A Defense of the Banneret: A Mechanical Guide to a Supporting Fighter

[Ironheart]

A Defense of the Banneret

A (small) Guide to the Purple Dragon Knight subclass for Fighter
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.
-John Quincy Adams

[Work in Progress]

Hello! I hope I can convince those looking to play a supportive, leadership oriented character that the Purple Dragon Knight (PDK) is the class package that can really express that! Compared to other support centered classes, the PDK can seem limited at first glance, and from an optimization standpoint, doing all of these tasks without spellcasting can seem dangerous. However, with the customization of the fighter chassis, the PDK can heal, buff, and deal damage with the best of them.

This guide builds off of the concept of party efficiency, where if one role is fulfilled well enough by a single PC, other PC's can focus their characters into other aspects of the game.
One great example of this is the battlemaster archetype fighter. Often, a cleric or a druid might want to cast faerie fire, a concentration spell that grants advantage on a creature. However, the battle master can use one of his superiority dice to force a trip attack, which forces a creature to make a Strength saving throw or be knocked prone, which also grants advantage to melee attackers. The cleric or druid, seeing that they don't need to spend their spell granting advantage might spend their valuable concentration on a bless spell instead, to further compound the advantage. Or, they might simply choose to deal more damage with one of their cantrips, saving on their long rest limited spell slot for the next scenario.

Table of Contents

I. Playing a Purple Dragon Knight
II. Creating a PDK
III. Party Roles
IV. Supplements (Feats, Magic Items)
V. Multiclassing
VI. Builds

Color Schematics- for easy reading:

• As much as I wanted purple to be the color for this, convention begs me to put stellar, all around great options as sky blue.
• Blue indicates a solid pick, and one that I personally like.
• Bolded options are also solid picks, that can be considered as alternatives to blue. Every table varies.
• Options that are in red are not as good as other options could be.

Sourcebooks Referenced:
Player's Handbook (PHB)
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (SCAG)
Xanathar's Guide to Everything (XGtE)
Volo's Guide to Monsters (Volo's)
Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG)

[apply polishing and editing here]

[Ironheart]

PART I

Why play a banneret?

I found myself asking this same question. The Banneret occupies a strange niche of being a support and being a frontline fighter, and has to compete with the likes of Paladins and Bards when filling these two identities.

In the space of the other fighter subclasses, the Banneret seems much less flashy than the Samurai granting himself advantage or the Cavalier having unlimited reactions. Even the Champion, heralded by many as a more simple subclass than any others, seems better tailored to the ‘fightering’ job of hitting stuff and hitting stuff hard than the Banneret.

The Banneret’s strength lies rather in playing up the strengths of your party, particularly being effective for characters that deal lots of damage in single attacks. If action economy has a place in combat, then the PDK have a place in combat.

One strength of the Banneret is that his class abilities don’t scale with his ability modifiers. This means you have much more flexibility in building your character than other classes because once you max out your relevant combat scores, you are free to invest feats into other areas of the game. If you roll well for stats, this can lead to the PDK being a great fighter by virtue of his higher ability scores alone.

Spoiler: Rallying Cry

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The PDK, when viewed in the light of playing the role of a buff supplier, has interesting tools to work with. Right at level 3, you get an ability that doesn’t come for dedicated healers for another 2 levels- the ability to heal more than one target with a bonus action. Oh, and it refreshes on a short rest. Sure, Mass Healing Word lets you roll a d4 and lets you add your ability modifier, and can target more creatures, but when you’re level 3 such healing is only in the dreams of your clerics. This ability just requires verbal components as well- so your hands are always free.

Spoiler: Royal Envoy

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You gain expertise in Persuasion, and if you already have proficiency in persuasion, you select one of these four options to gain proficiency in: Animal Handling, Insight, Intimidation, or Performance.
This is a rare effect for fighters, which creates some nuance for earlier levels of play. If you are already dedicated to playing a party face, having the option to pick up Insight later. You have as many proficiencies as the bard! Picking up the Skilled feat puts you past a rogue in general skill versatility.

Spoiler: Inspiring Surge

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Level 10 gets you the best ability to use when flanking with an ally. What if I told you that you can get 6 attacks at advantage in a single turn at level 10, and still have your reaction for a Sentinel OA? Oh, and the 6th attack- It’s a Paladin smiting for an extra 4d8 damage if it lands.

Next level? That increases to 8 attacks. If you use some means to get a BA attack, you are causing as many attacks as a level 20 fighter action surging. This time you’re getting an effect that’s normally avaliable -9 levels- later. The only catch is that you need an ally nearby. A Samurai can come close to this amount of attacks at level 15, but has to give up advantage to do so.

Later on, you can do this twice. And you attack with -two- friends. I prefer to give the so called ‘God Wizard’ a long, knowing look as I recur this a second time, as you’ve nova’d for likely more than his level 9 spell will ever do. Twice.

If that sounds ridiculous- that’s because it is. Still think that PDK’s aren’t worth the wait?

Spoiler: Bulwark

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Let me introduce you to Bulwark. You don’t gain immunity from mental saves, but you get something almost as good- incentive not to target you with those things. What happens when you (and your friend) are targeted? You get incredible value even if you (and your friend) fail your save.
Wizards and clerics have a choice to make- spend their turn to just deal with you, or ignore you in favor of targeting the rest of the party. The only thing wrong with this ability is the fact you have limited uses for indomitable, and unlike most of your features, they don’t recharge off of a short rest.

Spoiler: Unedited thoughts on Bulwark and rerolling saves

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Bulwark only really functions in cases where you have a bad saving throw, and you are able to buff someone who typically has a good saving throw but botched his roll. In a world where Dex, Con and Str saving throws are the ones that matter more on the whole than your mental saves, and the other fact that mental saves don’t typically hit a group, just singular creatures. Regardless, I’ll list the spells that your bulwark will come in handy for by the relevant saves. After looking at a bunch of these, Bulwark seems to be a feature that encourages the DM to always ensure that you are on your feet to do something if he plans to disable the party.

Intelligence

Literally nothing spellwise targets both you and an ally at the same time. You can only help the Wizard with his throws when your friendly neighborhood mind flayer comes to town. If I were to balance this out, I’d switch this saving throw with Constitution or Strength, as they are both much more relevant.

Wisdom

Hold Person, if upcasted to hold you down and someone else. This is a devastating spell effect if cast on your party.

Fear - a pretty bad debuff for those who depend on attack rolls, like yourself. This will be one of the more frequent cases where using Bulwark will definitely work.

Hypnotic Pattern - much like hold person in that you don’t want to fail this save.

Slow - This one is of special importance to you to resist because having your extra attacks shut down is no good.

Command, if upcasted.

Confusion - Not having an action on 1-8 on a d10? Yikes. It’s good to avoid this.

Mass Suggestion - Now no bard can command your entire party to do the Cha-Cha slide.


Charisma

Bane! This, on paper, actually seems like a good reason to have this feature. As much as bless is a strong spell, Bane is also a very strong spell, and having it cast on the party can mean bad news for all of you. However... the caster can just *not* target you, nullifying the protection you grant. However, as a high level fighter, Bane actually affects you the most, so you make for a very risky target to hit with this spell.

Zone of Truth - This is an interesting case, where volunteering to fail your save can actually matter. If one PC has information that’s dangerous to be revealed, Indomitable can make sure they can lie freely, and that you have a chance to as well. Ask your DM about just auto using your indomitable to ensure someone who doesn’t wish to lie can roll twice.

Calm Emotions - Tbh this is a spell that doesn’t see much play on both sides of the screen.

Banishment (if upcasted) - the other really big spell that you need to watch for, although your effect only really works when *you* are targeted and it’s upcasted to include an ally. Taking Mage Slayer actually nullifies use of this spell against you, since if they decide to not banish you, you then become the biggest threat to having them blow their Concentration since you have 3 attacks at this point. If they try to Banish you, you have a better chance of making your save thanks to indomitable. The trick is to get close and just have one round of good attacks, using your bonus damage to bump up your Concentration DC

Seeming - Another fringe case in terms of spells, but in the case where you do not want to have your appearance altered at a caster’s whims for the next 8 hours, you and an ally will probably get to keep your appearance. (A DM more clever than me could get away with framing a party with a crime with this spell.)

Symbols of Fear, Hopelessness, Insanity, Sleep, and Stunning - Now this is a spell that you want to have a second chance on. All of these effects are pretty nasty as openers to an encounter, and smart DM’s will want to have encounters in tandem with as many characters being stunned (or just unable to take actions) as possible.

Divine Word - If this spell is a threat to your party, then you should be running. This spell can be dangerous to party members who are playing the unconsciousness gopher game of going down and coming back up. This is another spell that you might ask your DM if you can intentionally fail it, especially if you have over 50 hit points, so you can save an ally who isn’t so lucky with a reroll.

In a world where this feature only covers about 14 spells and maybe a little less of other monster-derived effects, (to a total of 30 or so instances) Bulwark is a feature that is hard to make relevant. On the other hand, the spells that it does influence (and remember, you can be a bit selfish and actually just spend them all on those Dex and Con saves) are actually... Quite powerful ones. Big hitters like Banishment, Hold Person, and Bane are typically hard counters to martial characters, but you grant rerolls, which has been stated elsewhere as a very strong mechanic. Think of Portent Wizards and Halflings.

So, Bulwark isn’t as bad as it may seem on paper, but remember, it only has it’s relevance as a 15th level feature, and it requires the DM to actually use these spells against you. And then you have to actually fail on the first roll in order for your party to benefit. You might wish to negotiate with your DM to be able to voluntarily fail initial saves just to make your feature more relevant, or just take the Lucky Feat and have Bulwark be an occasional luck point saver.

These conditions lead to some strange synergy with other features like Portent and Bardic Inspiration.

Let’s say you are trying to shield a badly injured ally from, say, a lethal Divine Word with a DC 17 Charisma save. You make your save, and your other party member fails. If the Portent wizard nearby has a roll that will cause you to fail, you can ask them to use it so that you can use indomitable, and give the party member a second chance, which potentially turns a terrible roll made by the Portent Wizard into clutch pseudo-advantage. Weird, right? And you can still make the save as well, since your die is being rerolled as well.

PART II

Creating a Purple Dragon Knight

[Reserved for I & II]

[Ironheart]

[Reserved for III & IV]

[Ironheart]

Part V:

Part VI:

The Fighter also known as 'Mom'
This fighter has effective healing, absurd armor proficiencies and a health pool uniquely qualified to save any of the sneaky kids from anything too hard for them to handle.

Spoiler: Mommy PDK

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Aasimar, probably picking up Folk Hero.

Level 1: Second Wind, Healing Hands, Protection fighting style

At this point- you are not a healer, you are a fighter. Levels 1-4 are arguably the hardest points of this class, since a lot of features and perks that make this composition work come in the later point of tier 1. However, this is offset by having one of the better classes in early levels: Fighter. d10 Hit dice does work, Action surge does work, and being an Aasimar helps too, since you get two resistances. You also get to impose disadvantage on attacks with the protection fighting style, helping the survivability of the party. You have Healing Hands (1 HP) once per long rest, so nobody that you can reach dies if you’ll have anything to say about it. Mommy gotta protect these weird kleptomaniac kids somehow.

Level 2: Action Surge

The next hardest thing about being a low level fighter- not much value out of your action surge. Regardless, being able to attack and dodge in the same turn is pretty good- just make sure you use this resource cautiously.

Level 3: PDK features

It’s here that you begin to help out the party as a whole, though in total you can give out about 12 points altogether once every long rest and 9 extra hit points in every short rest afterward. Not a lot, but it’s about to get much better.

Level 4: Healer Feat

All of a sudden, your healer’s kit becomes your most important resource. 1d6+4+Level is usually not that good by you also supplement your level onto healing for the whole group, which defaults to 12+1d6 points of free healing to everyone (before they spend hit dice, and you get your nice 1d10+level for you before you spend yours). The main thing to worry about is that while you -do- have healing on demand with the healer feat, it’s just not as good as a cleric. Your strength lies within saying “while we short rest, everyone gets an extra 1d6+8 hit points”, maybe saving it for those who are more fragile (in this group, your rogue) in case of a bad spill. As an Aasimar you also have the ability to focus your healing a little, healing for as much as 20 hit points on a single target with everything put together.

The main payoff for this style of play is that when your party does well to solve encounters without expending long rest resources. In typical parties, this means that your clerics and sorcerers get away with spending perhaps one of their higher level spell slots and while everyone may be damaged a bit more, but you can buffer that with a short rest rather than having to commit to a long rest.

Level 5: Extra Attack

Here, you become more proficient at dealing damage, and your healing goes up by 2 points when you combine Second Wind with the Healer dice. The fact you keep pace as a relevant threat on the front is really important to your role as a healer, because damage that your allies don’t take is effectively damage you won’t have to heal. You don’t mind because between your mighty d10 HD, your second wind uses, and your Healer feat (which you can also target yourself with) to cover any other HP you need.

Level 6: Inspiring Leader

Once again, you continue to buffer off of short rests by an amount scaling off of your level. This is temporary HP, which doesn’t technically count as healing, but most of your healing comes off of short rests anyway. Selection of this feat does infer that you have a pretty good charisma score- with the Aasimar's +2 to charisma you can get away with a 13 Charisma without having to tax your other scores. You can delay this feat selection for level 8 if improving your own durability or damage is your priority.

If you have time and money for it, training in a herbalism kit to brew potions can also supplement your healing. Potions and healer kits are both expensive, but once you’ve gotten a few rewards, and once the party sees how much healing you bring to the table, I’m sure they’ll want to pay down their health insurance. If your wisdom modifier is high enough, you can also try asking around to see if you can solicit scrolls of Cure Wounds at 2nd level, or potions of greater healing for a rainy day. Each cost about 250 gp, and you’ll be buying lots of healer’s kits for 5 gp each.

And... that's all of the requisite parts for the build. From here on out, you scale up according to your level, get better heals, and are able to help your party survive.

[Reserved for V & VI]

[Ironheart]

[Reserved for my paranoia]

[Yunru]

What if I told you that you can get 6 attacks at advantage in a single turn at level 10, and still have your reaction for a Sentinel OA? Oh, and the 6th attack- It’s a Paladin smiting for an extra 4d8 damage if it lands.

I'd tell you an Elven Samurai could do it better, at range, and deal more damage. Possibly even a regular Samurai.

Next level? That increases to 8 attacks.

I believe you mean 7? 6 from you, 1 from them.

Later on, you can do this twice.

Meanwhile the Samurai can do their call shtick three times in the first combat, and then once each following combat.

I prefer to give the so called ‘God Wizard’ a long, knowing look as I recur this a second time, as you’ve nova’d for likely more than his level 9 spell will ever do.

It's hyperbole, I know, but for more than 40d6 across a roughly 20000 feet area? Of course, you mention a God Wizard, so they're not even doing damage, that enemy's just no longer an issue anyway. And then they turn you into a frog with that 9th level spell you gave a knowing look about :P

If that sounds ridiculous- that’s because it is.

Ridiculous exaggeration, maybe :P

[micahaphone]

I haven't played one, but I guess my biggest gripe looking at them is that most of their abilities are tied to base fighter things.

-What if you want to heal your allies, but you personally aren't below half health?
-what if you want to hand out an extra attack, but aren't in a spot where you personally want to action surge?
-what if you roll a nat 20 on your save against the BBEG, but your ally rolls a nat 1?

I agree that the extra proficiency/expertise are nice. A stellar ribbon.

[Fable Wright]

Level 10 gets you the best ability to use when flanking with an ally. What if I told you that you can get 6 attacks at advantage in a single turn at level 10, and still have your reaction for a Sentinel OA? Oh, and the 6th attack- It’s a Paladin smiting for an extra 4d8 damage if it lands.

[[laughs in Druidic]]

Sixteen attacks from a velociraptor horde from level 5 w/Pack Tactics advantage, going up to 32 at level 9, conjured with one action. Trust me, the DPR is higher than a PDK will ever put out.

Next level? That increases to 8 attacks. If you use some means to get a BA attack, you are causing as many attacks as a level 20 fighter action surging. This time you’re getting an effect that’s normally avaliable -9 levels- later. The only catch is that you need an ally nearby. A Samurai can come close to this amount of attacks at level 15, but has to give up advantage to do so.

Gasp.

Later on, you can do this twice. And you attack with -two- friends. I prefer to give the so called ‘God Wizard’ a long, knowing look as I recur this a second time, as you’ve nova’d for likely more than his level 9 spell will ever do. Twice.

The God Wizard has a Simulacrum that was True Polymorphed into at least an Ancient Red Dragon. And Meteor Swarm/Wish/Foresight on that Elvish Accuracy Sharpshooter Samurai/Shapechange.

If that sounds ridiculous- that’s because it is. Still think that PDK’s aren’t worth the wait?

I mean, yes. Battlemaster gets godly martial skill per short rest at level 3, including the ability to Commander's Strike to let your allies get additional attacks. Eldritch Knights get Shield/Find Familiar/Absorb Elements/Dragon's Breath while your one unique feature is a small AoE heal, and then at level 10 can force you to make a save at disadvantage vs Hold Person on the action surge, with the juicy auto-crits at advantage.

Fighter has a really high bar to clear based off Champion/Samurai/Battlemaster/Eldritch Knight. PDK just does not get there.

I adore Royal Envoy, just because it opens up an entire new role for the Fighter in the party, but other than that? Features are pretty garbage.

[stoutstien]

I want to like the PDK but a cavalier with inspiring leader just does it better or a glamour bard with a small order domain dip or a BM with a Mastermind dip or.. well.. anything not using the banner.

[Ironheart]

I'd tell you an Elven Samurai could do it better, at range, and deal more damage. Possibly even a regular Samurai.

On the whole, the PDK will always have an additional attack (until level 15) because he has his bonus action to use rather than having to use it to gain advantage. That, and bonus dice from other classes that have stronger singular attacks pushes comparable numbers apart.

While I agree that a samurai can outdamage this combo if he leveraged Elven Accuracy to cancel out the penalty from Sharpshooter, that infers that higher AC opponents may have the fewer amount of attacks land, whereas the PDK (who requires no feat investment) enjoys a comparable degree of damage for enemies with lower AC and more reliable damage for enemies with higher AC's.

A better discussion of this principle is found at EvilAnagram's Fighter guide http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-to-Fightering on the first and second pages, I think.

As for doing it at range? Well, to each their own, but a PDK can also stand 60 feet away and still do the same thing. Samurai is better if more distance is more important, but the whole land big damage and then get out of counterattacking range schtick? Both subclasses are capable.

I believe you mean 7? 6 from you, 1 from them.

You have 6 from your attack actions, as well as an additional bonus attack and the ally's reaction attack, totaling 8.

Meanwhile the Samurai can do their call shtick three times in the first combat, and then once each following combat.

It's as if the Samurai is meant to function without any allies around or something. The only thing that the PDK has over this is that his healing from Rallying Cry will scale up to be more than the THP that the Samurai gains, and can be stacked with THP.

It's hyperbole, I know, but for more than 40d6 across a roughly 20000 feet area? Of course, you mention a God Wizard, so they're not even doing damage, that enemy's just no longer an issue anyway. And then they turn you into a frog with that 9th level spell you gave a knowing look about :P

Applying your ability modifier in damage is what makes it comparable, leaving alone the damage dice that you get to roll. And that's why Indomitable exists.

Ridiculous exaggeration, maybe :P

At least the ridiculousness generated this exchange.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Rogue.

Armored Rogue supports the party and depending on your DM heal with a healer's kit as a bonus action once per short rest if you take thief. Personally, I prefer mastermind with bonus action help.

Armored front line rogue has so many more options for build customization that there's never a reason to pick fighter other than "I like fighter and not having as many helpful features".

Other fighters deal more damage than the PDK, so that isn't a negative to the rogue.

Even if your DM doesn't let you use "use an item" as a bonus action work with healers kit (which, I get, but it isn't broken so...) you still get features that will allow you to run around the battlefield and stabilize or heal allies (potions if need be). You also at level 13 (with thief) get used magic device and can start using wands or whatever support spell you can get your grubby little hands on. This is far and away so much better than anything the PDK gets.

Anytime you think about playing the fighter, there's always a choice out there that's better, unless you just want to move and hit I guess (which isn't the point of a support fighter).

Arnored front line sword and board rogue is amazing at support.

[ad_hoc]

Level 3 is when the Fighter gets their core subclass ability.

And the Banneret's is terrible compared to what other subclasses get.

It isn't Mass Healing Word - it can't revive a character from 0.

I wouldn't call level 7 an 'earlier' level either for the Persuasion Expertise. 7 is the last level that I care about when looking at what a character will get. Everything after that I'm both not playing long enough to use much and have played too much already to have counted on.

[RickAllison]

The Banneret falls into the same category as Undying Warlock and, to a lesser extent, Battlerager for me; it's an immensely flavorful and cool subclass that I will always want to make work because it just hits the right cords for me... until I start thinking about how it will actually play compared to other subclasses. They are just bad. These are examples of subclasses that really should have been playtested with Unearthed Arcana because then they could see where they weren't really up to snuff. The heal is too little to matter for real healing, and it can't help when you want it to work most, when your healer (and maybe other PCs) is down. Like it or not, the strength of the fighter in 5e is being able to create a real depth of combat via feats that make you a blender. The best way to play a Banneret is to just acknowledge that you will never be a warlord, and accept that you are a fighter that can face and has some decent side effects. If you try to build around the Banneret chassis, you will end up sorely disappointed at the end of the day.

[NNescio]

Level 10 gets you the best ability to use when flanking with an ally. What if I told you that you can get 6 attacks at advantage in a single turn at level 10, and still have your reaction for a Sentinel OA? Oh, and the 6th attack- It’s a Paladin smiting for an extra 4d8 damage if it lands.

How are you getting advantage? Unless you're assuming flanking rules, which are optional. And neither is it 'universal' (automatic assumption on most forums and tables), unlike feats and multiclassing.

(Because flanking invalidates a lot of class features/spells/other effects [e.g. pack tactics] that are intended to grant advantage at some cost. Of course the Samurai is going to feel weaker after you cheapen one of its main shticks. Flanking wrecks game balance, and makes melee combat far deadlier than it should be [especially at lower levels].)

[Corran]

Bulwark has some distinct drawbacks that I think need mentioning. As is, I think that the guide's description of it tries to sell it as something that it's not.

First of all, it only affects half the saves, and I would say that it's the wrong half for how we can use it. AoE's will be what will trigger this effect most often, and most AoE's will be targeting dex saves. Not to mention that the number of things targeting dex, str or con is about triple the number of things targeting mental saves.

Secondly, and this another big drawback imo, it only triggers when you use indomitable, which by itself wouldn't be bad if there were not restrictions on when and how you can use indomitable. You can use indomitable only if you fail the save. If indomitable allowed you to use it whenever you wanted, and also allowed to pick between rolls, then bulwark would be far less situational than it currently is. Because as is, you want it when both you and an ally failed a mental save, which is very different in usefulness than if just an ally failed an important save. These things really make it a very situational feature for my liking.

There is however something that might be worth noticing. It does not specify timing regarding the ally's failed saving throw. It just needs to be from the same effect. So it can deal with pre existing conditions on your allies, as long as it's the same effect. This makes me think of stuff like being poisoned or being grappled or petrification, though such effects will normally target the saves that bulwark does not affect. I am not sure how useful this really is, but it's something extra there might be clever uses for.

I'd also make a mention of rogues when talking about inspiring surge. It's the allies that profit most from it, and given how little the subclass adds to the main class, having a rogue ally or not could be very important regarding the banneret's efficiency. Also, while inspiring surge is not much different compared to the battlemaster's commander's strike (or whatever that maneuver is called), I think it needs mentioning how well it has the potential to scale at higher levels. I am saying potential, cause that extra attack wont matter much unless you find a good candidate for it. At these levels (stealing ideas from posts above), we could be talking about a rogue (with 9-10 d6 sneak attack) and about someone using shapechange.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Bulwark has some distinct drawbacks that I think need mentioning. As is, I think that the guide's description of it tries to sell it as something that it's not.

First of all, it only affects half the saves, and I would say that it's the wrong half for how we can use it. AoE's will be what will trigger this effect most often, and most AoE's will be targeting dex saves. Not to mention that the number of things targeting dex, str or con is about triple the number of things targeting mental saves.

Secondly, and this another big drawback imo, it only triggers when you use indomitable, which by itself wouldn't be bad if there were not restrictions on when and how you can use indomitable. You can use indomitable only if you fail the save. If indomitable allowed you to use it whenever you wanted, and also allowed to pick between rolls, then bulwark would be far less situational than it currently is. Because as is, you want it when both you and an ally failed a mental save, which is very different in usefulness than if just an ally failed an important save. These things really make it a very situational feature for my liking.

There is however something that might be worth noticing. It does not specify timing regarding the ally's failed saving throw. It just needs to be from the same effect. So it can deal with pre existing conditions on your allies, as long as it's the same effect. This makes me think of stuff like being poisoned or being grappled or petrification, though such effects will normally target the saves that bulwark does not affect. I am not sure how useful this really is, but it's something extra there might be clever uses for.

I'd also make a mention of rogues when talking about inspiring surge. It's the allies that profit most from it, and given how little the subclass adds to the main class, having a rogue ally or not could be very important regarding the banneret's efficiency. Also, while inspiring surge is not much different compared to the battlemaster's commander's strike (or whatever that maneuver is called), I think it needs mentioning how well it has the potential to scale at higher levels. I am saying potential, cause that extra attack wont matter much unless you find a good candidate for it. At these levels (stealing ideas from posts above), we could be talking about a rogue (with 9-10 d6 sneak attack) and about someone using shapechange.

Also, Indomitable is once per long rest.

Once. Per. Long. Rest.

That's ridiculous for what indomitable does (crap feature to begin with) and what you get from the PDK.

Indomitable should have been "Con mod to saving throws" to be on equal with the Paladin.

[Corran]

Also, Indomitable is once per long rest.

Once. Per. Long. Rest.

That's ridiculous for what indomitable does (crap feature to begin with) and what you get from the PDK.

Indomitable should have been "Con mod to saving throws" to be on equal with the Paladin.

You get more uses as you level (2 times at lvl 13 and 3 times at lvl 17). It's not as good as sth like con mod to saves though, for sure.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

You get more uses as you level (2 times at lvl 13 and 3 times at lvl 17). It's not as good as sth like con mod to saves though, for sure.

Most won't get to 13, I actually hestitated talking about Use Magic Device for the thief due to this but at least UMD is a real class feature at that level.

[Nhorianscum]

To say a good thing about PDK. All of the class features are incredibly efficent in terms of action economy.

[HappyDaze]

The Banneret falls into the same category as Undying Warlock and, to a lesser extent, Battlerager for me; it's

They all fall into the same category for me: crap from SCAG and therefore stuff I do not use in my games. I really loathe everything about that book.

[RickAllison]

They all fall into the same category for me: crap from SCAG and therefore stuff I do not use in my games. I really loathe everything about that book.

I love the idea about all of them. A barbarian who fights by grappling and slamming his own body about? COOL! A Fighter who acts as face and has party support? GREAT! A pseudo-undead Warlock? AMAZING! But then the actual subclasses are so disappointing. If it weren't for the mechanics being so bad, those three would likely be my favorite subclasses for those classes.

[GlenSmash!]

I love the idea about all of them. A barbarian who fights by grappling and slamming his own body about? COOL! A Fighter who acts as face and has party support? GREAT! A pseudo-undead Warlock? AMAZING! But then the actual subclasses are so disappointing. If it weren't for the mechanics being so bad, those three would likely be my favorite subclasses for those classes.

I think back then WotC were so afraid of power creep that the SCAG subclasses all came out nerfed.

I have no explanation for the SCAG cantrips however.

[stoutstien]

I think back then WotC were so afraid of power creep that the SCAG subclasses all came out nerfed.

I have no explanation for the SCAG cantrips however.

Big issue was that Wotc core team didn't write the content for Scag. That's why all the subclasses are below the curve and the cantrips are above.

I forget who actually did the mechanics for it.

[Amechra]

That's why all the subclasses are below the curve and the cantrips are above.

"Above the curve" is an understatement. Assuming you keep your ability scores up, trigger their bonus damage, and are only using a d8 weapon, the weapon cantrips match Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast in terms of expected damage. That's before any optimization you do of the actual melee weapon attack they're attached to. It's just kinda goofy.

More on topic: The Banneret would actually be worth people's time if it just gave those powers out differently. Like, I dunno:

"At 3rd level, [healing power]. Whenever you use your Second Wind, you may use this feature without spending an action. Doing so does not count towards your uses of this feature."

[HappyDaze]

Big issue was that Wotc core team didn't write the content for Scag. That's why all the subclasses are below the curve and the cantrips are above.

I forget who actually did the mechanics for it.

Green Ronin, a company whose products I have done my best to stay clear.

[RickAllison]

Green Ronin, a company whose products I have done my best to stay clear.

Aren't they the group who did part of Mutants and Masterminds?

[stoutstien]

Green Ronin, a company whose products I have done my best to stay clear.

Thank you. I know his name was almost a colour but couldn't come up with it for the life of me.

[HappyDaze]

Aren't they the group who did part of Mutants and Masterminds?

Yes, M&M was theirs, along with the AGE system and it's offshoots, plus products for other game lines.

[ad_hoc]

How are you getting advantage? Unless you're assuming flanking rules, which are optional. And neither is it 'universal' (automatic assumption on most forums and tables), unlike feats and multiclassing.

If by 'most' you mean less than half.

The flanking rule I would guess is being used by less than 1% of tables though.

[RickAllison]

If by 'most' you mean less than half.

The flanking rule I would guess is being used by less than 1% of tables though.

I would heavily disagree with your characterization. Despite them being variant rules for simplicity, feats and multiclassing being on the table is the default assumption for all forums (you have to specify "No feats" or "No multiclassing" or dips and feats will come up), and there are no statistics out there I know of to corroborate either way for tables, but I'm inclined to think that most groups run with the full rules.