The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    And good insurance for when it gets loose and is feeling peckish.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosaurus again?

    Seems like he should. Personally, I still think it would be fun for someone to try debuffing the Order and get a facefull of Allosaurus for their trouble, though presumably that could have already happened in the meeting hall fight if Rich had wanted to do it.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    I would have thought that a perfect fight for a dinosaur would have involved something that couldnít just fly up and blast it with a cone of sonic from out of reach.

    Greyview versus Bloodfeast does sound fascinating, though. The equivalent of a high-level druidís animal companion (I donít recall the stats for Beastmasters, so Iím going to assume thatís a similar thing) versus a dinosaur? Sounds like a fair fight to me.
    The only "Beastmaster" class I can find that isn't homebrew actually scales their animal companion better than an equal leveled druid. Well, at least for their first one, they get a second that scales at a rate that's still better than a ranger's a few levels in.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2019-09-23 at 01:28 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    The only "Beastmaster" class I can find that isn't homebrew actually scales their animal companion better than an equal leveled druid. Well, at least for their first one, they get a second that scales at a rate that's still better than a ranger's a few levels in.
    Eh, sorta. The Handle Animal prereq means you have to have five class levels before you can qualify, so the earliest you can have a level in the Beastmaster class with your sixth character level...which would put your animal companion two levels behind Druid 6. And the scaling is in fact one-to-one after that, just like it is for a druid. On the other hand, the primary animal companion stacks with other classes' animal companion features; so Druid 5/Beastmaster 1 would have an animal companion equivalent to Druid 9....


    All that said, the popular-and-convenient-though-largely-baseless guess for Oona is Beast Heart Adept rather than Beastmaster; mostly because it grants a non-animal companion (like a worg or yrthak) and because it appears in a book with Rich Burlew as one of its designers (Dungeonscape). And no; Beast Heart Adept says it doesn't stack with animal companion, so combining Beastmaster with Beast Heart Adept doesn't further this scenario much.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Eh, sorta. The Handle Animal prereq means you have to have five class levels before you can qualify, so the earliest you can have a level in the Beastmaster class with your sixth character level...which would put your animal companion two levels behind Druid 6. And the scaling is in fact one-to-one after that, just like it is for a druid. On the other hand, the primary animal companion stacks with other classes' animal companion features; so Druid 5/Beastmaster 1 would have an animal companion equivalent to Druid 9....
    An excellent refutation of a point I didn't make. I said the primary scales better than a druid (true, it's druid+3) and the secondary scales better than a ranger

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    An excellent refutation of a point I didn't make. I said the primary scales better than a druid (true, it's druid+3) and the secondary scales better than a ranger
    See, when I hear "scales" I'm first thinking about the benefit gained by adding another level onto it; where Beastmaster and Druid both increase effective druid level by one for each subsequent level. Same slope but the Beastmaster has a higher y-intercept, you might say.

    And then secondly I'm thinking about in proportion to character level, in which case being unable to take Beastmaster as early as you can Druid puts it behind. I'm pretty sure the "+3" is there precisely because of the inability to take Beastmaster that early, so even without boosting it'll come close to a druid if you take it as soon as possible (the prestige paladin variant does similar; the turning, lay on hands and special mount all operate three levels higher than for the base class paladin).


    Of course, by the time I got that far I thought a more thorough treatment might be more interesting to read
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    At Kraagor's Gate, in a climactic battle, Greyview the Warg takes a quick snack, swallowing whole a creature he assumes to be nothing but a small harmless lizard.

    And that's when Durkon reverses the Polymorph.
    "Nothing is impossible ... if it can be ... contrived."

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    My call: It gets transformed back by accident (like someone trying to dispel the order's buffs).

    It wanders off/ gets lost in the confusion. Yes, I know that alot of confusion is needed to lose a dinosaur, I believe the order is up to the task.

    It gets killed by some unrelated adventurers who are flabbergasted that they had a random encounter with a dinosaur in the arctic.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    At Kraagor's Gate, in a climactic battle, Greyview the Warg takes a quick snack, swallowing whole a creature he assumes to be nothing but a small harmless lizard.

    And that's when Durkon reverses the Polymorph.
    Imagine those hugs that deal 1d4 damage, but on several higher scales of magnitude
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    At Kraagor's Gate, in a climactic battle, Greyview the Warg takes a quick snack, swallowing whole a creature he assumes to be nothing but a small harmless lizard.

    And that's when Durkon reverses the Polymorph.
    See, the spell selection is different, but this outcome has been seen before.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    See, the spell selection is different, but this outcome has been seen before.
    Hmm...

    Does this trick work on inanimate objects, I wonder?

    Because then, to defeat the big bad evil villain, all you'd need to do is, like, find a big rock and transmute it into, like, a piece of candy.

    Then just get your enemy to eat it, and then a simple reverse of the spell - he's dead.

    I guess Xykon probably doesn't eat food. But this would work on any living enemies. Hey, how do we defeat Tarquin's conspiracy of evil? Well, Tarkers, how'd you like to have this nice refreshing margarita that's definitely not mixed with elephants transmorphed into tiny grains of salt?



    See, fantasy heroes? You just need to start thinking out of the box.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    Hmm...

    Does this trick work on inanimate objects, I wonder?

    Because then, to defeat the big bad evil villain, all you'd need to do is, like, find a big rock and transmute it into, like, a piece of candy.

    Then just get your enemy to eat it, and then a simple reverse of the spell - he's dead.

    I guess Xykon probably doesn't eat food. But this would work on any living enemies. Hey, how do we defeat Tarquin's conspiracy of evil? Well, Tarkers, how'd you like to have this nice refreshing margarita that's definitely not mixed with elephants transmorphed into tiny grains of salt?
    Even with living things (like the salt-Elephant trick) this seems like a gamebreaker, with the exception of the fact that I think the polymorph would be interrupted by the body of the victim. I'm guessing "titanium gullet" is an inherent feat possessed by most final bosses though.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Even with living things (like the salt-Elephant trick) this seems like a gamebreaker, with the exception of the fact that I think the polymorph would be interrupted by the body of the victim. I'm guessing "titanium gullet" is an inherent feat possessed by most final bosses though.
    It worked when Darth V pulled it off. It's just, y'know. Generally very hard to get someone to eat something specific in a fight.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    It worked when Darth V pulled it off. It's just, y'know. Generally very hard to get someone to eat something specific in a fight.
    ABD wasn't a major boss, just an Ancient Black Dragon seeking vengeance.
    (If Roy had been the one to kill the YABD, would the ABD have decided that the score was settled one way or another, or would she have hunted his body down and attacked relatives or something?)

    That's what...uh...
    I can't think of anything that would actually allow you to specifically do that aside from making the object fly and do its job. I guess no one thought of it then
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    ABD wasn't a major boss, just an Ancient Black Dragon seeking vengeance.
    The Ancient Black Dragon absolutely was a major boss. She was foreshadowed, she laid out her grievances pretty clearly, and there was a lot of plot wrapped up around her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    That's what...uh...
    I can't think of anything that would actually allow you to specifically do that aside from making the object fly and do its job. I guess no one thought of it then
    Gonna be honest, I don't know what you mean by this.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I donít remember any.
    When Gontor sneaked (snuck?) onto the shop, Bloodfeast bit him and overcame his DR, showing he was still had an Allosaurus stat block if not its firm.
    Just before the dining room fight, Bloodfeast gets a panel to remind us he was still with Belkar and hadn't been left on the ship.

    Also, it would've been very easy for Rich to have left out Bloodfeast at several points in the story if he didn't have plans for Bloodfeast later. Instead of Baleful Polymorph, he could've been Imprisoned, Plane Shifted, petrified etc. When they were all escaping, they could've left him (although rescuing Bloodfeast shows Belkar cares about creatures other than himself and his cat, so long as that creature fits his worldview of 'awesome=deserving to live'). When the rats invaded, or when Blackwing detonated the scroll, Bloodfeast could've been a victim.
    One thing I noticed in this latest book was reminders of running jokes that would be referenced later. Like Banjo being pulled out during the storm scene, so people who didn't know about Banjo would be able to follow the scene where they discuss Banjo as a tiebreaker God (which just thinking about it is giving me flashbacks to the state of the forum at the time..).

    So yeh, Bloodfeast will redinosaur at some point.

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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    So yeh, Bloodfeast will redinosaur at some point.
    This has inspired me to come up with a crazy theory...

    Bloodfeast never gets turned back into an allosaurus. Instead, he just gets polymorphed into something else, specifically whatever the MitD is. It all fits.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2019-09-29 at 02:59 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    This has inspired me to come up with a crazy theory...

    Bloodfeast never gets turned back into an allosaurus. Instead, he just gets polymorphed into something else, specifically whatever the MitD is. It all fits.
    I dunno, that sounds like Polymorph Any Object and I don't think anyone in-comic has ever used that (and Rich has stated in an article he doesn't like it). It probably resides with True Resurrection in the 'won't be available to derail the plot' bucket.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    That's what...uh...
    I can't think of anything that would actually allow you to specifically do that aside from making the object fly and do its job. I guess no one thought of it then
    Gonna be honest, I don't know what you mean by this.
    I think he's referring to the part about how it's very hard to get an opponent to eat something you offer during a fight.

    I contend that this is just a lack of creative strategizing. What you do is take a blue whale and polymorph it into a small polished pearl that pulsates with magical energy, then during the fight you loudly shout, "Oh no, don't let them get their hands on that object of great power that must be consumed orally to unlock its magic - it's so dangerous that no single being can be allowed to wield its power" before rolling it towards your enemy.

    Or, you sneak it into their food beforehand. Most folks have to eat something. You polymorph a black dragon into a grain of rice, then mix it in with their sushi rolls. Or, you mix it into their daily vitamins, to make sure they swallow it whole.


    Can you polymorph things into a gas? Because it occurs to me that there's not much your opponent can do to avoid inhaling an oxygen molecule.

    Incidentally, this is why Antman is theoretically the deadliest being in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin View Post
    An iridium elemental, no doubt.
    How would a telecom satellite be useful in a D&D fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    The head fake on Bloodfeast being possibly in the vampire fight was him sleeping in the bag of holding.
    That could also have been done because the Mechane may not be up there when they try to return. Well, it's only been about half a day (in-comic time) since they left it, so you wouldn't expect the crew to get antsy and fly away in that short of period. I'd expect Bandana could hold them at least that long. So probably just another headfake.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    I think he's referring to the part about how it's very hard to get an opponent to eat something you offer during a fight.

    I contend that this is just a lack of creative strategizing. What you do is take a blue whale and polymorph it into a small polished pearl that pulsates with magical energy, then during the fight you loudly shout, "Oh no, don't let them get their hands on that object of great power that must be consumed orally to unlock its magic - it's so dangerous that no single being can be allowed to wield its power" before rolling it towards your enemy.

    Or, you sneak it into their food beforehand. Most folks have to eat something. You polymorph a black dragon into a grain of rice, then mix it in with their sushi rolls. Or, you mix it into their daily vitamins, to make sure they swallow it whole.


    Can you polymorph things into a gas? Because it occurs to me that there's not much your opponent can do to avoid inhaling an oxygen molecule.

    Incidentally, this is why Antman is theoretically the deadliest being in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
    Two points:

    1) If your enemy fails that Sense Motive check, they don't deserve to be the final boss in the first place.

    2) If you snuck it into their food before the fight, then that's not in a fight, and also you might as well have just used poison, which isn't nearly as hard to get hold of as a polymorphed black dragon is.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Are we seriously discussing this as if it was a serious suggestion on how to murder final bosses?
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elanís Exception, ďWho wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?Ē. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peeleeís Ye Old Reminder).

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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    *shakes Magic 8 Ball*

    "Signs Point to Yes".

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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin View Post
    An iridium elemental, no doubt.
    How would a telecom satellite be useful in a D&D fight?
    Not the satellites, but that other global layer they're named after (or so I've always assumed), or rather the source of it, has been proven effective against dinosaurs.

    I'll admit it was a strained joke, if it can even be called one.
    Quote Originally Posted by godsflunky View Post
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin View Post
    Not the satellites, but that other global layer they're named after (or so I've always assumed), or rather the source of it, has been proven effective against dinosaurs.
    Actually, the satellites were named after the element because there were 77 of them in the constellation and it's element 77.
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    Default Re: Will Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator become an Allosourus again?

    Quote Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
    Actually, the satellites were named after the element because there were 77 of them in the constellation and it's element 77.
    Oh! That's cool.
    Last edited by Rollin; 2019-09-30 at 10:19 AM.

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