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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Welcome to the Arena rs2excelsior!

    This will be our OOC home where I'll gladly answer all of your questions and help you wade through the rules and create your character.

    Character Creation: Follow the rules located in the PDF to create two 1st level characters. It might be best to start with concept and try to create that character. If you download the PDF, it should be bookmarked with all the relevant headers and you should be able to follow links in the TOC as well.

    Updateable Google Sheets character sheets

    Some options might not be available, or will require a bit more work on my end. Usually, those things have an * to let you know they are still WIP. Most notable character option is an Animal Companion or Bonded Animal. I could probably run an Animal Companion, but a Bonded Animal would be a bit much. Plus, the Arena would be a bit hard on them as well.

    I ask you create a character as if you were considering making them for a campaign. Though you won't be engaging in any real social situations, it shouldn't be completely neglected.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Hello! I'm looking forward to trying this out!

    I'm starting to look through the rules tonight, and I have a road trip tomorrow where I can probably get through the rest of it (I won't be driving). Currently thinking something vaguely ranger/rogue like and a typical blasty caster, though those might change as I go through the rules.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Glad you won't be behind the wheel!

    Those are definitely viable options. Just shoot me any questions you have as you play through it. One thing I've found is that characters are very organic in this system. Especially once they've seen play, players start to make decisions based on their experiences and needs rather than set plans. And the beauty of the Character Points that is is very forgiving. Only Race, Background to a degree, and Flaws are really permanent and harder to get around. Worst thing a bad decision does is cost a couple CPs which can be made up given the escalating costs of specialization.

    Enjoy! Just snag and copy the character sheet and put the link to it here when you get working on it.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Okay, I've gotten through the skill section, starting on equipment. So far, I like what I see. Definitely see the D&D/PF roots, but it's not just a clone of that system. I do like the incremental levels--seems like you can buy a little thing pretty much each level or a bigger thing every couple of levels or so. I'm eager to get to combat and see a bit more about how that plays out.

    I don't know if you've got proofreading efforts in the works, but I have made notes of a few places where I've noticed typos, if you want that information.

    How much support is there for a gish-type character (something like a PF Magus)? Something mixing casting and martial, probably one of the elemental magics? That's one of the concepts I'm considering.

    Side note--I notice your schools of magic are called "spheres of power," any chance you were drawing some inspiration from the PF alternate magic system of the same name?
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Glad you're liking what you're seeing. There are definitely some 3.P/5e/P2 roots though it is far far from a d20 clone. You might be rolling a 20 sided die against a DC, but the similarities after that are more cosmetic than functional. The micro-leveling is something I'm really happy with, it leads to some very organic character growth and is far less limiting than a 20 level class system.

    I'm not to the stage of proofreading yet, and it'd get a couple of good once overs by me before I'd ask someone else to proof it. I welcome all feedback and proofing isn't my strongest suite.

    I'm not super familiar with the Magus, straight P1 is something I've had less experience with than 3.5/5e/P2(Playtest). But as far as gishing, I'd argue that it does it generally better and in a more flexible format than most do. It is very easy to make a natural gish and adjust capabilities to taste. You can definitely mix martial and powers well. No need to focus on one element, Primary Elementalist works though True Elementalist is probably pushing the CP budget a bit.

    I have heard of but not dived into the PF Spheres of Power, so it is not based on them. I'm not sure I've sold myself on Spheres, considered Disciplines and some others.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Okay, one sheet up:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    It should be complete, but check it over.

    I did this sheet first since it was gonna be simpler--no casting.

    I'm still deciding on the exact nature of the second character, but he will probably end up being something gish-like.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Ok, sheet looks good, like really good. Only thing you missed was filling in your crit DC ie 10+CTA Ranks.

    Let me know if you have any questions about selecting powers etc, I was running a Telekinesis gish this afternoon with my group and Cal who has never managed to play a spellcaster comfortably was able to throw together a Primary Elementalist and run is well.

    What did you think of creating your first character? Did you find it had options to express your concept? Did your selections feel meaningful? How would building this kind of character in another system compare? Any other useful feedback?

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    So that should be 14, yes?

    I think the biggest thing that I'd say about character creation was that I think an idea of roughly how many points "should" go to the different categories would be helpful. I know you have the option to spend on what you want, but a loose guideline as to how much one should invest in abilities vs feats at start. I'm pretty happy with how the character turned out--although I haven't seen them in action, of course. I originally had the dexterity one point higher, and I'd like to boost a couple of the other abilities (notably acuity and will), but that gives me something to spend level-up points on. There were also a handful more feats I was choosing between. Some of the math was a bit fiddly, and I did need to go back and forth quite a bit to reference the different tables and modifiers. I imagine that gets easier as you get more familiar with the system, though. Skill ranks took a reread or two to make sure I was doing the math correctly.

    I originally had the ambidextrous trait, but since it doesn't stack with the superior two weapon fighting feat and costs 2CP more, I swapped it for Improved TWF instead. It looks like the only advantage that ambidextrous has over going all the way up the TWF tree is that it doesn't have the dex requirement--is that the case?

    In another system--say, PF1e, since that's what I'm most familiar with--I'd have built an unchained rogue with the TWF feat. That would have given me sneak attack, which this build doesn't have yet, but otherwise could do most of the things this character can (again, as far as I know). I could have hammered out the PF character quite a bit faster--again, much more familiar with the system, but I think even with more familiarity it would be more work to build a character in this system, largely because there are more options--which is kind of the point.

    With regards to my second character--I'd mentioned the PF Magus, which you said you weren't really familiar with. In short, the magus has two (to my mind) defining abilities: Spell Combat, which lets you cast a spell with one hand and make a weapon attack with the other (at a penalty the attack roll--for both, if the spell uses one), and the spellstrike ability, which lets you channel a spell that usually requires a touch attack through a weapon instead. You also get the ability to ignore spell failure chance on heavier armor at higher levels, but it looks like that's not really a thing in your system. Is there a way I could replicate something similar to those abilities in your system? The first might not be an issue, with the way that actions play out, and I did notice there was one particular fire elemental power that added damage to a weapon. I'm sure there will be other questions when I'm actually building the character, but that will be tomorrow.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Yep, 14.

    One of the things that I'll be adding will be a sample character creation example that walks through building a character and will talk about different starting levels and give an idea of "good" etc. One thing you'll find out is you're always eyeing up that next rank here or feat there and always have about 10 different ways you want to spend your next level. I think that once there is an example character where you read though one being built and see a description of those derived statistics being calculated it'll be easier. It definitely gets easier with practice. I've got people in my group that couldn't create or level a character in say P2 or 5e by themselves create and are leveling characters in this with minimal help if any.

    Ambidextrous grants the same bonus as Superior Weapon Fighting without the Dex Requirement, but it also eliminates all penalties for using your offhand for tasks. There is a -2 penalty to attacks or skills etc when used with your non dominant hand. I need to clean up the language and stop calling it an offhand penalty, it should be a non dominant hand penalty instead. In that way it offers benefits beyond STWF. With the Wound System that can potentially make a real difference.

    Rogue, and Unchained Rogue at that, compares pretty well. It is definitely more versatile than most PF classes and that versatility matches up well against BSF. You can definitely get Sneak attack or Sudden Strike or a variety of other similar feats fulfill that niche. Would you really create a character for a campaign faster, I know I spend a considerable amount of time mapping out the level progression, MCing, Feat chains, etc and that can take hours. In BSF you don't really have that, as soon as you have a general direction most things can be fixed and ironed out as you go, there are very few mistakes you could make outside of choosing Mundane and later wishing you could be a manifester etc.

    With the action system and a couple feats you can easily pull off casting and striking in the same time, it just doesn't require a special ability to do it as one action. Channeling through a weapon isn't really a thing for touch attacks, but you can always pick up a feat and use somatic components while holding a weapon in that hand if you don't have the other free. There is Flame Weapon and also Ice Arsenal for pushing elemental damage through your weapon. You might lack the depth some of the special abilities written for certain classes can do but you make up for it in the wealth of other options available and capabilities you can have simultaneously. I think the lack of specific subsystems for dozens of different classes makes it easier to grasp and keep a handle on the options available.

    Thank you for the feedback.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    One of the things that I'll be adding will be a sample character creation example that walks through building a character and will talk about different starting levels and give an idea of "good" etc. One thing you'll find out is you're always eyeing up that next rank here or feat there and always have about 10 different ways you want to spend your next level. I think that once there is an example character where you read though one being built and see a description of those derived statistics being calculated it'll be easier.
    That would definitely be useful in a final version of the game--there are a lot of options (overall a good thing), which can kind of make you feel lost right at first before things start getting nailed down.

    Ambidextrous grants the same bonus as Superior Weapon Fighting without the Dex Requirement, but it also eliminates all penalties for using your offhand for tasks. There is a -2 penalty to attacks or skills etc when used with your non dominant hand. I need to clean up the language and stop calling it an offhand penalty, it should be a non dominant hand penalty instead. In that way it offers benefits beyond STWF. With the Wound System that can potentially make a real difference.
    Hmm... so the way I was interpreting it, with dual daggers like my character has the base attack penalty would be -5/-5, reduced to -3/-3 since I have Improved TWF. Does this mean that without ambidextrous the penalty would actually be -3/-5? If so I might need to reshuffle some things about.

    Would you really create a character for a campaign faster, I know I spend a considerable amount of time mapping out the level progression, MCing, Feat chains, etc and that can take hours.
    I really don't do all of that at character creation--I have a general idea of how I want the character to develop (sometimes I do plan out feats if I know I'm going for something feat-heavy, but usually I don't bother) and I generally don't mutliclass in pathfinder, and after that I just let it grow on its own. So yes, I could usually create a PF character faster, but that's just me.

    With the action system and a couple feats you can easily pull off casting and striking in the same time, it just doesn't require a special ability to do it as one action. Channeling through a weapon isn't really a thing for touch attacks, but you can always pick up a feat and use somatic components while holding a weapon in that hand if you don't have the other free. There is Flame Weapon and also Ice Arsenal for pushing elemental damage through your weapon. You might lack the depth some of the special abilities written for certain classes can do but you make up for it in the wealth of other options available and capabilities you can have simultaneously. I think the lack of specific subsystems for dozens of different classes makes it easier to grasp and keep a handle on the options available.
    Cool cool. I'm not 100% decided on a gish for my second character, but I do love that archetype, so it's quite likely. I plan to be getting started on that this evening.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Two-weapon fighting works like this. When you make a twf attack you get to roll two dice, one for each weapon, and get to keep the better result. Now, each of these suffer the twf penalty which starts at -5/-5 and is reduced to -3/-3 for you due to TWF and ITWF feats. Two-weapon fighting doesn't worry about the penalty for the non dominant hand. But, if you were to try and fight with just your non dominant hand due to injury etc in your dominant hand you'd suffer the -2 penalty. Ambidextrous also allows a character to pull of full TWF faster ie maxing out the -2/-2 penalties as early as possible. Essentially a two-weapon fighter can max out TWF though training with TWF, ITWF, and STWF or they can do it through natural talent and some training ie Ambidextrous, TWF, and ITWF.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Alright, getting on my second character this evening--been a busy couple days at work and I haven't had the energy to tackle a magic user in a new system. Gonna at least get a start on them this evening, and I'll post what I do get done for review.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Sounds good. I hear you, work kicked my butt the last couple of days, at least tomorrow and friday are better. Let me know if you have any questions.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Alright, partially complete sheet here. Still have to do skills and some of the fluff stuff, but mostly complete otherwise. Let me know if you see anything that needs tweaking so far.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by rs2excelsior View Post
    Alright, partially complete sheet here. Still have to do skills and some of the fluff stuff, but mostly complete otherwise. Let me know if you see anything that needs tweaking so far.
    Everything looks good. You've got a solid amount of gp sitting there and could afford something fun.

    You have three flaws, character are limited to two. That is the only mistake I found. Nicely done. I like the earth primary elementalist.

    Dwarves do get to bypass the requirements of Armored Juggernaut and can eliminate that armor speed penalty, unless you're eyeing up Mithril Plate and Mail for level 5, haha.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Alright, I am still around! Double check, but the sheet should be done now. Losing one of those drawbacks was a bit rough--I was strapped for CP to begin with, I'd already had to make a couple of compromises in the abilities. Losing a point of CTA did drop my attack bonuses, which is somewhat problematic. I was going to take it out of strength, but the chainmail has a strength requirement of 4--what are the penalties for being encumbered, exactly? If it's not too rough I might swap back over.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Encumbered-Hampered, Flat-Footed, Disadvantage on Athletics and Acrobatics Checks. Hampered is -5' speed and cannot run and cannot charge.

    Encumbered is probably too punishing, getting dropped down to 10' speed and being flatfooted is probably a dealbreaker. IMO springing for both Armor Familiarity and Armor Expertise at 1st level was a stretch.

    I definitely understand being CP strapped, it always feels like there is something just out of reach, especially for gishes at 1st level. At level 5 and 10 gishes really come in their own.. The nice aspect of the micro leveling is that you get more CP essentially every session you play. I wouldn't be too worried about only having an attack bonus of +2, we built five characters yesterday for a full campaign and out of the four characters that would enter combat, two of the four had a +2 attack bonus and the other two had a +3. With 13WP and your heavy armor, he's pretty tanky.

    Still need to fill out the perception block. Its 5+/7+/10+/13+/15+ the relevant modifier.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Ah, right. Since I have no ranks in spot or listen the modifier is 1/2 ranks in will, correct?

    EDIT: yeah, when it comes down to it, I'm kind of intending Ausir to soak hits while Arleigh does the stabbing. Perhaps shifting that a bit to both doing damage as they get some levels. Also I just noticed both of their names start with A... ah well.
    Last edited by rs2excelsior; 2019-09-30 at 07:58 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Yes, just half rank in Will.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Here is an IC Thread

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Just as an FYI: I work regularly M-F 8-5, so during the week I can make posts outside of that time. Weekends and evenings should be pretty much free for me regularly otherwise.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Sounds good. I work an odd schedule owning my own business, so there are days where I'll be able to post throughout the day and other times where I'll be bogged and be busy until quite late.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    How long will it take for Arleigh to secure the rope? One action? If it would be rather quick I'd like to get Ausir on the way up, otherwise I won't worry about it.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    One action to get the rope out, one action to secure it, but it'll require two hands. So, he can do it and get his weapons back in his hands if he spends the whole round.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Ah, that's helpful that Ausir isn't having to work with disadvantage... when I first mentioned the rope I thought you listed the DC as 10(-), which I interpreted as with disadvantage.

    Can Arleigh help Ausir up? If nothing else (he only has 2 strength, would probably not help much just hauling on the rope) giving him a hand to grab onto and a bit of a pull up. Does he need to roll anything to do so?

    Arleigh could take a stab at disarming his way down the hall... But that would take a good while, I imagine.

    Since we're done with combat, we get to do the "catching your breath" thing, yes?
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Yep, the DC10(-) denotes no require proficiency where a DC15(E) would denote an check that required Expert proficiency. I can see how that would look like disadvantage.

    Arliegh can help him up the last 5' by reaching a hand out etc.

    Arleigh can't successfully disarm the trap, he lacks the requisite Expert proficiency. The best he can do being aware of it is trigger it 5' with an action to gain advantage on the save.

    You get to Catch Your Breath at the end of the Wave 1 which is as soon as you get past the trapped hallway.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Ah, gotcha. Thanks! Heading over to IC now.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Should probably make Ausir's climb rolls over here:

    (1d20)[16]
    (1d20)[14]
    (1d20)[20]

    (1d20)[5]
    (1d20)[14]
    (1d20)[1]

    (1d20)[6]
    (1d20)[20]
    (1d20)[20]

    Three rounds' worth, just in case. EDIT: didn't need more than the first one, looks like.
    Last edited by rs2excelsior; 2019-10-03 at 08:52 PM.
    A worldbuilding project, still work in progress: Reign of the Corven

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    Are they running side by side through the whole hall? If they run single file only the lead one takes the strike.

    Damages(4d6)[3][6][2][3](14)

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    Default Re: Blood, Steel, and Fire Arena: rs2excelsior OOC

    And armor saves (3d100)[4][34][54](92)

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