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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Protolisk View Post
    2. Steeds from Find Steed can Help action if you aren't riding them.
    It can Help even if you are riding them, though I know some DMs have formed opinions about this. They're intelligent creatures (at least INT 6, so the level of dolphins and apes and other highly intelligent animals) with a telepathic bond and you explicitly "fight as a seamless unit". And I know Crawford's tweets aren't worth what they used to be, but he agrees.

    And many of the mount options can knock guys prone with their attacks anyway. These sort of tactics makes the exact order of initiative highly relevant, because you'll need the mount's turn before the paladin's but without the intended target getting a turn in between, but then again you can always have the mount use "help" during the encounters where the particular of the initiative order don't favor you, and use the trample option when they do.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2019-09-19 at 02:47 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Spoiler: First thoughts about oath of heroism
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    I like the channel divinities.

    a) With legendary strike you are the smitiest paladin that ever smite (and from what I understand, most of the fluff is around that, cause heroes embracing their destiny is all about their big moments, and crit smite is a good representation of that). Most of the other features synergize with this approach.

    b) With peerless athlete, you could make a great grappler (or shield master, if you are not using the crappy version). I'd like some more synergy here from the other features. Lots of things synergize with legendary strike, but almost nothing else from the oath helps with this approach. I'd like to see enlarge/reduce on the spell list. It's more thematic anyway (hone the body tenet) than most of the spells there, and it would give some more validation to this CD.


    I don't like mighty deed (lvl 7 feature) too much. I think it's a bit weak. I kind of see it as a carrot for smiting more, which is fine, as boosting smites seems intentional for this oath. Still, I think this feature needs a little boosting to bring it on par with everything else. Though, now you are a bit better against hordes, which is a paladin weakness. Still, a bit weak for my liking. What I absolutely hate is the possibility of frightening enemies. There is another oath for that, just do something else. Don't step on toes. I also don't like how the teamwork potential of this feature plays with the being a hero aspect of this oath. Thematically, I would value a lot more something more 'selfish' instead of what we get at level 7. Maybe a flat damage boost like the ones the oathbreaker give. Maybe a movement boost. I don't know. But something passive that only affects the paladin would fit the whole theme better imo.


    I love glorious defense (lvl 15 feature). It's weak (especially compared to other oath features of this level), but I love it. More uses of reactions and bonus action, I want features with that action economy on the paladin. Side note, but I also like how the features don't forget to utilize or to depend on charisma.


    I am not sure about living myth (lvl 20 feature). Can't decide if it's good or bad.


    Unless I am missing something, I can't get my head around the spell list. Did they just pick spells randomly? Anyway, expeditious retreat is weirdly (due to its name), the most thematic in term of mechanics. Leading a charge (thanks to superior speed) seems very spot on. Or making that great run to come to the rescue or help of an ally in danger. You can share it with your mount too. But otherwise, I can't get my head around the spell list. Well, I understand why they included haste, as the other puts some emphasis on getting more attacks with which to smite), but I think the spells are lacking thematically. I'd really like to see enlarge in it.
    Last edited by Corran; 2019-09-19 at 03:17 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcloud View Post
    Re-reading the discussion, I think the heroism crit rate is weak, UNLESS you build around it (with some help of your friends).

    Hexblade 3 Paladin Heroisn 17, 2 ASI in cha, elven accuracy, Greatweapon master.

    Triple dice rolling with crit range 19-20, with each crit garanteeing an extra attack and an effect (THP or Fear)? That's pretty awesome. But you do need help on that advantage.
    They're kind of natively built to exploit crits though. Mighty Deed and Smite are awesome tools. Half the reason the vPally CD is good is because it boosts crit rates. (the other half is of course GWM) And hPally crits are even better. I don't really think that having an ally able to grant advantage really requires build resources since, TBH, pretty much every character has ways to grant other characters advantage.

    Total sidenote, but a Samurai/hPally would have insane burst. Walk in, fire off your CD, Fighting Spirit, and action surge, make 5 attacks (with haste) and triple advantage and smites to power up the crits. The best part there is, you can split that between any number of characters, and the only pre-casting you need is Haste. Oh, and every part but the smite works at range.

    Missed that, did you? Mighty Deed and Legendary strike work on all ranged attacks. Granted that only the tHP effect is really useful.

    To be honest, I'm feeling this as being a really good dexadin sublcass.
    I'm a tad rude. It's a tendency of mine that I'm trying to get better about. Call me out on it if you see it.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    I don't know whether to feel frustrated or indirectly proud that other people are restating a lot of my points and people are agreeing. I think I'll stick with proud. Can;t say I haven't done the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    ...

    Total sidenote, but a Samurai/hPally would have insane burst. Walk in, fire off your CD, Fighting Spirit, and action surge, make 5 attacks (with haste) and triple advantage and smites to power up the crits. The best part there is, you can split that between any number of characters, and the only pre-casting you need is Haste. Oh, and every part but the smite works at range.

    Missed that, did you? Mighty Deed and Legendary strike work on all ranged attacks. Granted that only the tHP effect is really useful.

    To be honest, I'm feeling this as being a really good dexadin sublcass.
    Could probably add some Assassin levels as well. Get advantage (or auto-crits) first turn, pop your CD, Action Surge, attack a bunch, then use Fighting Spirit on subsequent rounds. If you trust your odds to hit, you can even save your sneak attack until the last or second-to-last attack, holding out for a crit. That compensates for you not being able to use your CD and FS on the same turn, and gives you a couple extra damage dice to play around with. If you pull off surprise, you've got four potential crit-smites to work with, and you get some THP or fear on the enemies that aren't surprised/went before you in combat.
    Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-09-19 at 03:28 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    Total sidenote, but a Samurai/hPally would have insane burst. Walk in, fire off your CD, Fighting Spirit, and action surge, make 5 attacks (with haste) and triple advantage and smites to power up the crits. The best part there is, you can split that between any number of characters, and the only pre-casting you need is Haste. Oh, and every part but the smite works at range.
    .
    Yes, legendary holy bowman would be pretty decent and fit the Samurai and Hero Paladin theme. CD and FS overlap for your bonus action though so it would take a full buff round to setup.

    Round 1 - Cast Haste, BA:CD, Haste attack
    Round 2 - BA:FS, Attack x2, Action Surge Attack x2, Haste Attack

    Triple Advantage /w expanded crit range and Sharpshooter would give you some pretty mean damage even without the ability to smite at range.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2019-09-19 at 03:37 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Wait wait wait wait.

    Did we...

    Are we in agreement this UA is fairly acceptable?

    Find out what Cleric used Divine Intervention, because this is a miracle!
    Yeah, I have no problems really with either one. I just don’t find the bard one all that interesting is all.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Myrmidon View Post
    I really like the mechanics of both!


    Flavorwise, I find that both are iffy. Only because of people on the internet, though. Bard one is all about logic, speeches, oratory, and stuff like that. Played poorly, I worry that it's "Neckbeard, the subclass". Played well, it seems like an awesome diplomat class, and a way to actually have mechanical enforcement of a "peacemaker" character. They get Calm Emotions for free cha times per rest! And more that I won't babble about just now!

    The paladin is about embracing the heroic destiny the gods have given you. You train your body, inspire others, and jump at the chance to challenge yourself. Played poorly I worry it's "Meathead jock the class" or "Toxic Masculinity paladin". Played well, I think it could be the ultimate heroic type, who is just super excited to have the chance to go on adventures and make the world a better place.
    Thanks for the laugh!

    The irony is that, with the Greek Myth feel people are picking up from those classes ... I now wonder ... was Hercules a meathead jock? Was Odysseus a neckbeard? (I suppose he at least HAD a neckbeard after all those years of getting lost ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainTiger View Post
    Killing a rat before battle for temp HP does seem lame, but sacrificing something more respectable fits the "Greek Hero" feel that people have picked up.
    Cattle is traditional.

    Though I wonder if sacrificing a young woman (as has occasionally happened in Greek mythology) would really fit with the feel you want for D&D paladins ...

    Greek myth heroes: Not all that heroic from a modern point of view.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2019-09-19 at 03:49 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    On the champion/paladin MC: If all you got for 3 levels of Champion was the extended crit range it would be garbage.

    I do like the Sam/Paly MC well enough though.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    So, the Paladin of Heroism is making me think of a shonen protagonist for some reason. Your great strength makes you destined to be Paladin Prime Minister

    The Bard's undeniable logic is clearly so your fans can prove you would totally beat Superman and Goku in a fight
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSnake'sCha View Post
    Wow, I need my DM to let me change from Glamour to Eloquence.

    I worked hard to get the same abilities the Eloquence gives for my Glamour bard.



    He agreed, not to write is as Homebrew in D&D Beyond :)
    (Since everyone else is only talking about Paladin, let's talk Bard of Eloquence.)

    I know right? It's a very specific niche of playing, but so satisfying to pull off.

    The good thing of going Eloquence over, let's say, Lore, is the extra casts of Calm Emotions. It's almost like having multiclassed secretly as warlock.

    And being able to talk to a few creatures, whatever their intelligence and language, with advantage on charisma checks. But it isn't a Charm Effect! So you have advantage even against the enemies under Calm Emotions!

    And you can ask favors to rats, pidgeons, cats, dogs, tell bears you have food for them if they allow safe passage, convince elementals and demons to tell you about their master so you break their concentration (and they rebel), talk to undead. Tons of utility there.

    Sure, imposing disadvantage on next save if the enemy fails int save seems bad, but then you follow up immediately with something nasty like Bestow Curse or Banishment.
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    Now you have me picturing someone using a Pretentious Fantasy Sword of Destiny for mundane tasks.

    "It is called Chirodin, Blade of Eternity! It was forged in the heart of the sun by the god Dathir, using the moon as a hammer and the corpse of Turtaris, Mother of All Dragons, as an anvil. No physical barrier can divert its blow, for it always goes exactly where its wielder wills it. So, as you can imagine, it cuts simply amazing flank steaks!"

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Though I wonder if sacrificing a young woman (as has occasionally happened in Greek mythology) would really fit with the feel you want for D&D paladins ...

    Greek myth heroes: Not all that heroic from a modern point of view.
    Truth be told, I don't remember my greek mythology very well anymore, but how many greek myth heroes sacrificed young women? If I recall, mostly villains or other non-heroic commoners would do that.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2019-09-19 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Truth be told, I don't remember my greek mythology very well anymore, but how many greek myth heroes sacrificed young women? If I recall, mostly villains or other non-heroic commoners would do that.
    Iphigenia is gonna be a little perturbed to hear that.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    Iphigenia is gonna be a little perturbed to hear that.
    So, what, one (1) young woman having been sacrificed by a hero in greek myths, when the myths include dozens of other heroes who didn't commit the act, is still enough to denigrate all greek heroes?

    In other words, does one bad apple really spoil the bunch?



    Besides, I literally said "mostly" villains and non-heroic commoners. Obviously that doesn't include everyone, especially in this case Agamemnon.

    But fair enough, Agamemnon was a hero who did sacrifice a young woman in order to please a goddess (whom he had offended earlier). Then again, Artemis's wrath was whimsical at best (seriously, Agamemnon accidentally killed a deer that was sacred to Artemis), and honestly, I wouldn't blame Agamemnon who clearly had no choice in the matter. Clearly, the sad story is to impose a moral dilemma. I'm not sure if was confirmed in Iliad, but Artemis's disfavor during the Trojan War could've affected Agamemnon's success in the Trojan War.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2019-09-20 at 12:50 AM.
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    So, what, one (1) young woman having been sacrificed by a hero in greek myths, when the myths include dozens of other heroes who didn't commit the act, is still enough to denigrate all greek heroes?

    In other words, does one bad apple really spoil the bunch?



    Besides, I literally said "mostly" villains and non-heroic commoners. Obviously that doesn't include everyone, especially in this case Agamemnon.

    But fair enough, Agamemnon was a hero who did sacrifice a young woman in order to please a goddess (whom he had offended earlier). Then again, Artemis's wrath was whimsical at best (seriously, Agamemnon accidentally killed a deer that was sacred to Artemis), and honestly, I wouldn't blame Agamemnon who clearly had no choice in the matter. Clearly, the sad story is to impose a moral dilemma. I'm not sure if was confirmed in Iliad, but Artemis's disfavor during the Trojan War could've affected Agamemnon's success in the Trojan War.
    *screams in Alcestis*

    (Admitedly this one is a bit more indirect)
    Last edited by Nhorianscum; 2019-09-20 at 12:53 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    So, what, one (1) young woman having been sacrificed by a hero in greek myths, when the myths include dozens of other heroes who didn't commit the act, is still enough to denigrate all greek heroes?

    In other words, does one bad apple really spoil the bunch?



    Besides, I literally said "mostly" villains and non-heroic commoners. Obviously that doesn't include everyone, especially in this case Agamemnon.

    But fair enough, Agamemnon was a hero who did sacrifice a young woman in order to please a goddess (whom he had offended earlier). Then again, Artemis's wrath was whimsical at best (seriously, Agamemnon accidentally killed a deer that was sacred to Artemis), and honestly, I wouldn't blame Agamemnon who clearly had no choice in the matter. Clearly, the sad story is to impose a moral dilemma
    Well, Odysseus was sure okay with it too. And, for that matter, Achilles, after she consented. And, you know, every other Greek Hero involved in the war at that time, by extension.

    It's certainly not casual slaughter for minor benefits, so I'm mostly quibbling anyway

    _______________________

    Also, the self-important hero archetype is hardly unique to Greek Myth. Like, I wouldn't be shocked if you told me Gaston had this Oath. Actions over Words? He''s definitely one for just barging through objections instead of persuading people. Challenges are but Tests? Refusing him only makes him more determined. Hone the Body? Say what you will, the guy has some nice guns. And you better believe he embraced his destiny (as he sees it) of sharing his greatness with everyone he can
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    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    Anyone else look at the Heroism Paladin and hear "I Need A Hero"? Cast Expeditious Retreat, CD for Peerless Athlete, Mighty Deed as you mulch through enemies:

    "He's got to be strong, and he's got to be fast, and he's got to be fresh from the fight."
    I love this :) but going back to the Oath of Heroism. I think that this is a very good sub-class but would heavily favor some way to get advantage as doubling to tripling your chances at a critical hit is far to useful for triggering Mighty Deed. I have been looking forward to trying a crit-fisher half elf with a great sword for some time :)
    Last edited by Citadel97501; 2019-09-20 at 08:02 AM.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Ok, Paladin (Heroism) X, Warlock 3 (any but conceptually feylock or celestial are likely best, functionality take hexblade)

    Drow or half elf work best, but most things work

    Darkness and devil’s sight for advantage, Elven accuracy

    Spam eldritch blast

    71.7% chance of proccing mighty deed per round, not even counting kills, which you should get.

    Want more?

    Heroism 8, warlock 3, sorcerer x. Or warlock 2 sorcerer x for pure late game and Use improved invisibility

    92.0% chance of proccing mighty deed before kills, and you’ll bloody well be getting those.

    Less damage than the Heroism sorcadin crit fishing smite knight but great control

    Or a metric tonne of thp

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Ok, Paladin (Heroism) X, Warlock 3 (any but conceptually feylock or celestial are likely best, functionality take hexblade)

    Drow or half elf work best, but most things work

    Darkness and devil’s sight for advantage, Elven accuracy

    Spam eldritch blast

    71.7% chance of proccing mighty deed per round, not even counting kills, which you should get.

    Want more?

    Heroism 8, warlock 3, sorcerer x. Or warlock 2 sorcerer x for pure late game and Use improved invisibility

    92.0% chance of proccing mighty deed before kills, and you’ll bloody well be getting those.

    Less damage than the Heroism sorcadin crit fishing smite knight but great control

    Or a metric tonne of thp
    Possibly both control & the THP if you use Repelling Blast (Sea Origin Sorcerer makes this even more ridiculous).

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by AdAstra View Post
    I don't know whether to feel frustrated or indirectly proud that other people are restating a lot of my points and people are agreeing. I think I'll stick with proud. Can;t say I haven't done the same.



    Could probably add some Assassin levels as well. Get advantage (or auto-crits) first turn, pop your CD, Action Surge, attack a bunch, then use Fighting Spirit on subsequent rounds. If you trust your odds to hit, you can even save your sneak attack until the last or second-to-last attack, holding out for a crit. That compensates for you not being able to use your CD and FS on the same turn, and gives you a couple extra damage dice to play around with. If you pull off surprise, you've got four potential crit-smites to work with, and you get some THP or fear on the enemies that aren't surprised/went before you in combat.
    Meh, I'm of the opinion that 3 levels of rogue for the assassin feature is kind of a waste generally. The surprise crits don't come up all that often and typically if you can surprise an enemy they're dead anyway.
    I'm a tad rude. It's a tendency of mine that I'm trying to get better about. Call me out on it if you see it.
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    It's interesting that an Eloquence Bard's Universal Speech doesn't let you understand the thing you're using it on, they can only understand you. This limits its use quite a bit on the information gathering side of things. I guess asking for specific charades as answer-forms might work, but you're kind of stuffed if whatever you're charisma'ing them for requires a proper answer.

    It reminds me of Firbolg's Speech of Beast and Leaf. You can tell animals what to do, but they can't reply. At least you can turn USpeech off though, Firbolg's can't ever turn off SoBaL.
    Last edited by sambojin; 2019-09-20 at 09:47 AM.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Ok, Paladin (Heroism) X, Warlock 3 (any but conceptually feylock or celestial are likely best, functionality take hexblade)

    Drow or half elf work best, but most things work

    Darkness and devil’s sight for advantage, Elven accuracy

    Spam eldritch blast

    71.7% chance of proccing mighty deed per round, not even counting kills, which you should get.

    Want more?

    Heroism 8, warlock 3, sorcerer x. Or warlock 2 sorcerer x for pure late game and Use improved invisibility

    92.0% chance of proccing mighty deed before kills, and you’ll bloody well be getting those.

    Less damage than the Heroism sorcadin crit fishing smite knight but great control

    Or a metric tonne of thp
    Is it that great? You're level 9 before you can possibly EB+Darkness+Sight+Deed, and you lack cha mod to damage on your two bolts. You can't smite on EB crits, so you're just rolling 2d10 on any of them. Only capable of level two spells. You have to go dex to use Elven accuracy in melee so you're at increased MAD. All of the control is still based on a Wis save but you're behind on ASIs.
    Like, it's interesting in some ways but isn't some kind of "wowzers that's nuts" build.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by rbstr View Post
    Is it that great? You're level 9 before you can possibly EB+Darkness+Sight+Deed, and you lack cha mod to damage on your two bolts. You can't smite on EB crits, so you're just rolling 2d10 on any of them. Only capable of level two spells. You have to go dex to use Elven accuracy in melee so you're at increased MAD. All of the control is still based on a Wis save but you're behind on ASIs.
    Like, it's interesting in some ways but isn't some kind of "wowzers that's nuts" build.
    He can have Ago Blast, if he already has Devil's Sight, then his second Invocation can be Ago Blast (which is a pretty popular combination).

    Also, why would he need to go Dex? Its a Hexblade Paladin, everything is Cha based.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Wildarm's Avatar

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Ok, Paladin (Heroism) X, Warlock 3 (any but conceptually feylock or celestial are likely best, functionality take hexblade)

    Drow or half elf work best, but most things work

    Darkness and devil’s sight for advantage, Elven accuracy

    Spam eldritch blast

    71.7% chance of proccing mighty deed per round, not even counting kills, which you should get.
    OK I guess but nothing crazy strong. Temp HP each round is nice but still only those within 30' of you. Spamming the fear effect seems more effective to me. You can lock down multiple enemies with that approach. Occasionally top up the THP of yourself, your mount and other front liners.

    A Elven Dex Paladin using a Double Bladed Scimitar might work well. Ride in with your steed and have them make a shove attack to knock a foe prone and then unload on them. At level 7 that's 3 attacks, with tri-vantage and expanded crit range. Should be able to trigger fear every round between crits and kills. Improved invisibility or prone effects from an ally would be another good tactic.

    Basically saying there are less costly ways to gain advantage than spending 3 levels on warlock and a round in combat casting darkness.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2019-09-20 at 12:22 PM.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    He can have Ago Blast, if he already has Devil's Sight, then his second Invocation can be Ago Blast (which is a pretty popular combination).

    Also, why would he need to go Dex? Its a Hexblade Paladin, everything is Cha based.
    You’d go Dex so that you could go celestial or feylock, which meshes well with Heroism.

    But otherwise, no, you’d probably take str15 and a level or three of hexblade at level 2

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    You’d go Dex so that you could go celestial or feylock, which meshes well with Heroism.

    But otherwise, no, you’d probably take str15 and a level or three of hexblade at level 2
    Tbh, i don't think either of those meshes well with this Oath of Heroism fluffwise.

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    Basically saying there are less costly ways to gain advantage than spending 3 levels on warlock and a round in combat casting darkness.
    No doubt, and if your method is shadow blade, you’ll be doing boat loads of damage

    You will not be making 4 attacks a round, or 8 if you take sorcerer for quicken. 8 attacks with EA is 24 rolls.

    And yes I agree I’d Expect to use fear most of the time.
    Last edited by Spiritchaser; 2019-09-20 at 12:34 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Tbh, i don't think either of those meshes well with this Oath of Heroism fluffwise.
    Obviously you are most entitled to feel that way

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    No doubt, and if your method is shadow blade, you’ll be doing boat loads of damage

    You will not be making 4 attacks a round, or 8 if you take sorcerer for quicken. 8 attacks with EA is 24 rolls.

    And yes I agree I’d Expect to use fear most of the time.
    Quicken would make the EB approach very strong. Doesn't come online till level 13 unfortunately. Even waiting till level 7 for a key build feature is tough.

    I like the idea of a Kobold Paladin of Heroism. Unfortunately you can't take Elven Accuracy with that so crit fishing isn't nearly as productive but you get easy access to advantage.

    How about this build though:

    Half-Elf
    Pally 8/Sorc 3
    Elven Accuracy, and Magic Initiate(Warlock)
    Would get you the Quickened EB spam without the need for 3 warlock levels. Just need to find a way to get advantage on the rolls.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2019-09-20 at 12:49 PM.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    Quicken would make the EB approach very strong. Doesn't come online till level 13 unfortunately. Even waiting till level 7 for a key build feature is tough.

    I like the idea of a Kobold Paladin of Heroism. Unfortunately you can't take Elven Accuracy with that so crit fishing isn't nearly as productive but you get easy access to advantage.

    How about this build though:

    Half-Elf
    Pally 8/Sorc 3
    Elven Accuracy, and Magic Initiate(Warlock)
    Would get you the Quickened EB spam without the need for 3 warlock levels. Just need to find a way to get advantage on the rolls.
    EB without any accompanying invocations is a very meh as a primary attack and not really worth taking a feat for compared to something like Shadow Blade + quickened BB
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    Default Re: A new Unearthed Arcana appears! College of Eloquence and Oath of Heroism paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    Quicken would make the EB approach very strong. Doesn't come online till level 13 unfortunately. Even waiting till level 7 for a key build feature is tough.

    I like the idea of a Kobold Paladin of Heroism. Unfortunately you can't take Elven Accuracy with that so crit fishing isn't nearly as productive but you get easy access to advantage.

    How about this build though:

    Half-Elf
    Pally 8/Sorc 3
    Elven Accuracy, and Magic Initiate(Warlock)
    Would get you the Quickened EB spam without the need for 3 warlock levels. Just need to find a way to get advantage on the rolls.
    I wouldn’t do this... I’d want those invocations...

    However you could make it work with shadow sorc for darkness

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