasting spells, healing spells, buffing/debuffing, and just taking the Dodge action.

    Cantrips-

    Guidance is possibly the best cantrip in the game
    Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead because you need at least 1 damage cantrip
    -Toll the Dead(Wis save) is a bit more damaging than Sacred Flame(Dex save) but Sacred Flame ignores cover. They're a tossup or you could take both.
    Spare the Dying is nice to have in a pinch for the first few levels, but becomes basically useless later on.


    1st level

    Bless. You'll use this for your entire career. Easily one of the best uses of your concentration
    Healing Word. Bonus Action healing that I personally only ever use when a party member drops
    Command is simple and always useful


    2nd level

    Spiritual Weapon is a great use of your bonus action and is usually better than hitting with a weapon but you COULD do both. Actually upcasts well IMO
    Prayer of Healing is superior to Cure Wounds


    3rd level

    Spirit Guardians will always compete with Bless for your concentration but is so good especially when fighting numerous enemies. Upcasts well too
    Mass Healing Word is a must have IMO


    4th level

    Banishment

    oops I'm out of time have to go lol

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    As far as Booming Blade, it's a good pick for Tempests, but you could get it from Magic Initiative and it's obviously superior than simply attacking, but I found I only ever used it with Reaction attacks via Warcaster. Even with Booming Blade, hitting with a weapon on your turn will rarely be the best option after level 5 or so. Of course when you DO need to hit something with your weapon, Booming Blade + Divine Strike will ensure you hit really hard with your one attack.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Get Warcaster at the first possible opportunity. Losing concentration sucks. At low levels, IIRC warcaster is better for you than Resilient CON.
    Once you've got Warcaster, increase your WIS. You do not need to improve your melee attack stat.
    Well, if we're getting into the nitty gritty of optimization...

    All we really need from Warcaster is the advantage.

    Being a Dwarf we can start with a 17 Con and 16 Wis. Level 4 we can take Resilient (Con) and increase our Con to 18.

    This gives us +1hp/level and at +4 to Con saves at 5th level vs the advantage from Warcaster. This is to all Con saves too, not just concentration.

    Being a Dwarf we don't need high strength for the armour. We also don't need Intelligence or Charisma and Dex is a nice to have but also doesn't need to be high. So we aren't hurting from boosting Con from 16 to 17.
    If you are trying to abuse the game; Don't. And you're probably wrong anyway.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Petrocorus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    In what setting do you play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    We begin at lv 2 but any advice for higher levels is more than welcome.
    .....
    I do not know any good spell beside for the 1st lv slots: healing word, bless and Inflict wounds. I could use some help here as well.

    Is it just me or clerics don't get many lightning or thunder damaging spells?
    That's the point of the Tempest domain. You add blasting and some BFC to the cleric list that lack it.

    You should always have Healing Word and Bless prepared. Add Detect Magic if there is no wizard. And Guiding Bolt because you can max it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldlizard View Post
    As the cleric, LV 1 spells aren't important. However, take shocking grasp and sacred flame
    Shocking Grasp is not on the Cleric spell list.
    Indeed, the level 6 feature of the Tempest cleric doesn't synergize with any cleric cantrip nor with the Divine Strike.
    It does synergize with Wrath or the Storm

    If he wants Shocking Grasp, or Lightning Lure, he'll need to burn a feat on this and it will be keyed on Intelligence.

    As cantrips, i'd avise Guidance, Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead, and Word of Radiance (good for the mooks). Maybe Light if there are a lot of people without darkvision in the party.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2019-09-17 at 07:13 PM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - 3.5 Reference Index

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Aug 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    As far as Booming Blade, it's a good pick for Tempests, but you could get it from Magic Initiative and it's obviously superior than simply attacking, but I found I only ever used it with Reaction attacks via Warcaster. Even with Booming Blade, hitting with a weapon on your turn will rarely be the best option after level 5 or so. Of course when you DO need to hit something with your weapon, Booming Blade + Divine Strike will ensure you hit really hard with your one attack.
    Just to be clear, I rec the Booming Blade potential path as one option simply because this is a Tempest Cleric. Every cleric can do the "Spirit Guardians + Spirit Weapon" schtick. Those that get heavy armor, including tempest, do it slightly better (1 AC better, generally speaking), but it's not a "Tempest" build... and there's nothing wrong with doing it and using the tempest part for flavor and for upcasts of shatter.

    So, I want to look at things specifically a Tempest can do better than any other Domain (and maybe better than any other class) - and one of those things is certainly focusing on the Knockback side at level 6, potentially locking down 1 enemy with BB or even just pushing them through hazards. At low levels a temptest is basically like every other domain, plus a once per rest shatter-nuke - but later on I feel like its a pretty flexible non-healer cleric.

    There's certainly more blasty-shinannigans if you move to Sorcerer or even weird Mountain Druids (for some weird pure-wis quarterstaff and CC spells?). Not sure Wizard would add anything, never really thought about it, but its certainly viable too.

    That all said, lets not forget that always having Fog Cloud ready is supremely handy in an incredibly wide amount situations.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    As far as Booming Blade, it's a good pick for Tempests, but you could get it from Magic Initiative and it's obviously superior than simply attacking, but I found I only ever used it with Reaction attacks via Warcaster. Even with Booming Blade, hitting with a weapon on your turn will rarely be the best option after level 5 or so. Of course when you DO need to hit something with your weapon, Booming Blade + Divine Strike will ensure you hit really hard with your one attack.
    That is going to depend on gameplay style, to a degree. If you play such that the Long Rest-recharging classes can always burn 1-2 moderately powerful spells per encounter, then Spirit Guardians+Spritual Weapon+dodge action is almost always better. If one plays with a more SR-dominant campaign, or massively-multiple encounter dungeon crawling, having good at-will backup becomes more important.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Just be aware, if you go for booming blade, that the level 6 tempest cleric knock back is caused by lightning damage only. Booming blade is thunder damage.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    I' ll play a tempest cleric and I could use some help for the mechanical part of the pc.
    All manuals are legal.

    We begin at lv 2 but any advice for higher levels is more than welcome.

    So far I came up with this::
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Hill dwarf
    Seems good and I like dwarves

    Stats: regular 27 point buy sistem
    Str: 14
    Dex: 10
    Con: 14+2
    Int: 10
    Wis: 15+1
    Cha: 8

    Strong, resilient, wise and can't hold a conversation, perfect dwarf/melee cleric.


    I do not know any good spell beside for the 1st lv slots: healing word, bless and Inflict wounds. I could use some help here as well.

    Is it just me or clerics don't get many lightning or thunder damaging spells?
    This is a general cleric advice but don't worry about doing damage every round, one of the best things a Cleric can do is be a target.

    Using the Help Action (giving an ally advantage) is an amazing way to help kill things faster, make your allies love you, and really importantly cause creatures to target you. It also doesn't fail.

    Becoming the target and using the help action is one of the best things a Tempest Cleric can do. Even without expending a lot of spell slots.

    * Wrath of Thunders: Reaction to being hit by an attack. With the help action and being annoying you will get to use this. Also, spice up your help action by being dirty (I like to say I'm spitting at the target).
    * Healing: You won't have to spread out any out of combat healing and you can just target yourself.
    * Channel Divinity works on Wrath of Thunders.
    * Thunderbolt Strike works with Wrath of Thunders.
    * Did I mention your allies will love you?
    * Once you get second level spells you should pick up Spiritual Weapon allows you to attack with your bonus action and still use the help action for your allies. This allows you to be even more of a target!
    * Your damage at low levels is going to be rather low no matter what you choose for cantrips but are a good way to mix up damage types (also, people sleep on Sacred Flame but gaining cover is so dang easy in 5e... Creatures can get that +2 AC/Dex Saves by standing behind an ally/enemy).

    As for higher level slots... Honestly my best advice is to play the game and pick different things and just see how it works out. One of the best things about Clerics is that you don't have spell known so experimentation with different spell combinations is fun!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    The Str associated with the heavy armor is used to determine if I'd get slowed if I do not have enough strength. But a dwarf tempest cleric can wear everything and still walk at 25 feet even whitout the str, right?

    If I get a "shield divine focus" I could cast spells with materials and somantic components even whitout the warcaster feat? By RAW I'd say yes but I'm asking to be sure

    As for the cantrips I will take:
    Thaumaturgy, not quite prestidigitation but still good;
    Sacred Flame, good ranged option and ignore all covers as long as you can see it (if you have x-ray vision you can hit anything?);
    Guidance, you get a d4 and you get a d4 everyone gets a d4.


    First level spells can be changed so I will figure out what spells to prepare while playing.

    Thanks for all the help so far
    Last edited by Trandir; 2019-09-18 at 07:31 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Get Warcaster at the first possible opportunity. Losing concentration sucks. At low levels, IIRC warcaster is better for you than Resilient CON.
    You are correct.

    Once you've got Warcaster, increase your WIS. You do not need to improve your melee attack stat.
    The critical attack stat IMO is wisdom, for using guiding bolt. :) YMMV. I agree with your point on Storm Sorcerer, but this domain stands up fine as single class.
    You're not a healing cleric. Keep a Healing Word handy in case things get really desperate--say, if the wizard is at 0hp, you're falling 1000 feet, and it's time for a Featherfall--but you do a lot better to kill enemies instead of healing friends.
    Yes; have the healing available for when needed, but this isn't a heal bot build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlockpwns View Post
    That all said, lets not forget that always having Fog Cloud ready is supremely handy in an incredibly wide amount situations.
    I learned to love fog cloud while playing a Tempest domain cleric. I like it so much that my Rangers always take it.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-09-18 at 07:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    NE Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    If I get a "shield divine focus" I could cast spells with materials and somantic components even whitout the warcaster feat? By RAW I'd say yes but I'm asking to be sure
    Yes, but doesnít work if the spell is somatic and not material. I canít quote the relevant passages right now, but if Iím wrong, weíll find out soon enough. LOL
    Emongnome

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Petrocorus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    The Str associated with the heavy armor is used to determine if I'd get slowed if I do not have enough strength. But a dwarf tempest cleric can wear everything and still walk at 25 feet even whitout the str, right?
    Right.
    One of the reasons dwarves fir so well the cleric.

    If I get a "shield divine focus" I could cast spells with materials and somantic components even whitout the warcaster feat? By RAW I'd say yes but I'm asking to be sure
    It was confirm in a Sage Advice. For good measure, you should also get a holy symbol on your weapon.

    Though, as Emongnome777 has said, by RAW it only work for spells that do have a material component, and not those with somatic but without material component. Many DM will ignore this i believe.
    As a matter of fact, i can't manage to find the line in the PHB neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    For the Concentration check, true.
    But in ToA, There can be a lot of other Con saves to be made. So i would think twice before choosing Warcaster over Res (Con).
    The other benefit of Warcaster will not be very useful to a cleric.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2019-09-18 at 09:04 AM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - 3.5 Reference Index

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    There's suggestion of taking Shocking Grasp or Booming Blade which are not on the cleric list with magic initiate but before taking that feat ask your DM since you are a Tempest cleric if you can take them as a cleric even if they are not on the list, he may just say yes.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Though, as Emongnome777 has said, by RAW it only work for spells that do have a material component, and not those with somatic but without material component. Many DM will ignore this i believe.
    As a matter of fact, i can't manage to find the line in the PHB neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emongnome777 View Post
    Yes, but doesnít work if the spell is somatic and not material. I canít quote the relevant passages right now, but if Iím wrong, weíll find out soon enough. LOL
    I asked my DM and he sayed that I can use a shield holy symbol to cast spells with semantic components and to use it as a shueld but I can't use that hand to do anything else.
    This means that warcaser loses the no semantic component part but the advantage on concentration is still good

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    For the Concentration check, true.
    But in ToA, There can be a lot of other Con saves to be made. So i would think twice before choosing Warcaster over Res (Con).
    The other benefit of Warcaster will not be very useful to a cleric.
    So very true. I always prefer Res Con over Warcaster, unless the build really needs the other two benefits of Warcaster for some reason. Particularly because Warcaster's Concentration saves only benefit where the save is due to taking damage. In some campaigns, that may be all you ever see. But in other campaigns, the DM may like throwing spells like Sleet Storm at your party (or adjudicate environmental hazards as requiring Concentration checks) and watch all the party's Warcasters turn into a fail army. The Res Con folks, however, will be just fine.
    Last edited by Guy Lombard-O; 2019-09-18 at 10:32 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Petrocorus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    I asked my DM and he sayed that I can use a shield holy symbol to cast spells with semantic components and to use it as a shueld but I can't use that hand to do anything else.
    This means that warcaser loses the no semantic component part but the advantage on concentration is still good
    What we said was about using your focus for somatic component according to the focus rules.
    Warcaster overrules this, since it allows you to do it with weapons or shields.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - 3.5 Reference Index

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    -Toll the Dead(Wis save) is a bit more damaging than Sacred Flame(Dex save) but Sacred Flame ignores cover.
    Sacred Flame ignoring cover isn't actually a strong point of it, but rather a balance to it being a Dex save as cover applies to dex saves. So the "ignore cover" part just makes the effective DC the same as if you cast Toll the Dead.'

    Now on the other hand the difference between dex & wisdom saves depends on what monsters you fight, so that's more up to what enemies you expect to fight. I think there is a collection of average saves per CR & stuff somewhere

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Petrocorus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Rara1212 View Post
    Sacred Flame ignoring cover isn't actually a strong point of it, but rather a balance to it being a Dex save as cover applies to dex saves. So the "ignore cover" part just makes the effective DC the same as if you cast Toll the Dead.'
    The spells specifies it, but it should not be necessary. A target does not benefit from cover for an effect that appear directly on itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by The PHB, page 196
    A target can benefit from cover only when an attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of the cover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rara1212 View Post
    Now on the other hand the difference between dex & wisdom saves depends on what monsters you fight, so that's more up to what enemies you expect to fight. I think there is a collection of average saves per CR & stuff somewhere
    I believe that as a rule of thumb, you'll meet more monsters with better Dex saves than Wis saves at lower levels and the contrary at higher levels, but this is just an average.

    It should also be taken in consideration that Toll the Dead do necrotic damage while Sacred Flame do Radiant damage.
    Radiant is a better damage type, notably in some campaign as like ToA.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2019-09-18 at 03:56 PM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - 3.5 Reference Index

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    So resilient (Con) is better than warcaster for maintaining concentration at higher levels, while the latter is better at low levels.

    The plan should be something like this:
    lv 4 warcaster
    lv 8 +2 Wis
    lv 12 +2 Wis
    lv 16 resilient (Con)
    lv 19 another feat to bring Con to an even number

    I do not know if this PC will ever see half of those feats but having a plan is always better.

    For the toll the dead vs sacred flame discussion I have the DM permission to get a "sacred lightning". It works just like the flame version but it deals lighning damage and this probably makes up for the difference of damage of toll the dead. Right?
    Last edited by Trandir; 2019-09-19 at 03:52 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    So resilient (Con) is better than warcaster for maintaining concentration at higher levels, while the latter is better at low levels.

    The plan should be something like this:
    lv 4 warcaster
    lv 8 +2 Wis
    lv 12 +2 Wis
    lv 16 resilient (Con)
    lv 19 another feat to bring Con to an even number

    I do not know if this PC will ever see half of those feats but having a plan is always better.

    For the toll the dead vs sacred flame discussion I have the DM permission to get a "sacred lightning". It works just like the flame version but it deals lighning damage and this probably makes up for the difference of damage of toll the dead. Right?

    This is a good plan and is pretty much what I said above. Yes Res(Con) is better at later levels.


    For your Level 19 feat I still Recommend Dwarf Resilience or Dwarven Fortitude whatever it's called

    You have the blood of dwarf heroes flowing through your veins. You gain the following benefits:


    Dwarven Fortitude
    *Increase your Constitution score by l, to a maximum of 20.
    *Whenever you take the Dodge action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: How to build a tempest cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthien View Post
    Just be aware, if you go for booming blade, that the level 6 tempest cleric knock back is caused by lightning damage only. Booming blade is thunder damage.
    Just noticed that everyone ignored this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •