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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Trouble with improvised effects.

    When creating effects from the top of my head, it is usually not a problem. Damage is easy to estimate, as are most saving throws.

    My problem is however the difference between Wisdom and Charisma saving throws. I never know which to use for any given effect. Any guidelines you can give me to determine this?

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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Wis: Mind affecting things that don’t deal with what cha and int deal with, the grab bag category.
    Cha: Banishment, emotion affecting things, truth serums etc.
    int: Illusions, something trying to “trick the player”

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Mar 2011

    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnintensifiedFa View Post
    Wis: Mind affecting things that don’t deal with what cha and int deal with, the grab bag category.
    Cha: Banishment, emotion affecting things, truth serums etc.
    int: Illusions, something trying to “trick the player”
    Also most psychic effects (especially the ones that deal psychic damage) key off INT saves.

    (But general mind-affecting stuff are still keyed off Wis, including 'psychic' effects that have a spell or normal monster ability analog. Like the Illithid's Dominate Monster 'spell-like', despite most effects in the Illithid ecology of monsters keying off INT saves, because Dominate/Charm saves in general are already linked to Wis.)
    Last edited by NNescio; 2019-09-21 at 08:43 AM.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Charisma is used pretty much exclusively for charm-type effects, apart from Banishment.

    Int is used for illusions and, for some reason, psychic attacks.

    Wis is used for everything else.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Charisma is used pretty much exclusively for charm-type effects, apart from Banishment.
    Charm Person, Command, Suggestion, Dominate Monster, and pretty much all the mind-controlling/ingratiating effects (especially the ones that rely on the Charmed condition) use Wis saves.
    Last edited by NNescio; 2019-09-21 at 09:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    J-H's Avatar

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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Intelligence: Interfering with thinking, logic (Mind Spike, Feeblemind, etc.)
    Wisdom: Interfering with judgement, instincts, self-control (Slow, Confusion, Charm)
    Charisma: Interfering with sense of self, self-actualization (Ego Whip, Banish, etc.)

    As an example of this, in my Castlevania game, many of Death's abilities key off of Charisma saves, even the Slow effect, because their will falters under the reminder that they are mortal, fragile beings doomed to die soon.
    Last edited by J-H; 2019-09-21 at 09:59 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    These guidelines are perfect!

    In preparation of introducing a certain psychic rock, I've prepared the Madness Tables from the DMG, although I adjusted the long-term madness to only last for 1d10 hours instead of 1d10 x 10 hours.
    I'm thinking about using INT as the go-to, if only to give the stat a bit more weight.

    Should I determine the saving throw based on the effect, or the source?
    Last edited by Bjarkmundur; 2019-09-21 at 10:19 AM.

    Spoiler: How to Make Custom Monsters
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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    Charisma saves seem to go with effects that push up against a creature's soul. They deal with things like banishment and possession. The way charisma casters operate, in addition, makes me picture charisma as a force of spirit.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Trouble with improvised effects.

    I also view the soul as being the key element for a Charisma save.

    Or you could just make it simple. There are lots and lots of things in the books with Wis saves, and only a very few with Cha or Int saves. So when in doubt about which mental save to use, just use Wis, and you'll almost always be right.
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