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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MadBear's Avatar

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    Default Making the most out of a twf fighter

    I'll be playing a battle master fighter in an upcoming campaign. I know twf is weaker by comparison on the dpr side. Not really looking to debate/fix that.

    Instead I want ideas on how to be effective being a straight twf battle master fighter. What tricks, ideas, things, can they focus on to be maximally useful.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Per-hit damage bonuses, magic initiate for hex or hunters mark is an example.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    I'll be playing a battle master fighter in an upcoming campaign. I know twf is weaker by comparison on the dpr side. Not really looking to debate/fix that.

    Instead I want ideas on how to be effective being a straight twf battle master fighter. What tricks, ideas, things, can they focus on to be maximally useful.
    Twf is better the less you put in it.

    Don't invest in the fighting style if you plan on the game going to higher levels. ~5 damage once a round isn't worth it past low levels. Defense has a good impact the whole game.

    Compared to the Pam/ user you now have a free feat. Use this to fill any voids that the party has or round out your character. Inspiring leader, healer, observant, and resilient (Wis) are all strong picks at any point. Or simply max your attack stat first.

    Duel wielding feat may be worth it in the end if you find 2 non light weapons you want to use for a long time but the +1 AC is the better 1/3 of the feat.

    Twf is fine for you and you won't even see a huge difference until tier 3 and even then it's pretty small.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    I'll be playing a battle master fighter in an upcoming campaign. I know twf is weaker by comparison on the dpr side. Not really looking to debate/fix that.

    Instead I want ideas on how to be effective being a straight twf battle master fighter. What tricks, ideas, things, can they focus on to be maximally useful.
    Nothing particularly Battlemaster two-weapon specific comes to mind, except careful selection of manoeuvres. You probably want riposte, it's a free attack with your reaction when someone misses you.

    You need to avoid manoeuvres that suck up your bonus action to use if you want to use your off-hand strike.
    "If I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint threw a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..." - Dennis, aged 37 - Executive Officer of the Week, Anarcho-syndicalist commune, somewhere in Britain.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Want more power? Sell your soul.

    1 dip in Warlock gets you Hex (+1d6 damage per hit), taking Hexblade grants the Hexblade's Curse (+proficiency to damage per hit, crit on 19/20). Congrats, you've gained a 5% increase to your crit chance & added 1d6+2 at least to each weapon.

    You'll get 1 other spell known, and Wrathful Smite & Shield. I'd pick Armor of Agathys over Hellish Rebuke, as you get Shield as a reaction anyway & Armor damages them back. For your 2 cantrips, since you're TWFing Booming & Green-Flame aren't of interest to you. Eldritch Blast scales with character so the damage is never not relevant, so if you get a hand free you can always throw one out. Blade Ward is a buff, but not very significant. If you're not bothered, I'd pick whatever sounds fun to use OoC.

    If you want to delve even further, another level will give you 2 invocations & another spell (Hellish Rebuke?). The invocations don't necessarily add any further combat prowess, though Fiendish Vigor can give you 8 more HP. Devil's Sight, Thief of Five Fates, Gaze of Two Minds, etc are all decent utility.

    If you're THEN crazy enough to delve even further, Warlock 3 opens up a myriad of options. Blade + Improved Pact Weapon lets you cast any of your spells while TWFing, Chain gives you a familiar to do flanking shenanigans with for advantage, and Tome + Book of Ancient Secrets gives you rituals to play with which no doubt probably offer you more power. I'd go into it, but I don't know enough cheese on that front.

    Anyway, when those otherworldly guys are tempting you with "the ultimate power" etc etc, they're not always lying.
    Last edited by LentilNinja; 2019-09-18 at 06:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    If the players demand a mechanical explanation for how he does this, summon Orcus
    Quote Originally Posted by tKUUNK View Post
    first off, LentilNinja, I love the build you suggested! FUN is the word here.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by LentilNinja View Post
    Want more power? Sell your soul.

    1 dip in Warlock gets you Hex (+1d6 damage per hit), taking Hexblade grants the Hexblade's Curse (+proficiency to damage per hit, crit on 19/20). Congrats, you've gained a 5% increase to your crit chance & added 1d6+2 at least to each weapon.

    You'll get 1 other spell known, and Wrathful Smite & Shield. I'd pick Armor of Agathys over Hellish Rebuke, as you get Shield as a reaction anyway & Armor damages them back. For your 2 cantrips, since you're TWFing Booming & Green-Flame aren't of interest to you. Eldritch Blast scales with character so the damage is never not relevant, so if you get a hand free you can always throw one out. Blade Ward is a buff, but not very significant. If you're not bothered, I'd pick whatever sounds fun to use OoC.

    If you want to delve even further, another level will give you 2 invocations & another spell (Hellish Rebuke?). The invocations don't necessarily add any further combat prowess, though Fiendish Vigor can give you 8 more HP. Devil's Sight, Thief of Five Fates, Gaze of Two Minds, etc are all decent utility.

    If you're THEN crazy enough to delve even further, Warlock 3 opens up a myriad of options. Blade + Improved Pact Weapon lets you cast any of your spells while TWFing, Chain gives you a familiar to do flanking shenanigans with for advantage, and Tome + Book of Ancient Secrets gives you rituals to play with which no doubt probably offer you more power. I'd go into it, but I don't know enough cheese on that front.

    Anyway, when those otherworldly guys are tempting you with "the ultimate power" etc etc, they're not always lying.
    I mean, other than the fact that it was already stated that this is a straight battlemaster build, you're not wrong.

    Warlock dips. Who doesn't benefit, right?
    "If I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint threw a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..." - Dennis, aged 37 - Executive Officer of the Week, Anarcho-syndicalist commune, somewhere in Britain.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Safety Sword View Post
    I mean, other than the fact that it was already stated that this is a straight battlemaster build, you're not wrong.

    Warlock dips. Who doesn't benefit, right?
    Warlocks? 😀😀
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Warlocks? 😀😀
    By design I suspect

    Should have studied harder and gone to wizard college.
    Last edited by Safety Sword; 2019-09-18 at 07:12 AM.
    "If I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint threw a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..." - Dennis, aged 37 - Executive Officer of the Week, Anarcho-syndicalist commune, somewhere in Britain.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    hmm.

    keep in mind most maneuvers work with ranged weapons, and you can throw weapons as part of TWF. This will help you control combat without needing to be everywhere.

    and for what it's worth, take at least one maneuver that deals extra damage after the attack is a confirmed hit. Trip Attack is pretty nice if you have melee-centric allies (and with twf you'd benefit, too).

    In any case keep in mind your party's strengths and weaknesses when selecting maneuvers.

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    Corran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    I'll be playing a battle master fighter in an upcoming campaign. I know twf is weaker by comparison on the dpr side. Not really looking to debate/fix that.

    Instead I want ideas on how to be effective being a straight twf battle master fighter. What tricks, ideas, things, can they focus on to be maximally useful.
    In case no one mentioned it yet. The biggest benefit imo, is that you can be dex based. This improves your initiative, dex saves and your dex skills (pick stealth and avoid disadvantage on it by picking the right armor; breastplate, bump your dex asap and then change to studded leather). True, you could be s&b and dex based and be better than with twf, but the one advantage twf has over s&b builds, is that it will be a lot easier to change to a bow when needed. So, be dex based, pick stealth proficiency, bump dex early, and carry a longbow. And this is the point I start wondering why I shouldn't go with a longbow main fighter build instead, but yeah...
    Last edited by Corran; 2019-09-18 at 07:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    I hereby bestow upon you a magic sword, the Sword of Corran, which will henceforth be the only thing that can permanently destroy my withered undead hand and nose.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Safety Sword View Post
    I mean, other than the fact that it was already stated that this is a straight battlemaster build, you're not wrong.
    It's only your soul, it's not like anyone will notice.

    (in reality I may have glossed the OP)
    Last edited by LentilNinja; 2019-09-18 at 07:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    If the players demand a mechanical explanation for how he does this, summon Orcus
    Quote Originally Posted by tKUUNK View Post
    first off, LentilNinja, I love the build you suggested! FUN is the word here.

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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Become a mounted combatant. Grab lances. Dual weilding them is EXTREMELY strong

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    MadBear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    A lot of interesting advice. I guess, one thing I was wondering is outside of just doing damage, is there anything I can focus on that would help the party, especially considering my DM's giving me Dual Wielding for free, which does mean I'm free on feats.

    Also, despite the power it contains, I'm not quite ready to sell my characters soul immediately. (although, as the campaign goes forward, what happens between humans and otherworldly beings is between them).

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    A lot of interesting advice. I guess, one thing I was wondering is outside of just doing damage, is there anything I can focus on that would help the party, especially considering my DM's giving me Dual Wielding for free, which does mean I'm free on feats.

    Also, despite the power it contains, I'm not quite ready to sell my characters soul immediately. (although, as the campaign goes forward, what happens between humans and otherworldly beings is between them).
    Free duel wielding feat + defense style makes you one tough cookie.

    Battle master make solid support fighters as a whole and The ba attack is going to allow you to apply more conditions. like the the trip and goading/ menacing is a solid combo that can make you a pseudo tank.

    Grab mobile and go to town as a whirlwind of steel.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    Also, despite the power it contains, I'm not quite ready to sell my characters soul immediately. (although, as the campaign goes forward, what happens between humans and otherworldly beings is between them).
    And I admire your unwavering will! Though in your position, one does wonder. You're the Fighter! Think how many more lives you could ta-err.. save with just a teeny signature. Your friends would appreciate you, their victims would adore you, and your victims would even be grateful they suffered less from a lengthy slaughtering. We both know you can already save and slay man and beast, but with just a little John Hancock, who knows how far your.. overwhelming potential will take you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    If the players demand a mechanical explanation for how he does this, summon Orcus
    Quote Originally Posted by tKUUNK View Post
    first off, LentilNinja, I love the build you suggested! FUN is the word here.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by MadBear View Post
    A lot of interesting advice. I guess, one thing I was wondering is outside of just doing damage, is there anything I can focus on that would help the party, especially considering my DM's giving me Dual Wielding for free, which does mean I'm free on feats.
    That is very nice. With 20 Dex, you'll have an AC of 19 (12+5+1+1) before magic armor is available.

    A single level of Forge Cleric will give you either an additional +1 AC or +1 bonus to a nonmagic weapon, in addition to always having the Identify ritual prepared.

    Since you'll be using Finesse weapons,
    • Defensive dualist is an option - Gives you a +2 to +6 AC boost as a reaction
    • 3 levels of Swashbuckler Rogue will give 2d6 damage on sneak attacks, and half of the mobile feat, in addition to unlocking the cunning action and giving you +Cha to initiative

    A fun odd option would be investing 2 levels into Wizard:
    • Bladesinger would give you two charges of +Int to AC per short rest, an additional 10 movement speed, and advantage on acrobatics checks
    • War Wizard would give you a reaction that gives either +2 AC or +4 to a saving throw and +Int to Initiative.
    You'd play it like a "Spell-less" Wizard, with the "spells" being techniques and supernatural physique... things like Mage armor (boosting you to 20AC!), Feather fall, Shield, longstrider, jump, et cetera, in addition to ritual utility. The Bladesong itself is refluffed as a fencer's stance, or the Arcane Deflection is just a way to show that you're unnaturally fast.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
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    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
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    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Making the most out of a twf fighter

    If UA is on the table consider the Brute.

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