The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    I've played through TVHM on Moze, and I've dabbled with Fl4k and Zane...and I'm just not having fun. It isn't a matter of not liking the mechanics or gun play, (which I feel are far superior to BL2), I just cannot bring myself to slam my head against the story anymore, the only characters I actually enjoy (Balex and Wainwright) are too deep into the story to make the slog of Ava, Katagawa, and the Calypsos worth it.

    On top of the teeth-gritting story, Gearbox just made the game lame to play more than once. Bank and Stash being fused meant I ran out of room almost immediately, because the original drop rates for Legendaries was so high that I stopped using anything lesser just as soon, and no reason to grind for drops.
    Nerfs and balancing is too little too late, reducing drop rates didn't matter when you had everything already, making Maliwan and Atlas guns stronger doesn't make them enjoyable to use.
    As stated before, Mayhem isn't "chaotic" it's just an extra wall to slam your head against.

    I will say, I'm willing to wait and see where it goes: BL2 had fantastic DLC and with the gameplay improvements I have a good feeling that they will be fantastic as well.

    However, in the meantime I'm hopping back into Destiny, because right now, you couldn't pay me to play BL3
    Once you go blue, nothing else will do. Once you go Quarian...someone will die.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by boj0 View Post
    Bank and Stash being fused meant I ran out of room almost immediately, because the original drop rates for Legendaries was so high that I stopped using anything lesser just as soon, and no reason to grind for drops.
    Nerfs and balancing is too little too late, reducing drop rates didn't matter when you had everything already
    This part seems really easy to fix, at least for new characters... simply don't transfer items between characters. With items being level locked anyway you've probably got a lot of new character time between upgrading to various saved items. It's not like self imposed limits on playing a game to make them more entertaining on later playthroughs is uncommon.



    While I can't speak to 3 specifically, the previous games were a lot more fun with other players even if you didn't know the other players. The games are designed around a team. Classes have weaknesses that really stand out in some cases but that becomes much less of an issue with other players. The second-wind/recovery thing works much better with other players. The increased spawns of mooks as well as all the upgraded versions is much higher with more players. The game just flows a lot better with more players.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Are you saying I should just throw away the lv50 gear I have in my bank just because my alts can't use it? That's the problem I have, I can either save gear for one character, or save about 10 pieces of gear for all my characters. Since it's all one storage space, its not even a matter of twinking gear, its that my new characters don't get a bank unless I drop a ton of legendaries
    Once you go blue, nothing else will do. Once you go Quarian...someone will die.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by boj0 View Post
    Are you saying I should just throw away the lv50 gear I have in my bank just because my alts can't use it? That's the problem I have, I can either save gear for one character, or save about 10 pieces of gear for all my characters. Since it's all one storage space, its not even a matter of twinking gear, its that my new characters don't get a bank unless I drop a ton of legendaries
    As much as its against instinct, theres no real value in keeping the legendaries if your other characters are never actually going to reach the level needed to use them.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    With the way that Gearbox has been rolling out hotfixes, I find it worth holding on to other legendaries in case something I use gets nerfed, or something in my bank gets buffed. Its just such a strange design decision that the game that espouses having over a billion guns, lets you hold onto an infinitesimally small percentage of them; Destiny 2 lets you have max 3 characters and has a substantially smaller amount of gear, and yet your vault space is magnitudes larger by default.
    Once you go blue, nothing else will do. Once you go Quarian...someone will die.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Maybe it's just how I play these games, but I don't know if I have much of anything in my banks in any of the previous BL games. Even in Diablo 3 I don't think I had much of anything stored, I had some stuff there at least, but it was because they had whole sets of armor that were mostly all-or nothing sets.
    It just seems that if we've got to the point where one of the biggest complaints is "the banks are too small" is running peak first world problems.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    A maximum sized bank in Borderlands 3 holds 50 items. There's little reason to put anything other than level 50 legendaries in there unless you happen to encounter some really good lower-level item for leveling purposes. Considering that a not-insubstantial portion of the legendary items available in the game are actually rather awful or only useful for some fairly bizarre builds, ~40 legendaries ought to do you just fine, especially when you add in the potentially 8 legendaries your endgame character will have equipped for regular use (which won't be the same from one character to the next).

    Quote Originally Posted by boj0
    Its just such a strange design decision that the game that espouses having over a billion guns, lets you hold onto an infinitesimally small percentage of them
    The nature of Borderlands procedural gun generation determines that only a very small percentage of the guns you encounter will be anything other than junk suitable for sale as vendor trash. You're lucky to get a single good gun of each type at any one time, never mind having too many.
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Until you also throw in weapons with alternate elemental stats, or annointed varieties for different Vault Hunters.

    Yeah plenty of rolls are trash, and plenty are pretty good but build dependent; those are the things that I want more room for, stuff that I'm not using *now* but would be perfectly viable if I respec into a different tree.
    Once you go blue, nothing else will do. Once you go Quarian...someone will die.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    It just seems that if we've got to the point where one of the biggest complaints is "the banks are too small" is running peak first world problems.
    Diablo 3 gives you SEVERAL pages of bank slots. What I read about BL3, it is a single page that limits you heavily (since its account based and not per character.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    Diablo 3 gives you SEVERAL pages of bank slots. What I read about BL3, it is a single page that limits you heavily (since its account based and not per character.
    I think Grim Dawn gets this about right--you get several pages of storage for your character, and the same amount of space which is shared between all of them. That game has the concept of item sets, though, which I don't think BL3 does?

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    Diablo 3 gives you SEVERAL pages of bank slots. What I read about BL3, it is a single page that limits you heavily (since its account based and not per character.
    The Borderlands 3 Bank, when fully upgraded, holds 50 items. A fully upgraded character can also hold 40 items in their backpack plus the 8 items (4 guns, 1 grenade mod, 1 class mod, 1 shield, and 1 artifact) they actively wear. Since a character only wears 8 items at once, a build is 8 items (and practically, many builds will be less because they'll predominantly use only 1 or 2 guns). The overwhelming majority of builds are focused on a specific legendary class mod, of which there are 5 per character at present (FL4K gets 6). That means you could carry the items for all possible builds just in the character's backpack without using the bank at all (though this would mean you'd have to ignore the vendor trash, but if you had all those legendaries why wouldn't you?). The fully upgraded bank can hold 6 complete builds with space left over. That's plenty.

    I mean, look it's not like B3 doesn't have quality of life problems, for one, vending machines and fast travel points are found far too infrequently, leading to lots of discarded loot especially in the early game and an annoying amount of backtracking to reach certain hard to access areas, I just don't find the Bank to be a particularly big issue. It's certainly far, far less important than the underwhelming story and the random ridiculousness of Mayhem.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    The Borderlands 3 Bank, when fully upgraded, holds 50 items. A fully upgraded character can also hold 40 items in their backpack plus the 8 items (4 guns, 1 grenade mod, 1 class mod, 1 shield, and 1 artifact) they actively wear. Since a character only wears 8 items at once, a build is 8 items (and practically, many builds will be less because they'll predominantly use only 1 or 2 guns). The overwhelming majority of builds are focused on a specific legendary class mod, of which there are 5 per character at present (FL4K gets 6). That means you could carry the items for all possible builds just in the character's backpack without using the bank at all (though this would mean you'd have to ignore the vendor trash, but if you had all those legendaries why wouldn't you?). The fully upgraded bank can hold 6 complete builds with space left over. That's plenty.

    I mean, look it's not like B3 doesn't have quality of life problems, for one, vending machines and fast travel points are found far too infrequently, leading to lots of discarded loot especially in the early game and an annoying amount of backtracking to reach certain hard to access areas, I just don't find the Bank to be a particularly big issue. It's certainly far, far less important than the underwhelming story and the random ridiculousness of Mayhem.
    That might be true once you're at max level and have decided on Your BuildTM, but I find that most of the fun in Borderlands is in the playing around, experimenting, figuring out which guns do what. To do that, you need to have space in your backup to pick up new gear. And that doesn't even take into account the annoyance that comes with having a full backpack and having to decide which thing to drop so you can pick uyp this new bit of gear.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Personally I haven't had any issues with item capacity, I didn't even use the bank until I was running around at level 50 on mayhem mode and had enough legendaries that I couldn't try them all in a reasonable time frame.

    When levelling up I take the view that a bad piece of gear in borderlands is like a bad haircut in real life, you'll grow out of it soon. Almost everything will be tossed by the wayside within a few levels, so it's not worth saving anything below level 50 even if you plan on levelling multiple characters, they'll get plenty of gear to run through the game with on their own.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    That might be true once you're at max level and have decided on Your BuildTM, but I find that most of the fun in Borderlands is in the playing around, experimenting, figuring out which guns do what. To do that, you need to have space in your backup to pick up new gear. And that doesn't even take into account the annoyance that comes with having a full backpack and having to decide which thing to drop so you can pick uyp this new bit of gear.
    Backpack space is different from bank space. In my post I mentioned that the game has a problem with an insufficient number of vending machines, a problem that is particularly acute at low levels but remains in place well into the endgame since enemies can easily drop over a hundred items between vending points. Now 95% of all item drops will be garbage - they'll be under-leveled or have a crippling trait flaw (almost anything with negative weapon damage is worthless) or be a lousy manufacturer/type combination or will simply be a worse version of what you already have - and bypassing them simply means you're leaving money on the ground (which in the endgame becomes meaningless since there's nothing to buy).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent
    When levelling up I take the view that a bad piece of gear in borderlands is like a bad haircut in real life, you'll grow out of it soon. Almost everything will be tossed by the wayside within a few levels, so it's not worth saving anything below level 50 even if you plan on levelling multiple characters, they'll get plenty of gear to run through the game with on their own.
    I largely agree. There's only a handful of things that you'd want to save for another character that aren't going to be legendary 50s. It you get lucky and find a generalized gun that has a massive + weapon damage percentage that hits well above its weight class that might be worth keeping but otherwise there just isn't much.

    This is especially true given how the manufacture mail system works in B3. If you find a gun model that you like and use a lot that system will pretty much insure that you keep getting roughly level appropriate versions of it all the way up to level 50.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Convince Me Borderlands 3 Is Good

    Personally I think the bank space is too limited as well, mostly because there's going to be balance changes so builds will become obsolete or be given a new lease on life. That legendary that sucked last week might work pretty well the following week after some tweaks to talents or to the item itself. That being said its not going to be the biggest problem in the world because apparently BL3 is getting no new characters with DLC so the 4 we have is all were getting this time around.

    Other than that my only gripes for the game are story related. The writing just seems so erratic and over the place and it feels more like there's a cameo cast as opposed to a supporting cast like in the other games. That doesn't even get into my biggest gripe which is how again did Tyreen lose? I mean just look at her powerset, all she has to do is teleport in and touch you to win and if you're playing Amara she darn well should of done it.
    Last edited by Inarius; 2019-10-14 at 03:36 AM.

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