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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Let's say a Chaotic Evil Bard who spews evil and inappropriate jokes for stand-up comedy which he tries to be funny. Does the bard take any penalty or bonuses for Perform (comedy) because of his evil jokes?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    No penalty or bonus for the performance being evil, although it can suggest some alternate concepts to you. The harbinger bard swaps out all their buff effects with debuffs for enemies. And jester, either the PrC or the base class version, is bard-like but uses perform (comedy) checks to do things very much like bardic music.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMotives View Post
    No penalty or bonus for the performance being evil, although it can suggest some alternate concepts to you. The harbinger bard swaps out all their buff effects with debuffs for enemies. And jester, either the PrC or the base class version, is bard-like but uses perform (comedy) checks to do things very much like bardic music.
    Ok I'll check these classes out. Thank you.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    I know for one of my games I made a really evil bard. He was a human heritage half desert orc. It let him qualify for able learner and the desert orc alternat feature and he would just scare everyone to death. Literally performed percussion until the enemy went insane from the negatives and the intimate stacking. I'll look up the build if you like. I added alot of flavor to him. Like willing deformities to get more intimate and reach. Most of that can be cut.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drackstin View Post
    I know for one of my games I made a really evil bard. He was a human heritage half desert orc. It let him qualify for able learner and the desert orc alternate feature and he would just scare everyone to death. Literally performed percussion until the enemy went insane from the negatives and the intimate stacking. I'll look up the build if you like. I added a lot of flavour to him. Like willing deformities to get more intimate and reach. Most of what can be cut.
    Thank you. I appreciate you'll look for the build.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    I'm off on weekend and all my notes are on my work computer. But from what I can remember he has 3 PrC, it's a variant bard that gives negatives to enemies rather then inspires. I don't remember the PrC names but I think its soul eater and tainted mage. The first one gives you get all kinds of fear related abilities. The second one gives you free tainted deformitie feats the more evil things you do. The last PrC is sublime chord. It let's a bard get 9th level spells. Now the class levels are all over the place but the build makes him 9th level casting bard that's a fear monster. Now I also used a magic item that was a drum that would also cause fear when played. So when I performed it would stack. You can get the item animated to play itself when he performs comedy of you want lol. But honestly I would say performe auditor. So he can just insult people and it counts.
    Last edited by Drackstin; 2019-09-20 at 09:46 PM.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drackstin View Post
    I'm off on weekend and all my notes are on my work computer. But from what I can remember he has 3 PrC, it's a variant bard that gives negatives to enemies rather then inspires. I don't remember the PrC names but I think its soul eater and tainted mage. The first one gives you get all kinds of fear-related abilities. The second one gives you free tainted deformities feats the more evil things you do. The last pic is a sublime chord. It lets a bard get 9th level spells. Now the class levels are all over the place but the build makes him 9th level casting bard that's a fear monster. Now I also used a magic item that was a drum that would also cause fear when played. So when I performed it would stack. You can get the item animated to play itself when he performs comedy if you want lol. But honestly, I would say performed auditor. So he can just insult people and it counts.
    Cool. Thank you.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    If done as a "for money" thing? They might take the "DM's friend" -2 circumstance penalty in some towns (or not, depending on DM's view of humanity or other races).

    Far as inspire / whatever? Works just as well. Easy to reflavor into "if we kill them faster he shuts up sooner".

    Would be a great candidate for Doomspeak and actually fits in concept too.
    Player >>> Build >>> Class. I'm running a game where two very effective characters are a Warlock (ranged touch attacks hit a lot. Who knew?) and a Daring Outlaw with a few maneuvers (full sneak attack and Island of Blades Stance generates a lot of damage quickly) and the Druid mostly uses the class as an excuse to live out lifelong dreams of being best friend to animals.

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    i can't really picture what an "evil joke" would be. The purpose of a joke is to generate comedy which is generally a good thing.

    Taste in comedy varies from location to location and from person to person so something i'd find hillarious you may find inapropriate or something a european may find unfunny a US citizen may find great comedy.

    The consensus would be "if it doesn't cause permanent damage to the person (as in practical jokes or pranks gone wrong... especially intentionally) it's fair game".

    What could quallyfy as "evil comedy" in my perspective is intentionally harming someone physically to generate comedy; That said some people are cool to be in the receiving end of even that.

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    if he's doing it to gain money, most people in a bar usually don't really care about the entertainment as long as its entertaining, so as long as you get a proper check your jokes will, in fact, be funny.

    As for combat, you can use your witty barbs to tell rude/lewd jokes about your opponent and your party would find it hilarious and gain the bonuses based on you uplifting their spirits with the witty banter.

    if you do take the harbinger the witty banter can be used instead to cut down opponents with sayings like "Your mother was a hamster! and your father smelt like the horse dung i scraped off my boots in the morning. in fact i wasn't entirely sure that it wasn't your father" and other comments like that, basically your a comedian that tells jokes about your audience members to make others laugh.
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    i can't really picture what an "evil joke" would be. The purpose of a joke is to generate comedy which is generally a good thing.
    It's a good thing, but not a Good thing. It's morally neutral, but often hurtful.

    I can easily imagine a bard who spews misogynist, racist and other jokes that reinforce the evil tendencies of those who laugh along with them, and demoralize those who are the butt of the joke.

    In this case, I would say the penalty would depend on the audience and what he is trying to do. If he tries to make people laugh who are not inclined to find his evil jokes funny, there'd be a penalty, but if it is people who secretly agree with him, that would be more of an advantage.

    Might be a bit tricky to do the maths when there's both kind of people in an audience, as would be if he performs at a random tavern or the like. But in such cases, I would say a bard should be able to read the audience and tailor the jokes to it ... perhaps with a penalty when he has only prepared evil jokes and is in front of an audience of paladins.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2019-09-22 at 06:02 AM.

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    perhaps with a penalty when he has only prepared evil jokes and is in front of an audience of paladins.
    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!

    *Goes to nearest church*
    *Dies after first punchline*
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    Asmotherion's Avatar

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    It's a good thing, but not a Good thing. It's morally neutral, but often hurtful.

    I can easily imagine a bard who spews misogynist, racist and other jokes that reinforce the evil tendencies of those who laugh along with them, and demoralize those who are the butt of the joke.

    In this case, I would say the penalty would depend on the audience and what he is trying to do. If he tries to make people laugh who are not inclined to find his evil jokes funny, there'd be a penalty, but if it is people who secretly agree with him, that would be more of an advantage.

    Might be a bit tricky to do the maths when there's both kind of people in an audience, as would be if he performs at a random tavern or the like.
    A good example; i'd see this going in the category of taste in comedy.

    Some people may laugh at it either because of the absurdity of stereotyping or because the mutual (unspoken) rule is "the comedian stereotypes a racist/etc and we're laughing at the personalised stereotype NOT in acceptance of what they're saying".

    Other people may take the joke a bit more personally and find it innapropriate.

    The innitial disposition and intent of said Bard is what could potentially turn it into an "evil" joke; this however is not apparent in the delivery of it most of the time.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    The innitial disposition and intent of said Bard is what could potentially turn it into an "evil" joke; this however is not apparent in the delivery of it most of the time.
    Yes, it is. I have not ever encountered a comedian whose politics I wasn't able to very quickly figure out.

    Regardless of intent: The more something is repeated, the more inclined are people to believe it. Even if they might believe they are enjoying it "ironically".


    Which makes an evil bard a very interesting character concept. Instead of just demoralizing the enemy in battle, why not corrupt whole villages?

    That has potential for a story like that one by Stephen King with the evil shopkeeper. Just even more subtle, because the bard doesn't even have to ask people to do things for him. Just encourage them to listen to his reinforcing of stereotypes again and again and again, with some schadenfreude when anyone in the village has an accident thrown in ...

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Yes, it is. I have not ever encountered a comedian whose politics I wasn't able to very quickly figure out.

    Regardless of intent: The more something is repeated, the more inclined are people to believe it. Even if they might believe they are enjoying it "ironically".


    Which makes an evil bard a very interesting character concept. Instead of just demoralizing the enemy in battle, why not corrupt whole villages?

    That has potential for a story like that one by Stephen King with the evil shopkeeper. Just even more subtle, because the bard doesn't even have to ask people to do things for him. Just encourage them to listen to his reinforcing of stereotypes again and again and again, with some schadenfreude when anyone in the village has an accident thrown in ...
    So you'd propose this evil bard be a drow elf female that uses jokes depicting mysandry to turn all females against their husbands and fathers and start worshiping Lolth?

    Personally this type of comedy would not be to my taste but i'd probably laugh along with it because it would not be apparent that the intent is to diminish men rather than laugh at the absurdity of statements in the concept of "all men are inherently bad and need to be reformed".

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Ok so i looked up the build i took, so this looks like i dove into it very deep to get the perfect outcome. but i used a lot of PrC, But you probably want to take inspired Awe, as your bard variant. it makes your inspire target enemies and bring down their stats. but this is what my build.

    Desert Half-Human Orc
    Chaotic Evil
    Bard4/ Dread Witch1/ Bard 2/ Tainted Scholar 1/ Nightmare Spinner2/ Sublime Chord2/ Mindbender1/ Dread Witch4/Nightmare Spinner3
    Variant Ability’s: Inspire Awe, Bardic Knack, Spellbreaker Song, Haunting Melody.
    Feats: 1st Dreadful Wrath, bf1st Run, f1st Able Learner, f1st Willing Deformity, 3rd Deformity: Tall, 6th Imperious Comman, 9th Doomspeak, 12th Fell Frighte, 15th Versatile Spellcaster, 18th Lyric Spell
    Flaws: Skulker, Aligned Devotion

    Spoiler: Desert Half-orc
    Show

    Many tribes of orcs live in isolated desert canyons or the ruins of ancient cities, now abandoned to the sands. Often their mutual dependence on sources of fresh water brings them into contact with desert-dwelling human barbarians. The resulting offspring valued for their tenacity, courage, and combat prowess, are often welcome in places where full-blooded orcs are not.
    Racial Traits
    Desert half-orcs have the general desert racial trait described above and all half-orc racial traits, with additions and exceptions as noted below.
    +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence: The desert half-orc is lean and hardy rather than muscular, but has adapted to be more socially adept than a typical half-orc.
    Low-Light Vision: A desert half-orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
    No darkvision.
    Run: Desert half-orcs receive Run as a racial bonus feat. Typically too poor to afford mounts, half-orcs learn from an early age to get from place to place by running.


    Now what i think i did was use a rule from one of the divine books that said you can select human as the other half of a halfbreed race so you can take human based traits and feat, and the desert orc is used to unlock one of the variant bard effects.

    the deformities i used for flavor in my game because this is actually the build i used for my BBEG 2nd in command. and i like to make my NPC's actualy have real builds in my game, that way nothing is out of reach of my players.

    i also added a dark creature template to him, another thing you don't need to have or use on your guy. but all that stuff i have in his build is really nasty. he made the group he fought "before combat because of his spells and abilities almost lose the fight before it started.

    and if your wondering about the random 1 or two levels of PrC here and there. mostly was to make sure i had the skills for later on. its a very skill intensive build. but you might probably opt to drop tainted scholar if it doesn't fit.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drackstin View Post
    Ok so i looked up the build i took, so this looks like i dove into it very deep to get the perfect outcome. but i used a lot of PrC, But you probably want to take inspired Awe, as your bard variant. it makes your inspire target enemies and bring down their stats. but this is what my build.

    Desert Half-Human Orc
    Chaotic Evil
    Bard4/ Dread Witch1/ Bard 2/ Tainted Scholar 1/ Nightmare Spinner2/ Sublime Chord2/ Mindbender1/ Dread Witch4/Nightmare Spinner3
    Variant Ability’s: Inspire Awe, Bardic Knack, Spellbreaker Song, Haunting Melody.
    Feats: 1st Dreadful Wrath, bf1st Run, f1st Able Learner, f1st Willing Deformity, 3rd Deformity: Tall, 6th Imperious Comman, 9th Doomspeak, 12th Fell Frighte, 15th Versatile Spellcaster, 18th Lyric Spell
    Flaws: Skulker, Aligned Devotion

    Spoiler: Desert Half-orc
    Show

    Many tribes of orcs live in isolated desert canyons or the ruins of ancient cities, now abandoned to the sands. Often their mutual dependence on sources of fresh water brings them into contact with desert-dwelling human barbarians. The resulting offspring valued for their tenacity, courage, and combat prowess, are often welcome in places where full-blooded orcs are not.
    Racial Traits
    Desert half-orcs have the general desert racial trait described above and all half-orc racial traits, with additions and exceptions as noted below.
    +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence: The desert half-orc is lean and hardy rather than muscular, but has adapted to be more socially adept than a typical half-orc.
    Low-Light Vision: A desert half-orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
    No darkvision.
    Run: Desert half-orcs receive Run as a racial bonus feat. Typically too poor to afford mounts, half-orcs learn from an early age to get from place to place by running.


    Now what i think i did was use a rule from one of the divine books that said you can select human as the other half of a halfbreed race so you can take human based traits and feat, and the desert orc is used to unlock one of the variant bard effects.

    the deformities i used for flavor in my game because this is actually the build i used for my BBEG 2nd in command. and i like to make my NPC's actualy have real builds in my game, that way nothing is out of reach of my players.

    i also added a dark creature template to him, another thing you don't need to have or use on your guy. but all that stuff i have in his build is really nasty. he made the group he fought "before combat because of his spells and abilities almost lose the fight before it started.

    and if your wondering about the random 1 or two levels of PrC here and there. mostly was to make sure i had the skills for later on. its a very skill intensive build. but you might probably opt to drop tainted scholar if it doesn't fit.
    Oh wow. That's a lot of pretisge classes.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Oh wow. That's a lot of pretisge classes.
    Like I said, not all of them are needed. I would look over them and cherry pick what you like best. But honestly. This would make your jokes intimate your enemies until they couldn't do anything.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: An Evil Bard Who Spews Evil Jokes For Stand-Up Comedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drackstin View Post
    Like I said, not all of them are needed. I would look over them and cherry pick what you like best. But honestly. This would make your jokes intimate your enemies until they couldn't do anything.
    I like all of them.

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