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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    When I said not listed materials, mostly meant that tome of Horrors is a third party product (frog god game) that isn't on my list of allowed materials, didn't mean any confusion by it.
    #facepalm That makes total sense. Sorry about my confused-ness.

    Ok, how about a Couatl instead of the Sepia Snake?

    The Couatl is CR 10 and looks like it fits pretty well with the Sleipnir/Dragon Horse/Kirin from the example list on Monstrous Companion.

    Where would you judge it if I took the Couatl as my Monstrous Companion?

    Or, if you really want to stick with the list of given creatures, could I "re-skin" a Kirin as a Couatl, keeping the same stats, but changing the description to fit my snake theme? If so, where would you put the Kirin?

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomander View Post
    Having just been shopping for a monstrous cohort myself, I would put the Sepia Snake at the middle of the pack. Better than the Sleipner, but not a beastly powerhouse like the Couatl or Deva.
    Semper ludens.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    While people are talking about cohorts and leadership, I have been creating a monstrosity.

    However, I've run into a problem. This character is seeming on the strong side. However, creating sufficiently strong bodies in the way I have been is quite difficult, especially since ALL of the higher level options (ie, ones where the body is of appropriate level when reduced by half) are evil creatures and variation thereof, on top of being really strong. Now, it's fine with me if the result is strong if that's what the game is going for. However, may I have the option of creating an advanced version of say, a solar, to use a body that would be weaker than my current one? I just want a medium-ish creature to use for some defenses, essentially, not for any spells/wishes/etc.
    Last edited by Snowbluff; 2019-09-24 at 12:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by CasualViking View Post
    Having just been shopping for a monstrous cohort myself, I would put the Sepia Snake at the middle of the pack. Better than the Sleipner, but not a beastly powerhouse like the Couatl or Deva.
    Well, my denseness failed to realize that the Sepia Snake isn't from an approved source. But in general I would agree, except for my character being a Cavalier - CHARGE!!!!! The Sleipner has a nice damage on the charge, which is pretty attractive for my particular build.

    The Deva isn't an option in the Monstrous Companion list, but the Kirin is, which has ALL teh goodies - bonus damage on the charge, crazy-fast fly speed, casts as a 6th level sorcerer, SLAs, and a breath weapon.

    So yeah, if I could get a Kirin re-skinned as a snake creature, I'd be all over that!

    And as an aside, I don't think even a Kirin monstrous companion would be OP, since I'm a physical combat character running with characters with Shapechange and other 9th level spell goodies.

    edit: As a possible aid in measuring different monsters for Monstrous Companion, the Monster Cohorts page lists the Dragon Horse and Sleipnir as 3 levels higher than the Kirin. The only monster given specific rankings in common between the two pages is the Worg. As a cohort it is listed as level 5 equivalent, while as a companion it is listed as level 9 - four higher. The Kirin is shown as level 13 on the cohort page, so four higher would put it at level 17 equivalent as a monstrous companion??

    I'm just 1/2 thinking aloud and 1/2 offering something that might make the DM choices simpler.
    Last edited by Anomander; 2019-09-24 at 02:02 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Posting interesting as legendary ranger

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Not sure if I'd actually go through with the concept or make something more narrow. Ill have to see if everything fits into my build.


    EDIT - question for the GM (two, actually)

    1- can I buy a costume magic item that gives endless ale?
    2- can the accelerated drinker trait apply to alchohol?
    Last edited by Heavenblade; 2019-09-24 at 03:48 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Are we allowed to combine magic items?

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Mechanics done on the paladin; flavor to follow.

    Seldlon Wolf

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomander View Post
    #facepalm That makes total sense. Sorry about my confused-ness.

    Ok, how about a Couatl instead of the Sepia Snake?

    The Couatl is CR 10 and looks like it fits pretty well with the Sleipnir/Dragon Horse/Kirin from the example list on Monstrous Companion.

    Where would you judge it if I took the Couatl as my Monstrous Companion?

    Or, if you really want to stick with the list of given creatures, could I "re-skin" a Kirin as a Couatl, keeping the same stats, but changing the description to fit my snake theme? If so, where would you put the Kirin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Anomander View Post
    Well, my denseness failed to realize that the Sepia Snake isn't from an approved source. But in general I would agree, except for my character being a Cavalier - CHARGE!!!!! The Sleipner has a nice damage on the charge, which is pretty attractive for my particular build.

    The Deva isn't an option in the Monstrous Companion list, but the Kirin is, which has ALL teh goodies - bonus damage on the charge, crazy-fast fly speed, casts as a 6th level sorcerer, SLAs, and a breath weapon.

    So yeah, if I could get a Kirin re-skinned as a snake creature, I'd be all over that!

    And as an aside, I don't think even a Kirin monstrous companion would be OP, since I'm a physical combat character running with characters with Shapechange and other 9th level spell goodies.

    edit: As a possible aid in measuring different monsters for Monstrous Companion, the Monster Cohorts page lists the Dragon Horse and Sleipnir as 3 levels higher than the Kirin. The only monster given specific rankings in common between the two pages is the Worg. As a cohort it is listed as level 5 equivalent, while as a companion it is listed as level 9 - four higher. The Kirin is shown as level 13 on the cohort page, so four higher would put it at level 17 equivalent as a monstrous companion??

    I'm just 1/2 thinking aloud and 1/2 offering something that might make the DM choices simpler.
    reskinning a kirin as a couatl is a better option. The effective cohort levels are already pretty harsh to begin with and couatl would end up almost not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavenblade View Post
    Not sure if I'd actually go through with the concept or make something more narrow. Ill have to see if everything fits into my build.


    EDIT - question for the GM (two, actually)

    1- can I buy a costume magic item that gives endless ale?
    2- can the accelerated drinker trait apply to alchohol?
    1- it's already a Pathfinder item: Drinking Horn of Bottomless Valor
    , If you don't want to spend too much gold can make a mead/ale version of the flask of endless sake.


    2-Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Are we allowed to combine magic items?
    Someone asked for a combined magic items earlier in the thread. But yeah it's allowed.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    While people are talking about cohorts and leadership, I have been creating a monstrosity.

    However, I've run into a problem. This character is seeming on the strong side. However, creating sufficiently strong bodies in the way I have been is quite difficult, especially since ALL of the higher level options (ie, ones where the body is of appropriate level when reduced by half) are evil creatures and variation thereof, on top of being really strong. Now, it's fine with me if the result is strong if that's what the game is going for. However, may I have the option of creating an advanced version of say, a solar, to use a body that would be weaker than my current one? I just want a medium-ish creature to use for some defenses, essentially, not for any spells/wishes/etc.
    I honestly never bother with simulacrum since all the rules, Faqs, even when they ask the creator of the game, are inconsistent. Anything based on Simulacrum at least for this game is a waste of time.
    Last edited by Final; 2019-09-24 at 11:16 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    I honestly never bother with simulacrum since all the rules, Faqs, even when they ask the creator of the game, are inconsistent. Anything based on Simulacrum at least for this game is a waste of time.
    Just to clarify, are you saying the Simulacrum Possession Trick isn't allowed?

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Genth View Post
    Just to clarify, are you saying the Simulacrum Possession Trick isn't allowed?
    I'd rather not spend time writing down all the rules about Simulacrum is mostly what I'm saying. As I already know all the questions that I'm going to get "can I copy mythic creatures?" "Why not?" etc...it just get into silly arguements territories.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    I guess I want a sense of how optimized we're going for with this group.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Genth View Post
    I guess I want a sense of how optimized we're going for with this group.
    This part isn't really optimization, Simulacrum if we go, with the idea that we allow everything you end up with things like:

    Cthulhu has technically 36 HD and if we allow mythic creatures to be made into simulacrum, then yeah sure, almost no reasons that all npcs wouldn't also use the same tactic...which is quite unbalanced to say the least and players definitely wouldn't have anywhere for reference of power level.

    While this adventure definitely doesn't pull any punches, it's not made to the point of ridiculousness.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    I'd be interested. Not sure yet what I'd play.

    Edit: Maybe an Awakened Blade. I have a high level one made that I could adapt to level 20.
    Last edited by Athaleon; 2019-09-25 at 12:38 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Sorry I think I've miscommunicated: When I saw Snowbluffs character I was worried that if things like Possessing a Simulacrum to get high ability scores is the jam here I'll need to rethink as I'm doing a relatively middling Psion. Still quite strong but no real tricks

    Also worth noting with amusement you bring up Cthulu as an example and Snowbluff has made a Simulacrum of Hastur to possess :p
    Last edited by Genth; 2019-09-25 at 12:33 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    I might also need to rethink my power level...I have lots of debuffs, but at this level tons of creatures would be immune to them. My chassis isn't sky high either, so...Ill write down the numbers and then decide

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    My armor class is kinda high, mostly from lacking the need to sink money into weapons or other primary tools. But I'm not even adding my stratospheric Cha to AC most of the time. Other than that, my character just straightforwardly hands out bonuses like she was Sailor Santa Claus on shore leave.
    Last edited by CasualViking; 2019-09-25 at 06:25 AM.
    Semper ludens.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Hereís my (unfluffed) character; I was building an Awakened Blade and noticed the power Dispatch, and so thatís one of the main tools of my build. Iím also thinking about maybe just going Voyager 20, as itís a class I havenít really gotten a chance to try.
    Last edited by In4Dimensions; 2019-09-25 at 06:58 AM.
    Chaotic Good, probably

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    High AC and the likes are fine.

    If people wants a few more details:

    -Most fights will be around CR 23-25 (total). With CR 23 being considered relatively easy, CR 24 somewhat challenging and CR 25 probably pretty deadly.
    -The last battle will be higher, because, it's the finale.

    So essentially if your idea of optimization is summoning or using a CR 28-30 creature...probably not the game for you.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    I honestly never bother with simulacrum since all the rules, Faqs, even when they ask the creator of the game, are inconsistent. Anything based on Simulacrum at least for this game is a waste of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    This part isn't really optimization, Simulacrum if we go, with the idea that we allow everything you end up with things like:

    Cthulhu has technically 36 HD and if we allow mythic creatures to be made into simulacrum, then yeah sure, almost no reasons that all npcs wouldn't also use the same tactic...which is quite unbalanced to say the least and players definitely wouldn't have anywhere for reference of power level.

    While this adventure definitely doesn't pull any punches, it's not made to the point of ridiculousness.
    Well, the Cthulu simulacrum is only 18 HD, the spell is specifically made to copy specific creatures.

    I am really short on funds, and fulfilling the defensive needs of my character while also being a grappler who needs to cover 2 weapon fighting, I am going to have to make myself a body one way or another. You're seemingly allowing for Leadership to be used in order to fulfill the other needs of characters, which could literally produce the same problems as simulacrum, which I specifically said I wouldn't applying in the same way. Well anyway, since Simulacrum generates too many questions, I have questions about leadership.

    Should I be making a ridiculously well armored cohort to possess, but would also fulfill other needs like their NPC wealth funding my physical stats as well? Since leadership is so strong and there is no reason for every NPC to take, should we be expecting literally every fight to be CR appropriate, except they also have a cadre of high level NPCs assisting them?

    Yo. If high AC is ok, I see no reason me using a simulacrum to get a high AC and Str wouldn't be ok. I specifically asked for a weaker body that would fulfill my objective to be allowed as well.
    Last edited by Snowbluff; 2019-09-25 at 08:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Well, the Cthulu simulacrum is only 18 HD, the spell is specifically made to copy specific creatures.

    I am really short on funds, and fulfilling the defensive needs of my character while also being a grappler who needs to cover 2 weapon fighting, I am going to have to make myself a body one way or another. You're seemingly allowing for Leadership to be used in order to fulfill the other needs of characters, which could literally produce the same problems as simulacrum, which I specifically said I wouldn't applying in the same way. Well anyway, since Simulacrum generates too many questions, I have questions about leadership.

    Should I be making a ridiculously well armored cohort to possess, but would also fulfill other needs like their NPC wealth funding my physical stats as well? Since leadership is so strong and there is no reason for every NPC to take, should we be expecting literally every fight to be CR appropriate, except they also have a cadre of high level NPCs assisting them?

    Yo. If high AC is ok, I see no reason me using a simulacrum to get a high AC and Str wouldn't be ok. I specifically asked for a weaker body that would fulfill my objective to be allowed as well.
    You can if you want and yes npc have npc heroic array and npc wealth. The CR will indeed be bumped if cohorts come around, right now with 5 people, I consider the party to have an APL of 20(maybe 21). If everybody brings a cohort, so let say 10 people party, the APL of the party would be bumped to be roughly APL 22/23 (depending on how effective people are) and CR will be bumped appropriately by +2 or +3 above what I posted.

    The time limit and some dungeons effects, don't make all abilities viable, so some combos are probably not a good idea. As a general advice, wouldn't recommend anybody to focus on summoning too much.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    You can if you want and yes npc have npc heroic array and npc wealth. The CR will indeed be bumped if cohorts come around, right now with 5 people, I consider the party to have an APL of 20(maybe 21). If everybody brings a cohort, so let say 10 people party, the APL of the party would be bumped to be roughly APL 22/23 (depending on how effective people are) and CR will be bumped appropriately by +2 or +3 above what I posted.

    The time limit and some dungeons effects, don't make all abilities viable, so some combos are probably not a good idea. As a general advice, wouldn't recommend anybody to focus on summoning too much.
    So what you're saying is that since my plan can't abuse the action economy of the Leadership ability, I am hamstringing myself because I'd be taking their actions?

    The business is that I still need to compete given other people have AC in the 50s and me being in the 40s still. My grappling bonus with my hair is still MUCH too low as well for this CR. Furthermore, I have spells and I want to use them!

    Plan 2, Planar binding. If I can't have a HD 17 Solar Simulacrum, might as well have a HD 17 Planetar.

    Why would specifically summoning not work?

    Alternate plan, monster cohorts since NPC stats suck. What say you to advancing a monster cohort with class levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    So what you're saying is that since my plan can't abuse the action economy of the Leadership ability, I am hamstringing myself because I'd be taking their actions?

    The business is that I still need to compete given other people have AC in the 50s and me being in the 40s still. My grappling bonus with my hair is still MUCH too low as well for this CR. Furthermore, I have spells and I want to use them!

    Plan 2, Planar binding. If I can't have a HD 17 Solar Simulacrum, might as well have a HD 17 Planetar.

    Why would specifically summoning not work?

    Alternate plan, monster cohorts since NPC stats suck. What say you to advancing a monster cohort with class levels.
    Summoning without too much spoiler, works in the main dungeon but you can only summon creatures that are the dungeon. Anything else doesn't work.

    Yeah sure, monster cohorts are alright tho. Erynes for example are listed in the book as Monster cohorts of level 16, so at level 19 cohort, someone only has 3 class levels to play with.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    Summoning without too much spoiler, works in the main dungeon but you can only summon creatures that are the dungeon. Anything else doesn't work.
    Okay, thanks for the clarification.
    Yeah sure, monster cohorts are alright tho. Erynes for example are listed in the book as Monster cohorts of level 16, so at level 19 cohort, someone only has 3 class levels to play with.
    Is there something I'm missing, because I thought we were capped at level 17 cohorts?
    Are cohort HPs maxed out as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Okay, thanks for the clarification.


    Is there something I'm missing, because I thought we were capped at level 17 cohorts?
    Are cohort HPs maxed out as well?
    Just was thinking from the top of my head but in case of, there is such a thing either a prestige class or some capstones (wouldn't be surprised to be honest) that allows higher than level 17 cohorts, yeah most of the monster cohorts tend to have a decently high level.

    Cohorts hp are maxed indeed.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Question: if playing a gun-focused character, can we buy an advanced firearm, since weíre level 20?
    Chaotic Good, probably

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Quote Originally Posted by In4Dimensions View Post
    Question: if playing a gun-focused character, can we buy an advanced firearm, since weíre level 20?
    Yes you can.

    Almost forgot, if someone pick With this Sword (Ex) as their capstone, just let me know. I'm open to it but you just have to let me know.
    Last edited by Final; 2019-09-25 at 09:47 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    I made a list of my character's abilities, and even though it's really cool...like 75% of creatures we fight could easily get around my debuffs



    I might focus on a mesmerist instead....


    GM - would you allow me to homebrew a PoW version of the mesmerist?


    Replacing spells/cantrips with maneuvers (a-la rubato bard), making touch treatment into a more mundane sort of healing (like the paladin maybe?) And do something with mesmerist tricks...?

    Im not sure, but I would really love to play one if that's possible.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: The Quicksilver Hourglass [PF1]

    Do I need to track basic ammunition? Adamantine bullets and the like Iíd count, but for basic bullets, could I just pay, say 2000 gp and be treated as always having ammunition?

    Edit: also, could I have a version of this that buffs Fort saves instead?
    Spoiler
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    Crystal Mask of Mindarmor: A crystal mask of mindarmor grants the wearer a +4 insight bonus on all Will saving throws


    Edit 2: are custom races allowed?
    Last edited by In4Dimensions; 2019-09-25 at 12:31 PM.
    Chaotic Good, probably

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