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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Even if the caller is HIPPA verified giving out information is frowned upon. I can verify information without any dirty looks.

    Once some guy forgot his wife's SSN and called in to get it. I checked with a supervisor before giving it out. A new(er) manager was like nope, don't do that.
    Yeah, not volunteering information is how the system is supposed to work. That's a good thing.

    And, again, HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Yeah, not volunteering information is how the system is supposed to work. That's a good thing.

    And, again, HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.
    Technically if you pass the HIPPA, then you are legally allowed to have access to your stuff . . . not that it is a good idea to give out said stuff.

    So you can have a 6-year-old kid (I am not a 6-year-old kid) call in and say that they are me, and than get access to my stuff if they answer the HIPPA questions correctly.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-09-23 at 02:57 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Technically if you pass the HIPPA, then you are legally allowed to have access to your stuff . . . not that it is a good idea to give out said stuff.

    So you can have a 6-year-old kid (I am not a 6-year-old kid) call in and say that they are me, and than get access to my stuff if they answer the HIPPA questions correctly.
    I don't know. I'm fairly sure you're still liable if you give out information if you have a good reason not to.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    I have worked in a call center; I feel your pain. I work in a corporation...I hate marketing. But I also hate legal.

    HIPAA was designed to make it easy to share information with the proper people but only the proper people. However, anyone who makes money off that information is "Accountable". The grey area is "what is reasonable"?

    If a man comes into my pharmacy and asks to pick up his prescriptions, and says "Anything for my daughter?" This is rarely a problem especially with a minor. You hand over her antibiotic or acne cream and all is well. Now what if she's 18? What if her script is for birth control or the antibiotic is for an STD? What if she's 15 instead? How does that change the equation?

    Thus the rules are made broad to cover all situations and are strict to prevent lawsuits. Will this ever be a problem? Unlikely...until it is and you have to defend your actions as reasonable for your profession.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Can anyone tell me, is HIPPA anything like GDPR?
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    HIPPA is a law that basically says that we should not give out personally identifiable information willy-nilly. We need to verify who it is we are talking to before giving out personally identifiable information, and it must be someone who should have access to that information (not just anyone calling in to ask). We do this by asking for the persons name, address and date of birth and verifying the information against our records. It is something, and is better than the nothing that we once had.

    If someone calls for another department, then it is nuts for me to have to HIPPA verify that person before I transfer that person to the correct department.

    If someone calls for the status of their application, then I can see the requirement to HIPPA verify to tell them information about their account.

    Basically we are (per the procedure) expected to HIPPA verify everyone and anyone who ever calls us . . . because stupidity. I really do not think that the person requesting this of us understands how woefully inefficient it is to HIPPA verify someone calling the wrong department before we transfer them to the correct department.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-09-24 at 08:26 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Basically we are (per the procedure) expected to HIPPA verify everyone and anyone who ever calls us . . . because stupidity. I really do not think that the person requesting this of us understands how woefully inefficient it is to HIPPA verify someone calling the wrong department before we transfer them to the correct department.
    Sounds a lot like GDPR.

    Knowing what I do about what can go wrong with Data Protection, I don't think too careful exists. The problem is if you say "They are in the wrong place, I don't need to check who they are" and the next person says "This isn't a new call, I don't need to check who they are" no one checks who they are. You can't assume that the system is being run and operated by sensible people, they are likely bored, lazy and/or being pressured to do things fast so will look to for any corner they can cut.

    And don't forget, Data Protection failures can cause very big problems. I once had to scramble because someone compromised a police protection set up by giving out details of a mail redirection (I work in escalated complaints and spent half the day finding the trained monkey who made the mistake and getting them taken off calls and the other half grovelling to a terrified woman and her understandably angry son).

    Again, I don't know about HIPPA but under GDPR we are personally liable for breaches. That adviser could have faced jail time.

    Problem is, if people behave perfectly you only need one check. So you either need redundant (and yes, potentially inefficient) checks, or you need to hire infallible people.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Basically if they want information about someone, then verify who they are. If they do not want information about someone, then don't. The policy to verify everyone you ever talk to . . . assumes that everyone is a moron, and will hand out personal information without verification.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-09-24 at 09:19 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Basically we are (per the procedure) expected to HIPPA verify everyone and anyone who ever calls us . . . because stupidity. I really do not think that the person requesting this of us understands how woefully inefficient it is to HIPPA verify someone calling the wrong department before we transfer them to the correct department.
    1.) HIPAA. Not HIPPA. There is only one P. There are two As. HIPAA is a thing. HIPPA is not a thing.

    2.) It's not stupidity, it's CYA. The company doesn't want millions in fines. You, personally, don't want $50,000 in fines for each violation. The "screw it, do it for everyone" policy exists so that nobody can accidentally break HIPAA and wind up costing themselves and the company gobloads of money. And, again, it takes like ten seconds at most. If I had the choice between spending a few seconds of "inefficiency" to every person or possibly owing five figures over one slip-up, I'm going to go with "ask the damn questions" because guess what, I'm getting paid either way. No skin off my back. What is that "inefficiency" costing your company, tens of dollars per year? What does it cost the client, a few seconds of their life?
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil DM Mark3 View Post
    Can anyone tell me, is HIPPA anything like GDPR?
    The part of HIPAA people are talking about, yes. The actual act has a lot more provisions, but the data privacy requirements are the part the average person on the street is aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    If someone calls for another department, then it is nuts for me to have to HIPPA verify that person before I transfer that person to the correct department.
    If the person in the other department were to take your having transferred that person to them as an indicator that they have been verified, they might go ahead and give them information without themselves performing HIPAA verification. Someone has to do the verification, simply not necessarily everyone. That speaks to the need for consistency of implementation of procedure (one of the reasons you need a good training department).

    Basically we are (per the procedure) expected to HIPPA verify everyone and anyone who ever calls us . . . because stupidity. I really do not think that the person requesting this of us understands how woefully inefficient it is to HIPPA verify someone calling the wrong department before we transfer them to the correct department.
    I strongly suspect that they do, and they realize how unbelievably much money they would lose through fines and bad press if it were discovered that they were (through nonchalance on the matter, in the name of 'efficiency') leaving data breach vulnerability in their system. A well-trained department with well-thought-through procedures is the optimal course of action, but the next best thing (given that that is out of their reach at this point) is probably excessive deference to data security, rather than lax security standards.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-09-24 at 09:54 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    HIPPA is not a thing.
    Incorrect, as Hippa is the feminine of Hippo.

    Which brings up the joke about the feds and drunk hippos, but this is a family site.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Incorrect, as Hippa is the feminine of Hippo.

    Which brings up the joke about the feds and drunk hippos, but this is a family site.
    Harriet the HIPAA hippa is pleased with your restraint.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Parent hippos surround baby hippos in order to protect them from crocodiles.

    My wife and I would always call our kids baby-hippos when they would sleep in-between us in bed.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Incorrect, as Hippa is the feminine of Hippo.
    Which would make hippi the plural, and at that point "I want to be a hippi and I want to get stoned" makes no sense anymore, so that can't be right. I, Y, what's the dyfference?
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Hippie, not hippi. Spelling is important.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Hippie, not hippi. Spelling is important.
    Except in this case they spell it with a Y. Who could have known?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    I, Y, what's the dyfference?
    Oh, I did, in the hidden text! You don't have to correct people who are clearly joking, but if you do, it's best to be either right or funny.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2019-09-24 at 03:25 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Having been in more or less that position: you didn't get anyone fired. I was occasionally able to get a small (under 100) company to do small things more efficiently. but even obvious things like "change the commission plan so the sales crew has incentives to do what you want them to do", no. You would think that sitting down with the boss accountant and starting a conversation with "You just paid me a $3000 commission on a $2000 sale" would get their attention, but nothing ever came of it. Except a $3000 commission.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Having been in more or less that position: you didn't get anyone fired. I was occasionally able to get a small (under 100) company to do small things more efficiently. but even obvious things like "change the commission plan so the sales crew has incentives to do what you want them to do", no. You would think that sitting down with the boss accountant and starting a conversation with "You just paid me a $3000 commission on a $2000 sale" would get their attention, but nothing ever came of it. Except a $3000 commission.
    .......are they hiring?
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Also there is pretty much zero chance they actually read any essay with FORTY SEVEN points, that's forty-four more points than what is considered to be good for an essay, you're going to lose people's attention by the fifth or sixth point and they're just going to be skimming or not paying any attention at all at that point.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Okay I have Asperger's Syndrome. I am socially awkward, and I will be smarter (a certain type of smarts) than most people. I can't really be the manager, because that is social skills smarts that I do not poses. So I am a cog, that just about always knows more about efficiency than anyone I ever work with. Seriously I will eat my hat if someone can find a coworker of mine that is better at efficiency. There is no such animal. I wish that there was, as such a person would make my life better, but there is not such a person in my workplace, nor will there likely ever be.

    I notice problems, warn people about these problems, get ignored, and then I get to do it all over again. Folks do not like being told that they are doing there job wrong, and then for me to be right almost every time just rubs salt in the wounds. I have to live with warning people that "X" is a problem, and have them just about always say "well let's see how it goes" . . . and it pretty much always goes the wrong way that I warned them about. It is like being stuck in a clockwork nightmare that just keeps repeating. I somehow need to learn how to live with being ignored, sit back, and just let things play out.

    I mean who would listen to this odd guy with autism about best practices? If he was good at best practices, then he would be in charge, right?

    -----

    Basically inefficiency is painful. I am then told that inefficiency is efficient, and to do things the wildly inefficient way. I am asked to just try out the wildly inefficient way of doing something to see how it goes. It NEVER goes well. I have already thought about this very thing extensively from many angles, and whomever wrote the plan, procedure, or thought of this idea did not think it though. Sometimes it costs us money . . . real honest to C-3PO money.

    I often find ways that we loose money . . . like 1-2 times per year. I just found a glitch that makes an application vanish into nothingness. I really want to know how often that glitch triggered in the last five years, how much money the glitch cost the company, but I will never get to know these things.
    I may not have Aspergers or be that high on the Spectrum (honestly I wouldn't be surprised if I was some sort of Autistic) but I work a Blue Collar job and good lord are you speaking to me right now. Managers who don't care, communication that is so bad telling us nothing may be an improvement, making us do something a new way that is slower/more exhausting/just plain worse.

    I feel you. I swear Corporate actively tries to sabotage its own company at times. Its mental.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Imean, have y'all considered that sometimes corporate isn't trying to sabotage itself and y'all maybe just can't see why they're doing it the way they do? Sure, it's possible that they're shooting themselves in the foot. That happens. It's also possible that they may have no good options and they went with the bad option that costs them the least amount of money. Or that they're just issuing a blanket order to stop small fires because while those fires may be incredibly localized and tiny, they can still cause far more damage than it costs to implement the blanket protection? Or any number of other possibilities that maybe you just don't know about?

    The "HIPAA verify everyone every time" is an excellent example - companies with HIPAA violations can rack up millions in fines, and the employee can also rack up tens of thousands themselves. Even being incredibly generous and assuming that policy costs the company $10,000 per year and the employee ten dollars per year, and that policy stops so much as a single HIPAA violation that would have been caught and reported, then it saved the company decades worth of the program cost, and saved the employee their entire lifetimes worth of the program cost. And that's with RIDICULOUSLY inflated numbers.

    I'm not saying no. Usiness makes stupid decisions. I'm just saying, it probably isn't anywhere near as bad as y'all are making it out to be.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, have y'all considered that sometimes corporate isn't trying to sabotage itself and y'all maybe just can't see why they're doing it the way they do? Sure, it's possible that they're shooting themselves in the foot. That happens. It's also possible that they may have no good options and they went with the bad option that costs them the least amount of money. Or that they're just issuing a blanket order to stop small fires because while those fires may be incredibly localized and tiny, they can still cause far more damage than it costs to implement the blanket protection? Or any number of other possibilities that maybe you just don't know about?

    The "HIPAA verify everyone every time" is an excellent example - companies with HIPAA violations can rack up millions in fines, and the employee can also rack up tens of thousands themselves. Even being incredibly generous and assuming that policy costs the company $10,000 per year and the employee ten dollars per year, and that policy stops so much as a single HIPAA violation that would have been caught and reported, then it saved the company decades worth of the program cost, and saved the employee their entire lifetimes worth of the program cost. And that's with RIDICULOUSLY inflated numbers.

    I'm not saying no. Usiness makes stupid decisions. I'm just saying, it probably isn't anywhere near as bad as y'all are making it out to be.
    At my work we process food (I won't get more specific) and we had a cutter than blended stuff together. We all know its falling apart and we needed a new one. They replaced the decent one first and it took the old one eating through 4 belts several times over two months for them to finally get a new one.

    We have a certain machine in packaging that is regularly costing us between 1-2 hours or work literally every single time we run it, and it needs to be replaced, but apparently we don't get enough orders to justify replacing it but its more than enough to justify running the stupid thing. I wouldn't actually care as I get paid the same regardless, except that downtime (which 95% of we workers have no influence over) is taken into account for our bonuses so when its like this we are just getting screwed out of a percentage of our bonus when we have no control over it.

    And most recently, a guy got some lactic acid to his face (he's ok) and this has made them look at saftey again. We all said get a small pump to just straight up eliminate ever having to handle it, but they want the people who need to control it to wear a whole bunch of PPE instead and add bucket covers and other stuff that slow us down. This is ignoring the fact that our saftey coordinator reminded them that PPE is supposed to be the absolute last thing that you should do and engineering it out is the best.

    And then there's their decision to change their minds 2 weeks after the CEO told us that they were gonna build a new warehouse and that we were gonna instead have a company build it and then lease it from them, making our new CEO look like an idiot.

    Like, good god Corporate, do you even talk to management over here?
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    My personal horror story is from the grocery store I work at. The store wide had been broken for 8 years, and it literally took a refrigeration unit catching fire due to overheating (yes, a fridge overheated) before they approved the money to fix it.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    One of the places I supervise, management has been so recalcitrant to do legally mandated safety upgrades it wouldn't budge after an accident sent 18 people to the hospital (most, luckily, just treated and released). The state version of OSHA solved the issue by driving construction equipment in and literally ripping out the offending equipment to use as evidence. Somehow, despite being on trial, having the company gutted and a significant portion of the workforce injured, they still managed to each draw six figure quarterly bonuses.

    Said company is now in receivership, due to a completely different set of idiocies.

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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, have y'all considered that sometimes corporate isn't trying to sabotage itself and y'all maybe just can't see why they're doing it the way they do? Sure, it's possible that they're shooting themselves in the foot. That happens. It's also possible that they may have no good options and they went with the bad option that costs them the least amount of money. Or that they're just issuing a blanket order to stop small fires because while those fires may be incredibly localized and tiny, they can still cause far more damage than it costs to implement the blanket protection? Or any number of other possibilities that maybe you just don't know about?

    The "HIPAA verify everyone every time" is an excellent example - companies with HIPAA violations can rack up millions in fines, and the employee can also rack up tens of thousands themselves. Even being incredibly generous and assuming that policy costs the company $10,000 per year and the employee ten dollars per year, and that policy stops so much as a single HIPAA violation that would have been caught and reported, then it saved the company decades worth of the program cost, and saved the employee their entire lifetimes worth of the program cost. And that's with RIDICULOUSLY inflated numbers.

    I'm not saying no. Usiness makes stupid decisions. I'm just saying, it probably isn't anywhere near as bad as y'all are making it out to be.
    I am 100% sure that the person making the rules does not understand sales, or care. She is in marketing, and wants us to talk about marketing bells and whistles that NO ONE EVER buys a plan off of . . . EVER, never EVER never. No one will ever buy a plan due to getting a discount on staying at a hotel or saving some money on a diet plan.

    Here is one example: we are supposed to ask the frequency of doctors visits on every call. This is worth 5% of a quality assurance score (that is quite a lot). This question is such a newbie sales agent training-wheels question that will almost never help pick a plan to advise a customer. If they have expensive medication, the question is useless. If they go to see a specialist often, this question is useless. If they are expecting to give birth, this question is useless. If they are expecting to have a surgery, this question is useless. If they want to have a plan with a co-pay, this question is useless. It is frankly, early and often, a useless question.

    The trainers likes to say "if someone goes to the doctor 7-8 times per year, then get them the gold plan" . . . this makes me cringe, because the gold plan is NEVER a good idea for the customer. The customer could have cancer and kidney failure, and the gold plan would be bad financial advice. Seriously I figured it would take a couple who is in their 60's ~20-trips to the doctor per-month for it to be a good deal. I think that the gold plan self-selects the sick, who just want the "best" and in doing so end up paying more for 99.99% the same thing as one of our silver plans (the silver plan below it in price). It is also there for folks who want "the best", where they think that the "the best" is "the most expensive". It a quite a messed up paradox.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-10-07 at 08:37 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    The trainers likes to say "if someone goes to the doctor 7-8 times per year, then get them the gold plan" . . . this makes me cringe, because the gold plan is NEVER a good idea for the customer. The customer could have cancer and kidney failure, and the gold plan would be bad financial advice. Seriously I figured it would take a couple who is in their 60's ~20-trips to the doctor per-month for it to be a good deal. I think that the gold plan self selects the sick, who just want the "best" and in doing so end up paying more for 99.99% the same thing as one of our silver plans (the silver plan below it in price). It a quite a messed up paradox.
    I am going to be very careful here for reasons, and just ask if you think your job is to sell people cost efficient healthcare or to make as much money for the company as possible.

    I am then going to ask you to tell me what you think your boss'-boss'-boss'-boss'-boss thinks your job is.

    From what you say it sounds like corporate understand the situation perfectly well.
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil DM Mark3 View Post
    I am going to be very careful here for reasons, and just ask if you think your job is to sell people cost efficient healthcare or to make as much money for the company as possible.

    I am then going to ask you to tell me what you think your boss'-boss'-boss'-boss'-boss thinks your job is.

    From what you say it sounds like corporate understand the situation perfectly well.
    It is a fine line. I have a fiduciary legal obligation, but it will likely never come up. I am also specifically and explicitly legally allowed to give people my opinion. This is quite the paradox. So if I think that the gold plan is the best, but mathematically it is FAR from the best, then how do you figure that out legally?

    We are talking like 45% extra . . . for NOTHING gained. I mean NOTHING . . . absolutely nothing gained. I wound never pick this plan for myself. I would feel quite scummy selling someone something, just to make money.

    Now if someone called in and told me that is what they wanted, without asking my opinion, then I would sell it to them.

    Now if someone called in saying that their company is paying for it, then the Gold plan would be the best plan for the customer financially. Event then it feels a bit off.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-10-07 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    I would feel quite scummy selling someone something, just to make money.
    Then have you considered selling cars instead?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-10-07 at 08:17 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Then have you considered selling cars instead?
    I never thought that I would be in sales, but selling folks something that they need is nice. I give them my educated opinion.

    The Gold plan confuses us insurance agents. We tried to figure out when it would be a good plan, and NO ONE could find an example that holds up. The gold plan self-selects the sick, and as a result is expensive. The gold plan also gets new agents, or the ones who can't math, or the ones that don't care to put folks into the plan. It really baffles me, this should not be a thing, but it is.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-10-07 at 08:28 AM.

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    Default Re: I think I got people fired . . . again.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    I never thought that I would be in sales, but selling folks something that they need is nice.
    I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I recommended cars.
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