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    DruidGuy

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    Lightbulb Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    We've focused on every character's backstory at least a little over the course of OotS, except for Belkar. We don't know anything about his past at all except that he lived in a halfling village. This village could easily be related to Serini, especially because of two reasons:

    1. Belkar was absent during the background info, and thus probably only got a brief summary, later on. He may not have connected the name Serini to the gates, especially since he was absent for Girard's message, too.

    2. Serini didn't stay at her gate, and instead continued adventuring. Perhaps she settled down and either founded or joined a small halfling town.

    If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, please post it. If there is no evidence, I'll put 5 quataloos on it. Normal theory disclaimer applies, of course.
    Last edited by PhyrexianShovel; 2019-09-18 at 07:18 PM. Reason: formatting issues

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    As for why there is no backstory on Belkar, my memory is that Rich commented (perhaps in one of the books - likely On the Origin of PC's) that providing an explanation of why Belkar was a psychopathic monster would detract from his usefulness as a character. What's the point of showing a terrible childhood where he was abused if that would just make him sympathetic? Can't find the book right now or I would look it up for you.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    It's not explicitly impossible, but that's the only thing going for this theory at the moment.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroțila View Post
    It's not explicitly impossible, but that's the only thing going for this theory at the moment.
    I couldn't put it better myself. It's about as likely as Xykon turning out to be Elan's long lost second cousin.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I couldn't put it better myself. It's about as likely as Xykon turning out to be Elan's long lost second cousin.
    No, no, there's more evidence against Elan and Xykon being related. In Start of Darkness, Xykon had black hair when he was young. Elan's blond.

    But otherwise yes.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I couldn't put it better myself. It's about as likely as Xykon turning out to be Elan's long lost second cousin.
    Well, it's a little more likely then that, mostly because Belkar could actually know the name Serini, but has conveniently been out of the way both times her name was mentioned. I'll admit it's far-fetched, I just like the idea of one of the OotS being related to one of the Scribblers.
    @dmc91356: I think he said that in SoD about Xykon, not about Belkar. For Belkar, I believe that he just said his backstory was short to reflect different D&D characters having different length backstories. My copies of both books are on loan to a friend right now, so I can't check either, unfortunately. I'm not really asking for an explanation as to why he's a psycho, though, so this bit of backstory could still exist.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhyrexianShovel View Post
    Well, it's a little more likely then that
    I agree, in the sense that you're more likely to win the Powerball if you buy two tickets instead of one.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Maybe Belkar is actually Redcloak's niece.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I agree, in the sense that you're more likely to win the Powerball if you buy two tickets instead of one.
    Alright, alright, I agreed it's far fetched, no need to keep hammering it in .

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    The Order of the Scribble's adventures were... I forget the exact number, around sixty-five years ago? Halflings are based on Tolkien's hobbits, so they live longer and age slower than humans; hobbits considered the age of adulthood to be 33. So, not even enough time for Serini to have grandchildren.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    I'm going with a quick flat "no" on this one. Serini could be related to Belkar; she could be an aunt or something, but her being his mother/grandmother is unlikely. Halfling lifespans simply don't quite match up with the time frame we are working with (Belkar is too young to be a son and too old to be a grandson), and we would probably know if someone were to mention his mother by name?

    I'm not entirely sure, but it seems highly unlikely that Serini is related to Belkar.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Maybe Belkar is actually Redcloak's niece.
    10/10, would theorize again
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhyrexianShovel View Post
    Belkar was absent during the background info, and thus probably only got a brief summary, later on. He may not have connected the name Serini to the gates, especially since he was absent for Girard's message, too.
    He was, however, present for the later discussion where "Serini" and "halfling rogue" were mentioned.

    So the question is: What difference will it make if Belkar is Serini's descendant, as opposed to if he's not? With no evidence supporting the theory, it'd go a long way towards establishing nominal plausibility if there's some reason it's more sensical/convenient for Belkar to be Serini's descendant than, say, for Hank to be Serini's descendant.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmc91356 View Post
    As for why there is no backstory on Belkar, my memory is that Rich commented (perhaps in one of the books - likely On the Origin of PC's) that providing an explanation of why Belkar was a psychopathic monster would detract from his usefulness as a character.
    Yes, the introduction of On the Origin of PCs. Basically said Belkar would be "ruined" by a backstory, that explaining the motivation behind his antics would make them more sad than funny.
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-09-18 at 09:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Let's go even more bananas. Serini is Belkar's daughter, born after Belkar somehow avoided his prophesied doom and his redemption, raised to be righteous and to value team work. She then was sent back in time by a powerful artifact on her first ever adventure.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Belkar is a rejuvenated and polymorphed version of Serini. With amnesia. If my understanding of how brain trauma works is correct, the amnesia will eventually be broken by a falling coconut.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Yes, because, as we all know, every Halfling is related to each other.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Yes, because, as we all know, every Halfling is related to each other.
    Does that make Belkar and Hank brothers?
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Yes, because, as we all know, every Halfling is related to each other.
    There is actually only one halfling. It’s an immortal who uses epic time-travel magic to hop between worlds and escape the XP-death of the universe by going back to the beginning. They use various disguises such as wigs and fake beards to pretend there are multiple different halflings.

    Belkar is his angry teenager phase.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Of course she is.

    We are all brothers and sisters.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I couldn't put it better myself. It's about as likely as Xykon turning out to be Elan's long lost second cousin.
    Considering his Father's side of the family... not at all improbable XD

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    There is actually only one halfling. It’s an immortal who uses epic time-travel magic to hop between worlds and escape the XP-death of the universe by going back to the beginning. They use various disguises such as wigs and fake beards to pretend there are multiple different halflings.

    Belkar is his angry teenager phase.
    I like this theory. It copes well with "Belkar will be no more".
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Speaking of Serini, has anyone else always assumed she’s dead? Halflings, at least in core D&D, don’t live much longer than humans, and Girad died of old age decades ago. Wouldn’t she have died already?

    Wait! I know! She’s actually the Dark One...and Redcloak’s niece...and Belkar’s mother. And only she knows V’s gender, the exact species of the MITD, and the best possible use for a doily. It all makes sense!
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by MossyMeow View Post
    Speaking of Serini, has anyone else always assumed she’s dead? Halflings, at least in core D&D, don’t live much longer than humans, and Girad died of old age decades ago. Wouldn’t she have died already?

    Wait! I know! She’s actually the Dark One...and Redcloak’s niece...and Belkar’s mother. And only she knows V’s gender, the exact species of the MITD, and the best possible use for a doily. It all makes sense!
    Some people have proposed that, yes, based mainly on that V gets no response from their attempt at comunicating which may be caused by her being deceased. However Dorukan was fine and a baseline human not even two years "ago" so she can definitely be alive and well. We don't know how long Girard has been dead either.

    I don't think she's dead because the Giant will need someone to exposit on the Snarl and the planet within and the last living Scribbler sounds like the best fit for that role.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-09-19 at 12:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Best reason for her being dead is that Xykon went for her personal journal, and came back with it. He doesn't leave people alive without a very good reason. Using Miko to scry on the defenses of Azure City, for example.

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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Best reason for her being dead is that Xykon went for her personal journal, and came back with it. He doesn't leave people alive without a very good reason. Using Miko to scry on the defenses of Azure City, for example.
    But Serini is/was an epic rogue, and if she put herself to it she might have had a fair chance of fleeing despite Xykon's efforts. It is something none of the other Scribblers tried to do.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Best reason for her being dead is that Xykon went for her personal journal, and came back with it. He doesn't leave people alive without a very good reason. Using Miko to scry on the defenses of Azure City, for example.
    That's assuming she was with her diary when he got it. The thing was sixty-odd years old already, I doubt she carries it on her person at all times.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-09-19 at 01:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That's assuming she was with her diary when he got it. The thing was sixty-odd years old already, I doubt she carries it on her person at all times.
    That assumes Xykon would know about, and then be able to find, a diary explicating the details of the Gates, which was written by (and presumably hidden by) an epic-level Rogue. Which sounds significantly more difficult than the already-difficult-finding that Rogue and plucking the diary off her corpse.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That's assuming she was with her diary when he got it. The thing was sixty-odd years old already, I doubt she carries it on her person at all times.
    True, but on the other hand she would certainly be careful about where she hid it and she would keep silence about its very existence and what is actually means. At the beginning of his search, Xykon did not know about the diary so the most straightforward explanation would be he somehow learned about it from her.

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    Last edited by Mike Havran; 2019-09-19 at 01:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by MossyMeow View Post
    Speaking of Serini, has anyone else always assumed she’s dead? Halflings, at least in core D&D, don’t live much longer than humans, and Girad died of old age decades ago. Wouldn’t she have died already?
    3.5 edition halflings live to be 105-200, compared to 72-110 for humans. Serini might be dead, but she probably didn't die of old age, unless she was already pretty old when the gates were made (which she showed no sign of, but it can be hard to tell from crayon drawings).
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That assumes Xykon would know about, and then be able to find, a diary explicating the details of the Gates, which was written by (and presumably hidden by) an epic-level Rogue. Which sounds significantly more difficult than the already-difficult-finding that Rogue and plucking the diary off her corpse.
    That "presumably" is doing a lot of work here. The simple fact that she recorded the coordinates in a diary means that she wasn't careful about that info. She should have burned it once they realized what they were dealing with. If you want to assume that diary was in magically sealed vault with two hundreds locks cast inside a twenty meter cube of steel, that's your prerogative but it may simply have been forgotten in a house she lived in forty years ago that Xykon found while trying to find her current whereabouts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Havran View Post
    True, but on the other hand she would certainly be careful about where she hid it and she would keep silence about its very existence and what is actually means. At the beginning of his search, Xykon did not know about the diary so the most straightforward explanation would be he somehow learned about it from her.
    If he had been able to extract information from her he would not have had to decode the coordinates, nor would he have needed the diary in the first place.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMonk View Post
    3.5 edition halflings live to be 105-200, compared to 72-110 for humans. Serini might be dead, but she probably didn't die of old age, unless she was already pretty old when the gates were made (which she showed no sign of, but it can be hard to tell from crayon drawings).
    She circled hearts around her drawing of the gang's resident bad boy. I'm confortable assuming she was young by halfling standards.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-09-19 at 01:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Could Belkar be descended from Serini?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That "presumably" is doing a lot of work here. The simple fact that she recorded the coordinates in a diary means that she wasn't careful about that info.
    That completely depends on how she handled the diary. If it never left her person and she had a plan for the chain of custody (both who would have it and why they would have it as well as how they could potentially use it), then not at all. If she just tossed it in the drawer of the inn she was the day she finished it, then absolutely.

    And while that's a spectrum and not a dichotomy, I'm inclined to believe the truth was significantly closer to the former than the latter.
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