Next question about the artificer: alchemist savant

[stoutstien]

So alchemist have a feature that allows them to add int modifier to one roll of healing and certain damage types.

The question is can the alchemist apply this damage during any point in the spell duration as long as it happens during that turn. example: flaming sphere doesn't do damage on cast but you can use your Bonus action to ram it into someone.

Also due to wording of chemical mastery Heal gets the bonus +int.

[MrCharlie]

So alchemist have a feature that allows them to add int modifier to one roll of healing and certain damage types.

The question is can the alchemist apply this damage during any point in the spell duration as long as it happens during that turn. example: flaming sphere doesn't do damage on cast but you can use your Bonus action to ram it into someone.

Also due to wording of chemical mastery Heal gets the bonus +int.

Actually, chemical mastery Heal does not get the bonus +int because it's not a roll, it simply restores a set amount. Otherwise, Aid would get the bonus as well, which it does not; i'd argue the intent is there though, because it specifically mentions the alchemists supplies and heal does not normally have material components.

Otherwise-yeah, you can apply it to any roll of the spell, so long as you only do it once. In fact, the fact that it's only one roll is part of what makes the alchemist worse than other options-it has almost entirely Damage Over Time abilities that would really benefit if it was simply a once per turn ability, but almost no AOE that isn't DOT and thus they lag behind similar abilities in artillerist, evoker, and sorcerer which similarly boost damage but have the spells to back it up. It would go a long way to building their niche is they were the lords of persistent damage, and fit with the theme of many of their spells, but alas! 'Tis not to be!

[Anderlith]

So alchemist have a feature that allows them to add int modifier to one roll of healing and certain damage types.

The question is can the alchemist apply this damage during any point in the spell duration as long as it happens during that turn. example: flaming sphere doesn't do damage on cast but you can use your Bonus action to ram it into someone.

Also due to wording of chemical mastery Heal gets the bonus +int.

You gain a bonus to one roll of the spell, so yeah, it is technically worded in a way as to apply even if the roll isn’t immediate. I’m curious if you would agree that the wording doesn’t necessitate a damage roll, so you could pump up an spell attack roll

[stoutstien]

Actually, chemical mastery Heal does not get the bonus +int because it's not a roll, it simply restores a set amount. Otherwise, Aid would get the bonus as well, which it does not; i'd argue the intent is there though, because it specifically mentions the alchemists supplies and heal does not normally have material components.

Otherwise-yeah, you can apply it to any roll of the spell, so long as you only do it once. In fact, the fact that it's only one roll is part of what makes the alchemist worse than other options-it has almost entirely Damage Over Time abilities that would really benefit if it was simply a once per turn ability, but almost no AOE that isn't DOT and thus they lag behind similar abilities in artillerist, evoker, and sorcerer which similarly boost damage but have the spells to back it up. It would go a long way to building their niche is they were the lords of persistent damage, and fit with the theme of many of their spells, but alas! 'Tis not to be!

Your right on heal but I'll let it apply because it makes sense.

I may let the damage be once a turn si they could be the DoT king but I need to see one in real play before hand.

[stoutstien]

You gain a bonus to one roll of the spell, so yeah, it is technically worded in a way as to apply even if the roll isn’t immediate. I’m curious if you would agree that the wording doesn’t necessitate a damage roll, so you could pump up an spell attack roll

Unfortunately no, the next line states that the roll must restore hit points or deal X types of damage.
Do have the enhanced arcane focus for +1 to hit later +2.

[Anderlith]

Unfortunately no, the next line states that the roll must restore hit points or deal X types of damage.
Do have the enhanced arcane focus for +1 to hit later +2.

Ah. I had player blinders on. I read “spell” not “damage”

[MrCharlie]

Your right on heal but I'll let it apply because it makes sense.

I may let the damage be once a turn si they could be the DoT king but I need to see one in real play before hand.

I suspect it wouldn't be too broken, mostly because we could originally do that with draconic sorcerer and the like, and people weren't interested because novaing was more important, so people went for scorching ray despite it being single target and the duration AOE spells technically doing similar damage over multiple turns (10 scorching rays versus 10 rounds of wall of fire).

In general, it's really hard to get long duration spells to really work-which is why having that be the alchemist's niche would be so fun. Artificers in general are really geared to the preparation aspect of things with their abilities, and I think that's a good place to be as a class.

[Damon_Tor]

because it specifically mentions the alchemists supplies and heal does not normally have material components.

Point of fact: all artificer spells de facto require material components, because part of the artificer spellcasting feature requires you to have a tool or infused item in hand to cast any artificer spell. It's something of an open question how this interacts with the normal spellcasting rules, specifically whether or not a hand holding an implement can also perform somatic components on a spell that normally requires only somatic components. The artificer feature does not actually add the material component to the spell which means by strict RAW it appears an artificer would need BOTH a free hand AND a hand on their implement to cast a spell like Shield.

[MrCharlie]

Point of fact: all artificer spells de facto require material components, because part of the artificer spellcasting feature requires you to have a tool or infused item in hand to cast any artificer spell. It's something of an open question how this interacts with the normal spellcasting rules, specifically whether or not a hand holding an implement can also perform somatic components on a spell that normally requires only somatic components. The artificer feature does not actually add the material component to the spell which means by strict RAW it appears an artificer would need BOTH a free hand AND a hand on their implement to cast a spell like Shield.

It also does not say the artificer needs to be holding the item, only have it "in hand". Point being, if they aren't using it like a normal material focus it also does not need to occupy their hand like a normal material focus, because it does not explicitly say it does; the items wouldn't keep the hand from being "free" for casting somatic components. The game never really defines what a free hand is, or what having something in hand is either. More simply, it does not say that the tools can't be held in the same hand that's holding a shield (for instance) while you cast, if they aren't being used as material components.

But ultimately this is immaterial because the infused item rule makes is trivial to bypass-at the simplest, the artificer could use a prosthetic hand, which, as it's an infused item, is also capable of being the material component for a spell. Others, like rings, can easily be worn on the hand that is using a spell. And in the one situation where this interpretation matters-an artificer using a shield or weapon...Well, those items are highly likely to be infused and thus holding them in the off-hand while you cast satisfies the rule, even off turn.

Oh; and I got sidetracked, I agree that it's absolutely an open question on what the heck that means, but the ability would work if it had a roll because you do use artificers tools to cast it.