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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Feb 2019

    Default A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    While reading the Pathfinder 2e playtest, I really liked the idea that named saving throws(fort, ref, will) could be tied to 2 abilities, using the highest. This would explain why they were distinct from the ability score saves of 5e, which I love, and which I think grants the designer much more space to think. However, the biggest problem for me, as with a lot of people I think, was this: the traditional ability scores go with each save, strength goes with fort obviously, charisma goes with will because it is the ability of mental force, and by default that leaves... intelligence with reflex saves, which makes no sense.

    I have gone away and thought about it, and come up with the following solution, which you may dislike, but makes sense in my brain. Wisdom goes with reflex saves, allowing Intelligence to go with will. This works because in order to dodge something, which is what a reflex save is, you are testing not only whether a character can move away in time, but whether a character can notice the effect and dodge out of the way, like the 5e barbarians danger sense. It seems to me to make a lot of sense, or at least enough sense to justify the mechanic, which the previous one did not.

    Anyway, that's the proposal, please give me your thoughts.
    thanks.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Male

    Default Re: A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    Why can't Int and Dex be paired together? I mean the whole quickness of thought/mental agility paired with physical speed/agility.

    If you need to dodge a fireball you need to think fast or be fast.

    Is that less problematic than Charisma and Intelligence making up your Will Save instead of Wisdom? Strength of will has traditionally been a Wisdom shtick.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Composer99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    I don't know that this idea, on the whole, is especially radical, since 4e D&D did it for the defences (which were the 3.X saves conceived as passive scores that worked the way AC did).

    At any rate it's a pretty good idea if you wanted to bring back the three-save model for 5e, or reduce the MADness of saves in 3.X.

    I also don't see what's wrong with Intelligence for Reflex.
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    Character Options: Fighter Remix, Paladin Oaths, Ranger Remix, Sorcerer Remix
    Playing the Game: Using Ability Score Variants
    New Subsystems: Combat Manoeuvre System
    Monsters: Yogg-Saron

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Feb 2019

    Default Re: A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    Thanks for the feed-back. I know that wisdom has always been for will, which was why I thought it was radical, even if it wasn't. My problem with intelligence as reflex is that, for me at least, when I am dodging out of the way of a fireball I'm not assessing the different areas for cover, and going to the best one. I'd be lucky just to notice that there is a fireball, and to realise that I had to get out of the way. This kind of intuition, reaction and more ill defined thought falls much better under wisdom, which even has a linked skill for perceiving things. Sorry if the title mislead you.
    Thanks again.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    What about charisma for Reflex and Int and Wis for will? Particularly for recent years of pathfinder, I feel Charisma lends itself more to a flavor of quick-thinking/audacious actions.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2018

    Default Re: A radical proposal for saving throws [DND, Pathfinder]

    Maybe it would be better to modify the ability scores to better match the saving throws?

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