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    Default Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Look, I have thoroughly loved both PoE1 and 2, and I am now working on my 3rd DLC for 2 - Seeker, Slayer, Survivor. I didn't play the DLCs in any particular order, so I've finished Beast of Winter and Forgotten Sanctum already even though Forgotten Sanctum came out last. Loved them both - the story was fun, the new boards and dynamics were great, etc.

    But I've hit SSS like a brick wall and I'm having to force myself to keep playing. I may skip it all together (rare for a semi-completionist like me) so I can actually finish the game for the first time. I know, I know, I've taken a long time to play through it, but hey, Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War and Arkham Knight bumped PoE2 down the priority list for a little while.

    Anyhow, the other 2 DLC (and the rest of the game) were all about exploring new locales, fun fights, building a great story, etc.

    But SSS? It's... an arena. The same arena over and over again (with some differences in the setup for each fight). Lots of fights. Very little exploring. A lot of backtracking into old areas to find artifacts to bring back to the arena to unlock (surprise) new arena fights. I'm not deep enough into it to appreciate the story (I run on Normal difficulty for some challenge), but the exploration and story are higher priority than the fighting, so now SSS flips that around and I'm frankly underwhelmed.

    Look, the fights ARE fun and challenging, but I don't get to explore much. I don't get to see new vistas and new monsters, etc. It's just not compelling to me.

    I totally recognize that others will find it very compelling, which is totally cool, but I'm a little sad that I have to force myself to play such a great game and may just skip it so I can finally do whatever Eothas needs done to him and then maybe go over to Pathfinder: Kingmaker which has been waiting in the wings for a while.

    /rant
    Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2019-09-19 at 12:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    Look, I have thoroughly loved both PoE1 and 2, and I am now working on my 3rd DLC for 2 - Seeker, Slayer, Survivor. I didn't play the DLCs in any particular order, so I've finished Beast of Winter and Forgotten Sanctum already even though Forgotten Sanctum came out last. Loved them both - the story was fun, the new boards and dynamics were great, etc.

    But I've hit SSS like a brick wall and I'm having to force myself to keep playing. I may skip it all together (rare for a semi-completionist like me) so I can actually finish the game for the first time. I know, I know, I've taken a long time to play through it, but hey, Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War and Arkham Knight bumped PoE2 down the priority list for a little while.

    Anyhow, the other 2 DLC (and the rest of the game) were all about exploring new locales, fun fights, building a great story, etc.

    But SSS? It's... an arena. The same arena over and over again (with some differences in the setup for each fight). Lots of fights. Very little exploring. A lot of backtracking into old areas to find artifacts to bring back to the arena to unlock (surprise) new arena fights. I'm not deep enough into it to appreciate the story (I run on Normal difficulty for some challenge), but the exploration and story are higher priority than the fighting, so now SSS flips that around and I'm frankly underwhelmed.

    Look, the fights ARE fun and challenging, but I don't get to explore much. I don't get to see new vistas and new monsters, etc. It's just not compelling to me.

    I totally recognize that others will find it very compelling, which is totally cool, but I'm a little sad that I have to force myself to play such a great game and may just skip it so I can finally do whatever Eothas needs done to him and then maybe go over to Pathfinder: Kingmaker which has been waiting in the wings for a while.

    /rant
    I just finished for the first time myself. (I had one aborted playthrough at release (one of the backers) and then ended up waiting until 5.0 before havinga proper stab).

    Yeah, SSS was definitely the weakest of the DLC, as it was just fights, but eh, it was okay. I mean, wasn't too fussued, since I'd coughed up-front for the expansions at the kickstarter (like I did with the first one) and to be honest, I was more diappointed with the ship combat. (I tried. I tried so hard to like that, but the complete lack of meaningful maneouvre made it totally pointless. If they had just taken that distance and bearign they were using and just abstracted it to changing the quarant you were to the enemy ship, it would have been so much better!)

    You probably don't want to try tackling the mega-bosses though, since they are just really, really hard fights. I took on one, but decided I really couldn't be arsed to take the others (and like you, I'm normally a completionist to the hilt). I could probably do it with abuse of my ascendant cipher and Xoti and Vatik's Salvation of Time/Barring Death's Door spam, but I didn't feel I would get much out of it. After, like 163 hours, I'd about had enough, so I just went "frack it" last night and chopped through to the end.



    One thing I did find over the game, coming straight in after I first played Divinity Original Sin 1/2 was that I was really only controlling two or three characters out of the five (playing RTwP). Eder and Maia (the most frequent pother party members after me Xoti and usually Aloth) I more or less never touched - granted, like in the old infinity engine games. Which surprised me, since I have always though that I preferred RTwP to TBS and yet also been a big fan of "give all the noncasters not-spells too!), but I've come away from Pillars 2 going "hmm..."



    Like you, I've had Kingmaker sitting waiting for a while too! I am actually for once snowed under with new games to play, the mext big issue is going to be decision paralysis on what to play next!

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    OK, it's nice to know someone else is feeling the same way I do about SSS. I also backed both games with the full DLC, and this is the only DLC from both games I've been "Meh" about.

    Actually, I use Eder all the time! Dude is practically unkillable if you spec him right. I use Mule Kick on a regular basis to allow a different party member to escape engagement with an enemy. My current party - Xoti, Eder, Pallagina, and Aloth, all single class. My PC is a wood elf cipher (no subclass - I couldn't handle the penalties, though I admit the ascendant subclass seemed like the coolest - just didn't want to have all my focus drain out to 0 suddenly right when I was going to cast 1000 Cuts).

    The one issue I have is reliable healing. Xoti only has a couple of healing spells available at lvl 1 and 3 (plus prayer), and Pallagina has some great paladin healing abilities, but in longer fights, I run out of spells/abilities for healing pretty fast.

    But man, once you reach lvl 20, combat is fun. I usually have a stealthed Aloth sneak up and drop a meteor swarm on mobs followed rapidly by Web to immobilize them right there. Web is surprisingly effective even at high level - Grease was my go to spell in PoE1, but Web works great since proning in PoE2 doesn't drop them for as long. Everyone else stands back and pelts with bows (I hate guns, they have a terrible range) as well as Xoti with an arbalest o prone someone right off the bat. 1000 Cuts is awesome especially combined with Disintegration and since my cipher has the bow that shoots 3 ice arrows at a time and can also do AoE on a crit, she gets focus really quickly.

    Then Eder and Pallagina close for melee - Eder has the best 1H and Shield, Pall has the best 2H sword, and then we go to town.

    Good times, good times.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    OK, it's nice to know someone else is feeling the same way I do about SSS. I also backed both games with the full DLC, and this is the only DLC from both games I've been "Meh" about.

    Actually, I use Eder all the time! Dude is practically unkillable if you spec him right. I use Mule Kick on a regular basis to allow a different party member to escape engagement with an enemy. My current party - Xoti, Eder, Pallagina, and Aloth, all single class. My PC is a wood elf cipher (no subclass - I couldn't handle the penalties, though I admit the ascendant subclass seemed like the coolest - just didn't want to have all my focus drain out to 0 suddenly right when I was going to cast 1000 Cuts).

    The one issue I have is reliable healing. Xoti only has a couple of healing spells available at lvl 1 and 3 (plus prayer), and Pallagina has some great paladin healing abilities, but in longer fights, I run out of spells/abilities for healing pretty fast.

    But man, once you reach lvl 20, combat is fun. I usually have a stealthed Aloth sneak up and drop a meteor swarm on mobs followed rapidly by Web to immobilize them right there. Web is surprisingly effective even at high level - Grease was my go to spell in PoE1, but Web works great since proning in PoE2 doesn't drop them for as long. Everyone else stands back and pelts with bows (I hate guns, they have a terrible range) as well as Xoti with an arbalest o prone someone right off the bat. 1000 Cuts is awesome especially combined with Disintegration and since my cipher has the bow that shoots 3 ice arrows at a time and can also do AoE on a crit, she gets focus really quickly.

    Then Eder and Pallagina close for melee - Eder has the best 1H and Shield, Pall has the best 2H sword, and then we go to town.

    Good times, good times.
    SSS would ahve benefitted, I think, from being able to be accessed much earlier in the game (as if you are like me and tends to do EVERYTHING except the main quest first...) so that you could do a bit occasionally and go back to it and for those not as bothered, it wouldn't have been such a long slog of Just More Fights. But as you can't to it until after Magran's Teeth, I'd literally done everything else in the game except for the Megabosses and the final act before getting to it.

    On the other hand, in one of the fights (penultimate on, I think?) there was a dialogue interaction sequence that I found so personally hilarious because of what it allowed Watcher to do, it made it all worthwhile.)

    On the third hand, that survivor's test dialogue sequence that is designed to injure all your companions and likely you unless the Watcher specifically has some skills (and Watcher's was all into Mechanics) and the first slayer fight where it polymorphs you can both go and copulate with themselves.



    I did my first aborted playthough with the same crew (albeit is multiclassed everyone except me and Aloth), but I found I could just NOT get along with Pallengina (I virtually never used her in the first one, my party there was Eder, Aloth, Durnance, Sagani and GW, because ciphers are TOO MUCH FUN). It's unusual for a companion to annoy me like that (I had no problems with anyone in the entire rest of the cast of both games - okay, Durance did a bit, but hs payoff is SO GOOD it retroactively made it all better. So Maia took her spot on the proper run and Pallengina only got to trot out infrequently.



    The penalties for ascendant aren't too bad, since it mostly means you just have to shoot people a bit first. I mostly used the Red Hand for my main (though Fire in the Hole and the Hand Mortar are also very good and you can get both quite early) and hit ascendant and spammed Mind Blades, Amplified Wave or Disintegrate and 1000 Cuts. I specifcially made sure to try and keep mt action speed as high as possible (maximising casting turnover) and stuff that increased intelligence or beneficial condition duration so that ascendant lasted longer. (It's not quite as good in TBS, since you have a flat cap on how many spells you can cast per round). the thing I found that sneaking was great for getting close to the enemy, but as the first shot out of combat didn't give you focus that I didbn't really want to start it until Watcher was in Red Hand range so I could immeditely start clocking it up. (It usually took about two rounds of fire to max out at 20th). Problem with the Red Hand was that I was incentivisied to not rest ever, since doing so knocked my damage back by 20% until I'd killed stuff with it again. (Pity the poor pirates at the endgame when it auto-rested me a couple of times in SSS...) But two shot without reloading is STUPID good and why I didn't really touch the short-range weapons after I started using it. (I DID keep a superb arquebus around for when I DID need to shoot stuff out of combat, like very painstakingly shooting all the objects before the final fight of Forgotten Sanctum...!)

    The Watcher MASSIVELY out-damaged and out-killed everyone else (actually, just like in the first game!)



    If you have Xoti as preist, you have (should, or are only one retrain away from) Salvation of Time. Combine that with Ancestor's memories, and your class resource limitations are a thing of the past - you hit her with Ancestor's Memory, she hits everyone with Salvation of Time every few seconds, and you can keep you buffs (including ascendant) for, like, forever (and Aloth in meteor swarms or chain lightnings or whatever you like!) It is a little cheesy, but a little cheesy is how you beat the mega-bosses and I don't mind applying it generally...! You can slowly between you slap Barring Death's Door (or a Potion of Final Stand) and Ancestor's Memory on everyone (and stay permenant ascended in my case). I thought BDD was a bit useless, until it was pointed out that SoT is a thing that exists and Brilliant is a thing that exists...!

    I had Pallengina as a Paladin/Chanter (I did use pretty much everyone when prompted, or at the end, when I was maxing everyone out to 20th), but adding any chanter into the mix with Ancient Memory and Salvation of Time is nice (if slightly redunant with BDD...) is a steady flow of healing. I actually wished I'd made Vatik a priest/chanter, rather than pure priest, because chanters really are stupid good, both as a second class or pure (Konstantein, who I made pure chanter).
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-09-19 at 04:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    That's kind of my impression from SSS too. It's just a lot of difficult combat. I'm tempted to skip it on my current playthrough and just head straight for the Forgotten Sanctum. It doesn't help that high-level combat can be a bit of a headache, either. I prefer mid-game. And after trying the turn-based mode I almost wish the game had been designed for it from the ground-up. The final fight of the DLC really kicked my ass for some reason, to the point where I had to turn down the difficulty. Bad party composition, maybe?
    Last edited by Morty; 2019-09-19 at 04:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    That's kind of my impression from SSS too. It's just a lot of difficult combat. I'm tempted to skip it on my current playthrough and just head straight for the Forgotten Sanctum. It doesn't help that high-level combat can be a bit of a headache, either. I prefer mid-game. And after trying the turn-based mode I almost wish the game had been designed for it from the ground-up. The final fight of the DLC really kicked my ass for some reason, to the point where I had to turn down the difficulty. Bad party composition, maybe?
    Final fight of FS? No, I think that's just a REALLY HARD fight.

    I painstaking spent AGES with Watcher in stealth, picking off all the doofers one at a time (if you got spotted and reloaded - congratulations, all the damage it had taken was gone, start from scratch) and was still damn hard.

    It was suggested to me that using walls on the bugger is a good idea (and well as ironic).

    Oh, bug PSA for everyone - if you want to keep the godseeds, you have to have that conversation with Llengrath during the automatic conversation immediately after that battle. If you stupidly do what I did and finish the conversation (to save or something) and then talk to her again after that, you can still refuse to give them to her, but it won't transform them to craftable items from quest items. (It's a bug, I have reported it, but I think OBS isn't going to fix that sort of thing now.)

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    I meant the final fight of SSS, but the final fight of TFS is also incredibly difficult.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I meant the final fight of SSS, but the final fight of TFS is also incredibly difficult.
    Oh, uh, I kind of blitzed that one at the end of SSS, with said Ancestor's Memory + Salvation of Time drill. Though to be fair, I had Konstantein (also known as "the guy I respec'd to fight Belranga and probably the other megabosses") and those animated weapons hep a frack-ton as well.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-09-19 at 05:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Well, SSS makes it pretty clear that its intended to really challenge fans of the combat system, specifically. It has one job, and it gives it everything its got. I agree, if you aren't hugely enamored with pillars combat, you can just skip SSS entirely.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    You know, I just didn't bring a chanter along for either game. I mean, in theory, they are incredibly cool, but I just couldn't see how they could fully compensate for any of my other roles. I mean, a fighter is critical, I need a priest for undead, spirits, and healing/raising the dead, mage for sheer CC and damage possibility (and by the way, I grabbed the tome of vaporous casting early on and never let go of it - the extra spells are totally worth being more vulnerable to being interrupted), pally for extra healing and raising the dead, plus melee, and a cipher is frankly the best class in the game. Who do I give up?

    In PoE1, I added a druid because that lighting storm spell of theirs is freaking amazing. Cast it every single combat without fail.

    So I couldn't figure out which char to swap out for a chanter in either game, though I played with Kana in the first game until I got Grieving Mother and never looked back.

    I'll look at SoT and more use of BDD as possibilities for respeccing Xoti. I never thought about that combo before.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Chanters are regarded as being, like, quite good and a very strong mutliclass option (summons, mostly.) I believe they are stronger than in PoE. You probably don't really need a paladin for extra healing (I got through with only Xoti just fine as a Druid/Monk, even before I started using SoT/BDD) - though arguably Pallegina is better as Chanter/Paladin so she can do a bit of both (not that you can do anything about it now), I think; I do recall the OBS forum chaps seeming to be under the impression that multiclass is often better than single-class in many cases certainly the majority of optimisaing builds seem to be multiclass.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Fighters are useful, but hardly critical. Other frotline characters can do just fine. In fact, in PoE 1 I made Kana my tank, by giving him heavy armor and having him chant damaging phrases, then spam Killers Froze Stiff. Healing is likewise useful, but you don't need a cleric and a paladin to do it. Ciphers being best is... debatable, particularly in PoE 1, where wizards, clerics and druids reign supreme just like in D&D.

    I think part of the reason I dislike endgame combat is that differences in optimization start being really visible there, so I feel more constrained in who I bring along. And I generally prefer to rotate my roster. I also really don't know what the purpose of tracking XP separately is. You end up with your Watcher being level 19 while some of the NPCs are level 16. In PoE 1 you could make up the difference with adventures, not so much in Deadfire. Why not just give them exactly as much XP as the Watcher?

    Multiclassing does seem to be strong in general, but it depends on the class. Much like in D&D, multiclassing martial classes is generally a safer bet than multiclassing casters. Rogues in barbarians, in particular, have rather sad and dreary high levels, so make for good multiclass materials. Rogues have one active PL9 ability and it's pretty lame at that. Though I remember following a build to make Konstanten incredibly tanky due to a PL9 barbarian passive.
    Last edited by Morty; 2019-09-20 at 07:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    I frankly love the Lvl 9 passive that everyone has that raises power levels by 1. Seems pretty awesome for everyone, though I've always avoided multiclasses because they've always seemed underpowered compared to their high level single class counterparts. I think if there was a dynamic where a multiclass got some specific special abilities based on their individual multiclass combo (like maybe a fighter/rogue had reduced stealth penalties in heavier armor or something), and perhaps more than one ability and perhaps abilities that grew more powerful over time instead of being static, I would be more tempted.

    But for those that have multi's more, at max level, do they only get access to lvl 5 abilities in each class or do they hit 6 or 7?

    Maybe I love fighters because I love having Eder along. I certainly have not swapped him out for Rekke. He cracks me up and I have a hard time envisioning a party without him, much like Minsc in BG and BG2. Also, with the Berath's blessing of letting him have a pet as well, that's pretty awesome. I tend to keep Concelhaut's skull around, but I'd love to have him AND Nemnok at the same time since both of their abilities are great.

    Plus, Eder is the ONLY reason I beat TFS final fight. I don't know how, but somehow I dropped a prismatic wall right on top of my own dang party instead of across the Boss and some of his minions, and it ended up being the death of everyone but Eder. Luckily, Palligina killed the Eye Boss right before she went down, and so I only had a Soul Echo and one of those stupid minions that drop spells like crazy. Eder was low on health, but he tanked both of those guys and won the fight for me because he's THE BEST.

    Just sayin'.
    Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2019-09-20 at 09:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    I frankly love the Lvl 9 passive that everyone has that raises power levels by 1. Seems pretty awesome for everyone, though I've always avoided multiclasses because they've always seemed underpowered compared to their high level single class counterparts. I think if there was a dynamic where a multiclass got some specific special abilities based on their individual multiclass combo (like maybe a fighter/rogue had reduced stealth penalties in heavier armor or something), and perhaps more than one ability and perhaps abilities that grew more powerful over time instead of being static, I would be more tempted.

    But for those that have multi's more, at max level, do they only get access to lvl 5 abilities in each class or do they hit 6 or 7?
    Seven.

    Which gives, for example, multiclass priests Salvation of Time and the first level of animated weapon summoning for chanters. (And the only real reason to singleclass for ciphers is really 1000 cuts, the rest of the level 8/9 cipher powers a bit meh.)



    Eder is indeed great.

    I think to be honesty, that Dinvity Original Sin 2 had the best idea ever, which was to essentially allow you to take the character and then decide on their class without limitations. Yeah, PoE 2's choice is definitely a step in the right direction, but I think it would have been much better to just allow you to take the CHARACTERS you want but play with whatever CLASSES you like. On the one hand, you might need to lock it for some particular class features for something specific (example, Maia of Aagani becaue of the animal companion and Durance kind of had to be a priest); but I mean, they already had it so that you could be one or another class for pretty much everyone else, so they couldn't have had that much in the way of absolutely specific class dialogue with the exception of Maia, so I think there's more freedom there that they could have used.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    Look, the fights ARE fun and challenging, but I don't get to explore much. I don't get to see new vistas and new monsters, etc. It's just not compelling to me.
    Such is the fate of all arena DLCs.


    On companions, I generally find it better when they have set classes because their backgrounds and personalities can be written to make sense for their class, making a stronger overall personality because it is expressed mechanically and narratively.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Such is the fate of all arena DLCs.


    On companions, I generally find it better when they have set classes because their backgrounds and personalities can be written to make sense for their class, making a stronger overall personality because it is expressed mechanically and narratively.
    I have to disagree; a character should not need to rely on game mechanics to be written well; a well-written character is a well-written character. Some limitations might occasionally be narratively beneficial (not everyone being a force user in KotR, not everyone being a mage in DA:O, companions with pets, maybe), but that ought to really be the exception, not the rule, especially in a game heavily based on tactical party combat like PoE.

    PoE 2 is VERY DEFINITELY a big step in the right direction, giving you a better choice; I just think they could have gone a couple of steps more foward.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    The developers themselves said that this really depends on the class a lot. Fighters, barbarians, rogues and to a lesser degree monks are pretty generic; different ways of hitting/shooting things. But being a paladin or cleric makes a clear statement about the character's beliefs. Wizards, druids and chanters are somewhere in the middle in that they're just sets of skills, but ones clearly demarcated in-setting. You won't see anyone call Eder a rogue in-character, but they will call Aloth a wizard. Ciphers meanwhile are born, not trained. And rangers have pets, which are acknowledged in-character for both Maia and Sagani.

    I kind of wish PoE hadn't inherited D&D's class list, because there's only so much even good design can do with this mess, but I also know why it pretty much had to.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I have to disagree; a character should not need to rely on game mechanics to be written well; a well-written character is a well-written character. Some limitations might occasionally be narratively beneficial (not everyone being a force user in KotR, not everyone being a mage in DA:O, companions with pets, maybe), but that ought to really be the exception, not the rule, especially in a game heavily based on tactical party combat like PoE.
    Right, but a well written character whose mechanical implementation reinforces their narrative is better than a character who merely has a well written narrative.

    Take Zahua, for instance.

    His whole arc is about shedding pride and mortal attachment and is heavy on the self flagellation and mutilation, scarring his body to battle against his own pride.

    And he's a monk. The class which mechanically expresses that part of his character in combat.

    If Zahua was written exactly the same as he is, but was any other class than monk, he would not be written as well because his mechanics wouldn't express his narrative.

    And that's extended pretty well to most of the characters. There's at least something about them that means it makes sense for them to have the mechanical identity they do based on their character and backstory.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    I'm still on my first playthrough, so I'm still doing the classic RTwP and haven't tried the TBS version yet. Thoughts? Is it worth giving a go on a new run with TBS?
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Right, but a well written character whose mechanical implementation reinforces their narrative is better than a character who merely has a well written narrative.

    Take Zahua, for instance.

    His whole arc is about shedding pride and mortal attachment and is heavy on the self flagellation and mutilation, scarring his body to battle against his own pride.

    And he's a monk. The class which mechanically expresses that part of his character in combat.

    If Zahua was written exactly the same as he is, but was any other class than monk, he would not be written as well because his mechanics wouldn't express his narrative.

    And that's extended pretty well to most of the characters. There's at least something about them that means it makes sense for them to have the mechanical identity they do based on their character and backstory.


    One other solution to the issue, of course, would have be to use 3.x-style multiclassing, otherwise known as One Of The Best Ideas Ever. Then you can ensure to tip your hat to the narrative mechanics and still have most of your cake to eat it.

    No, really, I geniunely think 3.x multiclassing system was the single best idea it ever had, something so obvious, I was like "why was this never thought of before?"

    (Granted, you can certainly make an arguement that the implimentation of caster v noncaster in 3.x specifically could have been better, but it'd be easy enough to houserule with some multiclass feat adjustments if you really wanted...)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-09-20 at 03:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    I'm still on my first playthrough, so I'm still doing the classic RTwP and haven't tried the TBS version yet. Thoughts? Is it worth giving a go on a new run with TBS?
    I would say it is, simply because it's such a different experience. It's remarkably smooth, considering that it was basically an after-hours passion project by some of the developers. And it makes things so much easier to keep track of. Sadly, there's a number of balance issues, mostly arising from transitioning seconds into rounds and action speed becoming initiative. Thus losing most of its value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    One other solution to the issue, of course, would have be to use 3.x-style multiclassing, otherwise known as One Of The Best Ideas Ever. Then you can ensure to tip your hat to the narrative mechanics and still have most of your cake to eat it.

    No, really, I geniunely think 3.x multiclassing system was the single best idea it ever had, something so obvious, I was like "why was this never thought of before?"

    (Granted, you can certainly make an arguement that the implimentation of caster v noncaster in 3.x specifically could have been better, but it'd be easy enough to houserule with some multiclass feat adjustments if you really wanted...)
    3.5-style multiclassing was on the docket for Deadfire a while. Then the designers rather correctly predicted what a balancing nightmare it would be and scrapped it in favor of what we eventually got.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    So I finally punched through SSS - I did the minimum amount of battles, picked a face almost at random, got the unique war bow I wanted, and finished up with most of the arena battles and artifacts incomplete. Done! No intention of going back.

    On to the endgame! Eothas awaits!
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    And finished! Boy, that was great! At some point in the future, I'm going to start in PoE1 and make a bunch of different decisions since so many of them have impact in PoE2, not to mention that some of Berath's Blessings look pretty awesome (Eder finally gets a pet!) for the second playthrough.

    Anyhow, I'm just pleased as punch about both games. The developers did a bang up job as far as I'm concerned.

    Now, I need to finish up Shadow of War and then move onto Kingmaker which I've barely touched.

    Yay for great games!
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    You don't really need to finish PoE 1 again, unless you feel like it. The "save generator" can take care of the major decisions.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    I find PoE1 stronger on replays, because all the stuff that hinges on the worldbuilding and who the gods are has more context after you've been through it once and know who each of them are and what they're all about.

    In fact, I am replaying it now with a defense oriented hammerdin and a party quite focused on debuffing and debilitating. I might even use Grieving Mother this time (spoilers I won't she is boring* I will stick with Aloth and just use debuff spells).




    * GM is the counterargument to "what will Obsidian do without Chris Avellone", her and Durance were the characters he worked on in PoE1 and she's the least interesting one you get to meet with very little personal growth to her name.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2019-09-24 at 03:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    OK, so I started a new game with a chanter as the Watcher (removing Palligina as my pally, so I'll have to get used to not having Liberating Exhartation to get rid of afflictions, plus a backup healer and dead raiser, but I get a summoner instead), Eder as a Fighter/Rogue, and using turn based combat.

    Thoughts so far - TBC is interesting, but I don't have the ability on the fly to make Aloth run away at the first sign of trouble, nor have Eder switch to sword-and-board instead of bow as soon as mobs close on me to pin them down with Engagement even if he can't attack right away. On the other hand, it's less frantic and I have the time to thoughtfully decide what each character will do.

    I also got used to Aloth firing off a free spell or two before combat started (at lvl 20, usually Meteor Swarm + Web), but when I tried to drop Web down before combat, the web either disappeared right when combat began so I had to cast it again, or it used a spell slot, neither of which happened in RTwP. I haven't left the first island yet, I may re-restart using RTwP instead of TB, but I do like the chanter. It makes it easier for Eder to duck out and do Roguey things elsewhere if I have extra mobs to hold engagement and take the hits while he backstabs someone elsewhere, though I am still using him as a tank to keep engagement as necessary.

    I didn't take any of the subclasses for Chanter because I didn't like the idea of weaker summons even if they are faster/easier to bring out. I may reconsider if I restart with RTwP. I'm using my chanter as backup tank/melee since I want Xoti, Aloth, and Serafen (as a cipher) out of melee as much as possible. I maxed his Int and a bit higher on Con, but not trying for DPS too much, so kept Might low.

    EDIT: Aw geez, Serafen is the Cipher version of a Wild Mage. No thanks. I need reliability in my casters, I don't need a negative wild surge during a critical difficult battle. I think I'll start PoE1 over with a Chanter and get the druid once I hit PoE2 again. Tally ho!
    Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2019-09-25 at 02:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    I've honestly never had any major issues or ill effects due to Serafen's subclass. Maybe I was just lucky.
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I've honestly never had any major issues or ill effects due to Serafen's subclass. Maybe I was just lucky.
    I don't recall ever noticing any either.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    Really? The main negative is he'll do shock damage to everyone around him based on how much Focus he has, though are some other negatives as well. I imagine some of those would be unclear when they triggered if you weren't looking for it, but it's good to know that a 20% chance of a wild surge doesn't actually cause that many issues...
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    Default Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 DLC rant

    After trying the fight fight of Seeker, Slayer Survivor with my ranger, I think I might end up skipping this one too, on this playthrough.
    Last edited by Morty; 2019-09-28 at 11:33 AM.
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