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Thread: Party of one

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Party of one

    It seems you can make a 5-way theurge Cleric/Fighter/Paladin/Rogue/Bard in 3.5.

    Spoiler: Abilities
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    Due to MAD, significant tradeoffs are required, particularly if starting at level 1. A reasonable 32 point buy is:

    Str 14
    Dex 10
    Con 14
    Int 14
    Wis 14
    Cha 14

    All ability advancement go into Wisdom.

    When starting at later levels, Strength and Dexterity can be dumped in favor of Charisma, Intelligence, or Wisdom.


    Spoiler: Class Advancement
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    Cleric is the primary class---I don't believe an alternative is possible. The exact sequence of classes is:

    Rogue 1/Champion Cloistered Cleric [Spell, Fate, Knowledge] 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Cleric 2/Sneak attack Fighter 1/Cleric 2/Bard 1/Cleric 5

    Cloistered Cleric 1 is in some ways more survivable at level 1 than Rogue 1 so you could use that instead at the cost of skill points.

    There is some freedom in the order and timing of dips. For example, you could pick up bardic music before sneak attack.

    It's reasonable to drop Champion Cleric since Aura of Courage + Smite Evil are generally worth less than Turn Undead, but we'll keep it just to cover all classes.


    Spoiler: Feats and class abilities
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    Human: Able Learner //1 skill point for cross-class skills + rogue 1 = all good skills are class skills.
    1. Wild Cohort
    1. Sneak attack+1d6
    1. Trapfinding
    2. Knowledge Devotion //bonus to hit/damage tides us over as a fighter.
    2. Fate domain -> Uncanny Dodge
    2. Spontaneous Spell domain //Spontaneous so you can use anyspell multiple times/day.
    2. Lore
    2. Smite Evil 1/day
    3. Extend Spell
    4. Aura of Courage
    6. Persistent Spell
    6. Smite Evil 2/day
    9. Turn Undead.
    9. Divine Metamagic[Persistent Spell] //Full BAB
    11. Smite Evil 3/day
    12. SA Fighter Sneak Attack +1d6
    12. Sacred Outlaw (Dragon #357) Sneak Attack +4d6
    13. Sneak Attack+1d6
    15. Bardic Music, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage+1
    15. Divine Inspiration (Dragon #333) Inspire Courage+2, Song of Freedom, Inspire Greatness, Suggestion, Inspire Competence
    16. Sneak Attack+1d6
    16. Inspire Courage+3
    17. Inspire Heroics
    18. Alternate Source Spell (Dragon #325) //DMM Persist Ruin Delver's Fortune for Saves+Cha, Evasion
    18. Sneak Attack+1d6
    18. Smite Evil 4/day
    20. Sneak Attack+1d6
    20. Mass Suggestion


    Spoiler: skills
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    Able Learner means you can basically choose any skill. We have 9 or more, so a good selection seems to be:
    1. Search
    2. Disable Device
    3. Spot
    4. Diplomacy
    5. Sense Motive
    6. Hide
    7. Spellcraft
    8. Concentration
    9. Use Magic Device


    Altogether, you start out as a skill-monkey/Fighter/Cleric and finish with every level advancing:
    1. Cleric caster level (->L17)
    2. Paladin Smite Evil (->L17 = 4/day)
    3. Full Base Attack (->20)
    4. Bardic Music (->L18)
    5. Lore (->L17)
    6. 9+ skills
    7. Sneak Attack -> (->L20)
    8. Turn Undead (->L18) (By RAW at least. Sacred Outlaw also advances Turn undead according to cleric levels even though you traded it for Champion.)
    9. Wild Cohort (Special mount as Druid L17)


    You also have access to other key class-defining abilities.
    1. Evasion (Greater Anyspell[DMM[Persist] Alternate Source Ruin Delver's Fortune])
    2. Uncanny Dodge
    3. Trapfinding
    4. Saves + Cha modifier (Greater Anyspell[DMM[Persist] Alternate Source Ruin Delver's Fortune])
    5. Aura of Courage
    6. Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, Tower Shields
    7. Fighter Feats (Anyspell[Heroics])


    Altogether, the combination subsumes the hallmarks of 5 classes I suspect it's not really possible to go further, although I'm curious if anyone has ideas...
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party of one

    Can you take both champion and cloistered cleric? I thought the deal with UA classes was that they're actual variant classes and not ACFs.
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Can you take both champion and cloistered cleric? I thought the deal with UA classes was that they're actual variant classes and not ACFs.
    As far as I can see it's valid. Champion is listed under Other Class Variants which says:
    Quote Originally Posted by Other Class Variants
    These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class.
    Since a Cloistered Cleric is still a Cleric it is a valid target for the Champion swap.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party of one

    Cool, I don't have much to say then. Dipping a weaker class and then taking one of the feats that let you advance its main feature while taking caster classes has always been a valid form of tier-shaming.

    You could sacrifice a sneak attack die for Knight of Furyondy 1 which gives you a paladin mount, though you'd have to use elf chaos shuffle to meet the prereqs. Only becomes appealing if you're lactose tolerant enough to retrain PRC prereqs, though, in which case you don't technically need elf anyway.
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Party of one

    In the last days I was also checking the chances for a three-class character (reminiscence of AD&D/BG2's fighter/wizard/thief), and I can possibly suggest some additional options.

    You could sacrifice the rogue and fighter levels and replace them with swordsage 2; you'd get back the 2d6 sneak attack AND the monk's Wis-to-AC bonus. Then get persistent spell through metamagic storm (or any other trick to get free feats), and replace it with planar touchstone (catalogue of enlightenment: kobold domain) to keep trapfinding. Hopefully I'm not overlooking something that would make the build illegal...

    PS: worthless to say, kudos to you, I also love these kinds of mashups!
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-09-21 at 01:04 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Dipping a weaker class and then taking one of the feats that let you advance its main feature while taking caster classes has always been a valid form of tier-shaming.
    My thinking was more like "cool, I can make a super-gestalt", but this does seem a valid inference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    You could sacrifice a sneak attack die for Knight of Furyondy 1 which gives you a paladin mount, though you'd have to use elf chaos shuffle to meet the prereqs.
    The mount would not advance unless you continue to take Knight of Furyondy which implies abandoning other parts of the gestalt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    You could sacrifice the rogue and fighter levels and replace them with swordsage 2; you'd get back the 2d6 sneak attack AND the monk's Wis-to-AC bonus. Then get persistent spell through metamagic storm (or any other trick to get free feats), and replace it with planar touchstone (catalogue of enlightenment: kobold domain) to keep trapfinding. Hopefully I'm not overlooking something that would make the build illegal...
    This seems valid, but I'm not sure how advantageous it as you can get a Monk's Belt around when this starts coming online. For this build I was also worrying a bit about playability in the level 1 or 2 range.

    With an unbounded number of feats, you can avoid the Rogue 1 / Fighter 1, since you can take Martial Strike(Shadow Jaunt) + Martial Stance(Assassin's Stance) + Planar Touchstone[Catalogs of Enlightenment[Kobold]]. It's also possible to trade the level of Bard for a level of Heartfire Fanner + Skill Focus (Diplomacy) + Negotiator. Altogether this would leave you with Cleric 20 casting and 18 levels of Cleric. But, the feat tax is quite high given the other demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    PS: worthless to say, kudos to you, I also love these kinds of mashups!
    Thanks
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    The mount would not advance unless you continue to take Knight of Furyondy which implies abandoning other parts of the gestalt.
    Holy Mount would still work to let your cleric levels advance your mount, since you have a special mount "as a paladin". @lvl20 your mount would equal a 22nd level paladin's.
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Holy Mount would still work to let your cleric levels advance your mount, since you have a special mount "as a paladin". @lvl20 your mount would equal a 22nd level paladin's.
    Very good. This works except for the feat tax then.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    Very good. This works except for the feat tax then.
    I'm just saying...
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Yeah, there are many tricks for getting and using additional feats and/or avoiding PRC prereqs. I've avoided that here, because I suspect many such don't fly at actual tables, even if they are legal.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Party of one



    I get it... But why?
    Last edited by Afghanistan; 2019-09-22 at 10:14 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party of one

    Quote Originally Posted by Afghanistan View Post
    [I get it... But why?
    Elements of this may be useful for a solo character somewhere.
    Last edited by Anthrowhale; 2019-09-23 at 06:33 AM.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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