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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I've been a fan of the series since it's inception. I tried playing Fl4k, but realized that I couldn't be both invisible and have a Skag until some ridiculous high level. Deleted him. Played Moze, was fine, until I got to the maliwan guys. They're overpowered, and the game seems to favor them over the player a disgusting amount. It feels like every time I go up against them, I'm playing "Where Angels Fear To Tread" at level 20 instead of 26. When I deleted her, and got to the unskipable beginning cutscenes for the third time, I wanted to vomit.

    Like the title card says, convince me I didn't waste sixty dollars.
    "I'M just a guy with a boomerang... I didn't ask for all this flying... and MAGIC!!!" -Sokka

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    the biggest nerd ever who transforms into BEAR is of course alluring.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    The Maliwan guys are a pain at first, but its only their intro that has a little bit of bumpy power scaling. Once you progress further into the planet, you get some more power and generally have an easier time. They also have some interesting weaknesses to exploit. For example, the heavies almost all die if you shoot the big power orb on their shoulder a bunch, and damage their allies when they do so.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Disclaimer: I don't have BL3 until it comes out on PC. :p But... This is a looter shooter. That means you have to grind. And grind. And grind. And then try again the things you were previously not strong enough to beat.

    Also, why are you deleting your characters? Simply switch to a new one, and let the old ones just be there. Prevents later regrets, if you get a yearning to try that one character again, but now have to start all over again.
    Last edited by thirsting; 2019-09-19 at 02:26 AM.
    Got bitten by a human once. Ever since, been turning into one during daytime. It's exhausting.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    As far as I know Fl4k can swap between all three of his pets from first level. It's only the higher level augments in a given tree that make the upgraded versions better which are locked behind a given tree's progression.

    As far as Maliwan troops...use Shock damage and they become chumps. Remember that cycling elemental damage is a big part of these games; Shock for shields (blue health), Fire for flesh (red health), and Corrosive for armor (yellow health). Radiation and Cryo seem equally good on almost everything. Hitting critical points also helps. A lot of the Maliwan troops have power packs or some such on their back that acts as extra crit points.

    I've been playing Amara, who is insane. My friends have been playing Fl4k and Moze, and they are both also insanely good. The former has skills so good in his trees you can basically pick skills at random and still come out on top, and the latter has three distinct and easy to see build types (guns, explosions, or mech-focused) that are all solid, especially pre-50. Zane seems equally nuts.

    You basically ****ed yourself by deleting the characters you'd made, but that's not exactly the game's fault.

    For my part I've been quite enjoying it. Amara is like playing a Super Saiyan with the melee build (mostly green splash of red and blue trees). I'm playing on True Vault Hunter (playthrough 2) with Mayhem III active (150% more enemy health/shields, among other things) and still having a blast punching dudes into bloodly splatters on the wall, and I've been stuck with the same green rarity class mod since level 34.

    My friend playing Moze (the grenade chuckin' build) has been doing great and having fun too. That's the weaker build for Moze mind you, before you think you need hyper optimization to do endgame content. The Fl4k player got off earlier than we did, so I dunno how he does, but I'd imagine pretty solidly.

    The balancing both between classes and inside of each class is VASTLY improved over every single other entry in the series. The guns are fun, the loot actually feels meaningful. Enemy types are far more varied than any previous game, as are locales. It's the best Borderlands has ever been, and I actually went in expecting to hate the game like I did 2 (I didn't even play the Pre-Sequel).

    I wouldn't have even bought it if I didn't have to buy and play it for work, so it had to really work past my initial negative bias. That's the best endorsement I can give.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2019-09-19 at 02:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I was angry when I made this thread, I already had a bad day. I'll probably hop back to the game eventually, I love borderlands too much. Ah, what rejection, exes, writing stress, and lack of sleep can do to a man. Thank you all for inspiring me to pick the controller back up.
    "I'M just a guy with a boomerang... I didn't ask for all this flying... and MAGIC!!!" -Sokka

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuff View Post
    the biggest nerd ever who transforms into BEAR is of course alluring.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticbear View Post
    I was angry when I made this thread, I already had a bad day. I'll probably hop back to the game eventually, I love borderlands too much. Ah, what rejection, exes, writing stress, and lack of sleep can do to a man. Thank you all for inspiring me to pick the controller back up.
    With all that going on, it sounds like you were pretty restrained, all things considered.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I voted extremely no, but my reasons aren't so extreme, nor is my dislike for the game extreme. It's just because I'm not into these sorts of games.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I'm of two minds on Borderlands 3.

    If you're looking at it purely from a gameplay point of view, Borderlands has never been so good. Guns are varied, with hundreds of unique effects on top of a robust framework of different manufacturers. Movement is satisfying, platforming is forgiving, and maps have an incredible amount of verticality and complexity that BL2 didn't have. Just as before, there's a great variety in character classes, and each class even has several super-obvious builds you can take it down. Gameplay wise, it's great.

    My complaints are almost entirely with the story, which is... well, it's pretty piss-poor. This is the third time I've tried to encapsulate my feelings about the story, and at this point I've given up on making a coherent three-thought essay and have instead decided to vomit out my thoughts for later reassembly.

    Spoiler: Main Quest Spoilers
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    Let's start off by saying that this is not your story in Borderlands 3. In previous iterations, nearly everything that happens is a direct result of the Vault Hunters' actions. The first crew were promised treasure and opened a Vault to find the treasure. The second crew went up against Handsome Jack to get revenge on him for trying to kill them. These are simple and easy motivations, but the important thing is that it's the vault hunters doing it, the vault hunters figuring out what to do and how to go about it. It's wish fulfillment, power fantasy, plain and simple.

    That's not true in Borderlands 3. No, Borderlands 3 is the story of the sirens. It's the sirens making decisions, the sirens influencing the plot, the sirens who really make a difference. You're there, certainly, but mostly in the role of gofer and glorified chauffeur. You make it possible for the sirens to go from plot section to plot section, at which point you the player character quietly fade into the background so the Sirens can take center stage. And when I say fade into the background, I mean it; There's probably at least fifteen minutes' worth of cutscene where the player character is physically present, but completely unable to do anything to alter the plot. After all, if you were to do anything--you know, like introduce the Calypso twins to your vast arsenal of interesting and unique weaponry as they saunter around in front of you--the story would be about twenty hours shorter than it currently is. No, you can do absolutely nothing while they kill and murder, even though you're in the same room as them and in theory there'd be nothing to stop you feeding them your shotgun, because if you do so, the Sirens couldn't show off their magic space wizard mumbo-jumbo skills.

    Speaking of mumbo jumbo, it's fortunate for the writers that they have a cast of magic tattooed space wizards to pull on, because it means the writers can ass-pull and ex-machina everything without having to worry about little things like consistency or explanations.
    • Maya can predict who will become a siren, and adopt them as her new protege! How? Doesn't matter! Space wizards!
    • Troy can leech sirens, we find out, and not just his sister. How? Why? That's not important! Stare at a Thanos'd Maya! Feel sad! Get attached to the Spunky Rebel Teen whose only character traits are that she's spunky and a rebel!
    • And now Troy has Maya's powers! Which, naturally, include: twenty-foot vertical leaps, pumping people full of Eridium so they can turn into anointed, and sucking in enough eridium to phaselock the friggin' moon and drag it back to the planet. Oh, and phaselock can now apparently be used to move objects, or something? Isn't it great that we never have to explain any of this ever?
    • Whatever, because after we get to open the Eden-6 Vault, Tannis gets phaseblast-kidnapped by Tyreen! You know, the siren who's out of sight and possibly on an entirely different planet! Who can now just kidnap someone by precisely scooping them up with stolen siren powers that we've never seen used this way! This power will never be used again after this point, despite how simple it would make it for the Calypso twins to wipe out everyone on Sanctuary III! Plot! Go follow it!
    • And now Tannis is a siren! How? Don't care! Siren! Angel or something or other, yada yada, powers don't need explaining, SPACE WIZARDS!
    • Tannis's siren powers let her control any technology, up to and including her ability to kill-off-for-real vault monsters and hack into ancient eridian Destroyer-containing technology. But, whoops, she can't actually take on these turrets. Better go and get the macguffin she needs to power up and let her take on the turrets for real! You don't need to know why she can't just hack these now! Fetch, vault hunter!
    • With all these powers, we're able to get to Troy, shut off his feed of Eridium, and have a big, annoying boss battle with far too many immunity phases! Yay! At which point, both Tyreen and Troy die! And Ava gets Maya's powers! Yay! And Lilith says that Maya must have seen this coming, and planned for it, and intended to die so that Ava could inherit Maya's siren powers! Don't ask how either of those things work, because it's not answered!
    • Except Tyreen uses her magic space wizard powers to yank down the archway onto the three main characters! You know, it's amazing how those power absorption powers totally allow her to crumble rock for free! Plot! Go follow it!
    • Ava uses her--that is to say, maya's--powers to project a shield to cover herself, Tannis, and Lilith! You know, the massive barrier shield that Maya is famous for and has always been able to use, and Ava has seen her use multiple times and therefore perfectly understands how to use in the half second she has.
    • By this point, both my brother and I were exhausted of this bullcrap, so having the game throw another four hours' worth of story mission was... not the best. Either way, we go through Nekrotafeyo, fighting cultists and anointed--you remember, those things that were specifically Troy's ability, and which took practice to get right if audio logs are to be believed--until we get to the final machine. At which point Tyreen ex-machinas herself in, ex-machina crushes a vault key, and teleports to the vault monster, all in a cutscene during which the player is locked in place and capable of doing nothing, for some reason.


    There's just so many points where the game blatantly cheats, either by introducing new powers as the plot demands or by forcing the player into an unbreakable fugue of Cutscene Incompetence, and it really brings the story down. Pair that with the generally low tie from the character to the villains, and it just feels like a subpar story.

    Compare that to the story of Borderlands 2. I recognize that Handsome Jack is a tough act to follow, but still. He genuinely feels like a clever, charismatic opponent who thinks ahead and hates you specifically. When he blows up Bloodwing's head, it's because he planned ahead and planted a bomb on Bloodwing's collar, not because he spontaneously developed a siren power in head-blow-uppery. He doesn't even show up in person until after you kill his daughter, at which point you have approximately three seconds of cutscene between Dead Roland>Jack>Lilith in a collar, so you avoid the feeling of being forced to watch for five minutes as Ava teen-protagonists her way into killing Maya. And then, after you kill Angel, you go directly to working on how to get to Jack, culimating in a climactic fight between the Vault Hunters and the douchebag who tried to kill them in the intro.

    When I played Borderlands 2, I never felt like the game was cheating, or trying to eke out empathy, or playing for time, or throwing in a fourth, unneeded act after the climax; I felt all four of those applied to Borderlands 3, and it sucks, because it's a blemish on an otherwise excellent game.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Eh. Borderlands' story has always been trash, and 3 is no exception. Just do what I do and tab out during cutscenes.

    I will say to be fair, the thing with Tannis was actually predicted by fans not long after Borderlands 2 came out the first time, so it's not that huge an asspull. There's probably some deep lore somewhere to explain it; Borderlands has a deceptively complex setting for a series with such trash plots and meme-y humor.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I simply will not, cause it's not worth it. 0 new ideas. Pumping cash from an old franchise.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Eh. Borderlands' story has always been trash, and 3 is no exception. Just do what I do and tab out during cutscenes.

    I will say to be fair, the thing with Tannis was actually predicted by fans not long after Borderlands 2 came out the first time, so it's not that huge an asspull. There's probably some deep lore somewhere to explain it; Borderlands has a deceptively complex setting for a series with such trash plots and meme-y humor.
    Speaking only for earlier entries, as I've not seen the new one yet.

    The stories are trash, but the background lore regarding the mega-corporations, their actions and neglect in shaping society and the general absurdist mockery of certain unnamed utopian philosophies is rather good.

    The characters and the plot just seem to be there because there needs to be something to contextualize the gameplay.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Did Borderlands grow a plot when I wasn't looking?

    It's Diablo with guns, zany and occasionally lolrandom humor, super cartoonish characters, and the BBEG of whatever game you're playing occasionally calls you up on your cell phone to threaten/mock/complain at you. It's always been super linear as you ride the shoot-and-loot train from zone to zone, and at least as far back as Game #2 there have been uninterruptible cutscenes where the villain does evil stuff and your amazing arsenal of weaponry is helpless to stop them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Eh. Borderlands' story has always been trash, and 3 is no exception. Just do what I do and tab out during cutscenes.

    I will say to be fair, the thing with Tannis was actually predicted by fans not long after Borderlands 2 came out the first time, so it's not that huge an asspull. There's probably some deep lore somewhere to explain it; Borderlands has a deceptively complex setting for a series with such trash plots and meme-y humor.
    "Borderlands' story has always been trash" does not invalidate "and this one is even more trash than normal," especially when the even-more-trash-than-normal story detracts from the endless cycle of acquisition and power fantasy that makes up the main gameplay loop.

    Honestly, Tannis's thing doesn't bother me all that much. Ava's does.
    Spoiler: Do you feel a trace of salt in the air
    Show
    Here's the thing. You're probably looking at this and groaning, "oh, boy, not another person who dislikes Ava." And I'm saying back, "if there are that many people who dislike her, there's probably a reason for that."

    When we see her first, Ava is an impulsive brat, full of bravado and short on brains, with a major case of hero-worship for Lilith. She's listened to Maya's stories of vault hunters and Lilith and built up this incredible image in her mind of "that's gonna be me." So, when we open the first vault, she decides that staying on the ship is for clowns, and her presence gets Maya killed. Instead of reflecting on her actions and the consequences thereof, she goes to the funeral and berates Lilith for not doing anything. Ava insists that Lilith is supposed to be the Firehawk, and vault hunters don't run from danger, and she's supposed to "run towards the fire!"

    This could be alright if this were setting up Ava for character growth. It'd still be fantastically annoying to sit through a five minute cutscene where the vault hunters stare at their navels while Maya gets killed, but I'd get over it eventually. But no, not only does Ava not realize anything, but her immaturity is shown to be actually correct. When the vault hunters go to tackle Troy and Tyreen, who leads the assault? Ava, who up to this point hasn't displayed the slightest bit of competence. Who saves the trio of sirens when Tyreen ex-machinas herself back to life? Ava. Whose words inspire Lilith to sacrifice herself? Friggin' Ava. Who does Lilith give the ship to when she sacrifices herself--Elly, who built the ship? Tannis, who's been part of this since the beginning? No, it's Ava. Who, in the end credits, receives most of the screen time and is effectively implied to be the new leader of the vault hunters? Motherfriggin' Ava.

    And the worse part is, basically none of this was necessary. Nothing that Ava does couldn't have been better by an established member of canon. Hell, Maya herself could have easily filled the role of somebody who reinspires Lilith and helps her redefine herself. But no, some hack of a writer thought we needed some prepubescent nuisance to whine at the player character, experience no character growth, and be somehow declared the Saviour of All Mankind at the end of things.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I can convince you of anything you want. Doesn't mean I'll be honest.

    At the very least when artists start pumping out parody comics and animation shorts you'll at least get the jokes.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    So now I'm wondering what, exactly, we should be considering 'normal/average' for Borderlands.

    You had Borderlands 1, which was original but also super bland compared to its successor, very linear and with an extremely forgettable antagonist.

    Then came Borderlands 2, the gold standard of the franchise. Better gameplay, more guns, and the best villain the franchise has ever seen.

    After that, you get Joker 2019The Pre-Sequel, an entirely unnecessary focus on how a wonderfully entertaining psychopath was originally a mild-mannered accountant who goes batpoop evil because reasons, with an obviously pre-determined and anticlimatic ending. Also had an antagonist somehow worse than Steele.

    Tales From The Borderlands was a tie-in, but a well-received one for story.

    If 2 is our median being the best...it's basically impossible to top that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    "Borderlands' story has always been trash" does not invalidate "and this one is even more trash than normal," especially when the even-more-trash-than-normal story detracts from the endless cycle of acquisition and power fantasy that makes up the main gameplay loop.

    Honestly, Tannis's thing doesn't bother me all that much. Ava's does.
    Spoiler: Do you feel a trace of salt in the air
    Show
    Here's the thing. You're probably looking at this and groaning, "oh, boy, not another person who dislikes Ava." And I'm saying back, "if there are that many people who dislike her, there's probably a reason for that."

    When we see her first, Ava is an impulsive brat, full of bravado and short on brains, with a major case of hero-worship for Lilith. She's listened to Maya's stories of vault hunters and Lilith and built up this incredible image in her mind of "that's gonna be me." So, when we open the first vault, she decides that staying on the ship is for clowns, and her presence gets Maya killed. Instead of reflecting on her actions and the consequences thereof, she goes to the funeral and berates Lilith for not doing anything. Ava insists that Lilith is supposed to be the Firehawk, and vault hunters don't run from danger, and she's supposed to "run towards the fire!"

    This could be alright if this were setting up Ava for character growth. It'd still be fantastically annoying to sit through a five minute cutscene where the vault hunters stare at their navels while Maya gets killed, but I'd get over it eventually. But no, not only does Ava not realize anything, but her immaturity is shown to be actually correct. When the vault hunters go to tackle Troy and Tyreen, who leads the assault? Ava, who up to this point hasn't displayed the slightest bit of competence. Who saves the trio of sirens when Tyreen ex-machinas herself back to life? Ava. Whose words inspire Lilith to sacrifice herself? Friggin' Ava. Who does Lilith give the ship to when she sacrifices herself--Elly, who built the ship? Tannis, who's been part of this since the beginning? No, it's Ava. Who, in the end credits, receives most of the screen time and is effectively implied to be the new leader of the vault hunters? Motherfriggin' Ava.

    And the worse part is, basically none of this was necessary. Nothing that Ava does couldn't have been better by an established member of canon. Hell, Maya herself could have easily filled the role of somebody who reinspires Lilith and helps her redefine herself. But no, some hack of a writer thought we needed some prepubescent nuisance to whine at the player character, experience no character growth, and be somehow declared the Saviour of All Mankind at the end of things.
    Sure, it sucked.

    So?

    Just delete all the cutscenes from the game folder and move on.

    @Glyphstone: The issue with 2 is that its gameplay was lackluster. Manufacturers lost their identity, the playable characters were almost universally lame, and its endgame was excruciating.

    3 sidesteps all of these issues.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Sure, it sucked.

    So?

    Just delete all the cutscenes from the game folder and move on.

    @Glyphstone: The issue with 2 is that its gameplay was lackluster. Manufacturers lost their identity, the playable characters were almost universally lame, and its endgame was excruciating.

    3 sidesteps all of these issues.
    I would agree on all points, though 2 still seems to carry the top of people's lists on its story alone. 3's gameplay is by leaps and bounds an improvement over 2, and substantially over 1 as well, but how far down the list does its plot drag it to counterbalance that?
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-10-05 at 06:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Sure, it sucked.

    So?

    Just delete all the cutscenes from the game folder and move on.

    @Glyphstone: The issue with 2 is that its gameplay was lackluster. Manufacturers lost their identity, the playable characters were almost universally lame, and its endgame was excruciating.

    3 sidesteps all of these issues.
    You clearly never played as Krieg. Or Gaige. Or Axton. Or Maya.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    What about Axton was fun? He was Roland, but with a slightly more functional turret. I played Sal and will cheerfully admit his gameplay was super boring, but Zero was somehow worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I would agree on all points, though 2 still seems to carry the top of people's lists on its story alone. 3's gameplay is by leaps and bounds an improvement over 2, and substantially over 1 as well, but how far down the list does its plot drag it to counterbalance that?
    It depends on how much you play the game. With a looter-shooter like Borderlands the importance of the plot declines over time, particularly as you move into the endgame or create multiple characters, to the point of simply becoming background noise. So if you're only going to play through the game once and don't intend to bother with the endgame, then yeah, the general weakness of the plot is a problem. But if you get into the post-plot stage of the game, the massively superior gameplay shines through immensely.

    Also, I don't think it's entirely fair to 3 to say that it comes badly to 2 in the story department. 2 managed to hit the all right notes for Borderlands' depraved insanity about as well as could be imagined, something that other games didn't accomplish. 3's story is comparatively lackluster, but mostly it's fine. The biggest story problem is that, when it came to dealing with the problem of the player being one of four very different characters the wrote the story around the PC in a particularly blatant way. That's a significant issue, but it was certainly present in 2 and the Pre-Sequel as well.
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    You clearly never played as Krieg. Or Gaige. Or Axton. Or Maya.
    Krieg is great, until you hit a brick wall in playthrough 2 and his melee build ceases to function. Gaige is braindead easy and unengaging to play by design. Maya is one note. Axton is Roland but worse since he brings far less to the table in terms of support.

    That's really the thing with 2 as compared to 1 and 3; every build for every character boils down to "shoot gun", because everything else is trash. 1 and 3 have a greater diversity of builds both between and within characters, since melee and action skill builds are functional.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2019-10-05 at 07:28 PM.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Not to mention Slag Or Go Home. I haven't heard anything about endgame BL3 though, did they solve the health bloat or has Radiation become the New Slag?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not to mention Slag Or Go Home. I haven't heard anything about endgame BL3 though, did they solve the health bloat or has Radiation become the New Slag?
    I haven't had any issues before torquing the game up to Mayhem 3 on the second playthrough; there's a pretty stark difference between Mayhems 1, 2, and 3, and 3 clearly requires some kind of endgame level gear for you to start chewing through it.

    Radiation definitely is not a Slag equivalent though; it's main schtick is that people explode WHEN THEY DIE, it doesn't increase how much damage they take from other sources. i guess it's also pretty rare or an enemy to resist it, which may make it an element of choice, but it also has little (no? I dunno if Moze of Fl4k have any Rad support) skill support.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Huh, I thought I read somewhere that Radded enemies took extra damage, the way Corrosive worked in BL1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Double checking, it also creates a very small AoE DoT around the primary target, so it makes crowd control easier.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Krieg is great, until you hit a brick wall in playthrough 2 and his melee build ceases to function. Gaige is braindead easy and unengaging to play by design. Maya is one note. Axton is Roland but worse since he brings far less to the table in terms of support.

    That's really the thing with 2 as compared to 1 and 3; every build for every character boils down to "shoot gun", because everything else is trash. 1 and 3 have a greater diversity of builds both between and within characters, since melee and action skill builds are functional.
    I found that Krieg's melee build was functional all the way into the end-game and UVHM; it was only once you hit the OP levels and melee damage no longer scaled with level that Release The Beast and Bloodsplosion started to fall off. Axton was fun, so long as you weren't relying on his turret to actually do more than slag enemies; Fastball and Tediore-chucking were both great fun.

    Not gonna argue about Gaige, though. Nothing screams fun like shamfleeting your way to victory, or just shooting the ground repeatedly until enemies died.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not to mention Slag Or Go Home. I haven't heard anything about endgame BL3 though, did they solve the health bloat or has Radiation become the New Slag?
    No, I haven't noticed issues with that. And I haven't noticed any issues with health bloat, even into the Mayhem levels.

    With that said, I will note that Mayhem can be frustrating to deal with, especially Mayhem III. The issue isn't the health bloat, but that there are so many modifiers that are just "you do less damage," and that you can draw multiple modifiers that stack or cancel each other out. For instance, I wish that [+x% damage with shotguns/smgs/pistols and -x% damage with snipers/assault rifles] was incompatible with [-x% damage with shotguns/smgs/pistols and +x% damage with snipers/assault rifles] or [-50% gun damage].

    I've hit the point in Mayhem III where if the map modifiers are crap, I'd rather save and reload until I get ones that are fun instead of beating my head against the wall of not being able to do more than tickle enemies. Bullet reflection and universal damage nerfs are instant reload conditions, as I can't stand modifiers that punish players for doing the thing the video game is set up for you to do.

    I mean, this is a mode called Mayhem. You'd think that Gearbox would be able to come up with more creative modifiers than "some guns are worse than others." You know, stuff like "enemies turn into timed nukes when they die," or "big head mode," or "lootsplosion mode." Maybe there's a modifier called "Heavy Weapons Guy" that just gives enemies all vladof guns, and so on. Be creative, have some fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Radiation definitely is not a Slag equivalent though; it's main schtick is that people explode WHEN THEY DIE, it doesn't increase how much damage they take from other sources. i guess it's also pretty rare or an enemy to resist it, which may make it an element of choice, but it also has little (no? I dunno if Moze of Fl4k have any Rad support) skill support.
    In many ways, radiation is basically normal damage, but better. It's the same as normal damage when dealing with flesh, 50% more effective when dealing with shields, and the only real issue is that you lose damage when facing armored enemies. Pair that with the DoT and the explosion radius when enemies die, and it's quite potent as a generalist elemental choice.
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    In many ways, radiation is basically normal damage, but better. It's the same as normal damage when dealing with flesh, 50% more effective when dealing with shields, and the only real issue is that you lose damage when facing armored enemies. Pair that with the DoT and the explosion radius when enemies die, and it's quite potent as a generalist elemental choice.
    Yeah radiation is a pretty handy element for most situations, one thing it isn't advisable for though is close range or melee builds since its aoe and explosion will catch you in it as well. Well unless you're amara and you want to get dotted up to get your super speed buff stacking like crazy

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Having only played BL 2 and the Pre-Sequel as well as dabbled in BL 1, I just feel the game is so much WORSE in single player. You can see all the mechanics that are extremely fun with friends or online that are just utter bull in a solo game.

    I already dislike random loot distribution (I hated it when Diablo 3 did it, and I don't like it with the BL series) but I mostly played the series for the story. Because my friends have a few of the figurines and they love claptrap and whatnot. But the humor is forced, predictable, not crass enough to really hit with me (yea, butt stallion, hilarious, that is like a 3rd grader trying to be funny). And to tell an engaging story, the tone shifts too much from hyper serious (like Jack murdering his grandma, or Roland being killed) to over-the-top silly-but-not-funny.

    I feel this would be a nice game to pick up from the bargain bin with a friend to play for a few hours to distract yourself from the inane gameplay and stupid jokes. But as a single player game it just tanks.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    Having only played BL 2 and the Pre-Sequel as well as dabbled in BL 1, I just feel the game is so much WORSE in single player. You can see all the mechanics that are extremely fun with friends or online that are just utter bull in a solo game.
    Having played all three games almost exclusively single player, I'd have to disagree to an extent. The first game was the one where playing single player worked best, you should maybe have done more than dabble in that one. BL2 made the enemies so ridiculously bullet spongey that it pretty much required you to use slag weapons to increase the damage you were doing to tolerable levels, and that meant either having to run a Gunzerker with one slag and one regular weapon, or constantly switching between weapons, which was just irritating.

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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Having played all three games almost exclusively single player, I'd have to disagree to an extent. The first game was the one where playing single player worked best, you should maybe have done more than dabble in that one. BL2 made the enemies so ridiculously bullet spongey that it pretty much required you to use slag weapons to increase the damage you were doing to tolerable levels, and that meant either having to run a Gunzerker with one slag and one regular weapon, or constantly switching between weapons, which was just irritating.
    My experience is certainly that the game is more fun with more people (friends, specifically), but I don't know if that's anything to do with Borderlands specifically so much as the fact that group activities are almost always just inherently more fun.
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