OOTS #1181 - The Discussion Thread

[JumboWheat01]

And there's our cute quota met so very easily.

[hroþila]

Well said.

Creepy stalker who tried to murder their ex for rejecting them is cute, so it's OK!

I don't think any of that was presented as being OK, given the reactions of the characters. That it was used for comedy doesn't mean that it was condoned, in the same way Xykon's murderous hijinks are often funny but never OK. It's not that it's OK, it's more that it's not something they can deal with at the moment.

[D.One]

Cute. Touching. Beautifully done. Loved it.

As a divorced father myself, I'm quite fond of seeing Kudzu's well being put first over the struggles beetween themselves. Thanks, Giant.

So, with both parents in place like this, I don't think Kudzu will be a cleric of either Thor or Loki. Odin, perhaps? Finding wisdom in the balance between opposites?

Also? This is what you get with opposing alignments but very high wisdom!

Father: Lawful Good Cleric of Thor
Mother: Chaotic Evil Cleric of Loki
Kudzu: True Neutral Druid, of course. He'll grow to know the extremes in alignment, and learn to reconcile them both, and will extend that even further to make peace with dwarves' most ancient and hated enemy: the trees. If his name isn't a clue, nothing more can be.

[Arathorne]

Cute. Touching. Beautifully done. Loved it.

As a divorced father myself, I'm quite fond of seeing Kudzu's well being put first over the struggles beetween themselves. Thanks, Giant.



Father: Lawful Good Cleric of Thor
Mother: Chaotic Evil Cleric of Loki
Kudzu: True Neutral Druid, of course. He'll grow to know the extremes in alignment, and learn to reconcile them both, and will extend that even further to make peace with dwaves' most ancient and hated enemy: the trees. If his name isn't a clue, nothing more can be.

Well stated and I fully agree on all points, having had kids and stepkids, (now all fully grown, one sadly already passed )

[I_of_Infinity]

How the last panel tends to work with our little-un:

I have Mummy! There's a Daddy over there... I want Daddy-cuddles... I have Daddy! There's a Mummy over there... I want Mummy-cuddles... I have Mummy! There's a Daddy over there... I want Daddy-cuddles...

[KorvinStarmast]

Father: Lawful Good Cleric of Thor
Mother: Chaotic Evil Cleric of Loki
Kudzu: True Neutral Druid, of course. He'll grow to know the extremes in alignment, and learn to reconcile them both, and will extend that even further to make peace with dwarves' most ancient and hated enemy: the trees. If his name isn't a clue, nothing more can be.

That would be a great outcome. (OK, I like to play druids, sue me! )

I have Mummy! There's a Daddy over there... I want Daddy-cuddles... I have Daddy! There's a Mummy over there... I want Mummy-cuddles... I have Mummy! There's a Daddy over there... I want Daddy-cuddles...

Yep, been in that cycle, it's great.

[drazen]

So much for Hilgya getting her comeuppance at the hands of Curly, as many on the forum thought would happen.

And we learn the dwarves have a Grand Arbiter. Does that imply they use mediation instead of courts/torts? Would it have applied to Hilgya's divorce as well, had her husband's clan not been in no position to contest it?

Also, the author must have had some insomnia. 3:41 AM... then again, the cat woke me up at that hour today as well.

(actually, given that he's almost all white, I just noticed the cat could play Mr. Scruffy in a live-action OOTS, except I don't know if Mr. Scruffy weighs 20 pounds.)

[Peelee]

I think this is the best resolution to the Hilgya-Kudzu-Durkon plot thread that I could have wanted. And it doesn't hurt that my little guy is roughly the same point in development. Hits me all the harder, I says!

... eh, this should be a purely "awww" scene, but Hilgya and the context behind her is just too much of a distraction. The team may have foregone seeing her dealt with at Durkon's wishes, but at an absolute bare minimum she should not have custody of her child. This was evident when she named him after an all consuming horror weed, and became all the moreso when she, y'know, murdered Durkon.

She doesn't deserve custody because of the way she named him? That doesn't strike you as a Miko-esque gross overreaction?

Also, she raised Durkon. He got better. How do you want the Order to deal with her, kill her and raise her? Strictly an eye for an eye? They're not judge, jury, and executioner. They're not meting out justice for every transgression they see. They have a mission, and that's what they're focused on. Hilgya can get her comeuppance in the afterlife, there's no reason for the Order to have to address every wrong they come across.

[hajo]

Yes, yes, awww, cute...
Plane of Earth

Assuming that Hilgya's plan to plane-shift works -
how&how long could someone survive on some other plane ?

I don't think there are farms, settlements etc. waiting out there...

[Schroeswald]

I was clearly correct in my picking of the next strips because I put a Hilgya wrap-up strip in there, ignore that I had it as 1182, I was correct.

[tigerusthegreat]

I love their barbs to each other at the end lol

They'll end up married in the end. They already got the spousal banter down.

[King of Nowhere]

not happy about that. hilgya is dangerous, she will ruin kudzu, and she will ruin durkon if durkon stays close to her.

my brother married a pshyco, and he tried hard to make it work, and she ruined his life. divorcing is the only good decision he made about it. and she was stilll not as bad as hilgya.

hilgya may be all protective of the baby, but that's another part of the problem. as a teacher, i've seen how parents with skewed moral priorities and strong protective attitudes for their children consistently ruin their children. they are the one who will keep justifying their sons even after they take up bullying or crime.

I've had to deal with enough hilgyas that I can't be happy about anything non-bad happening to her.

[Ornithologist]

Well said.

Creepy stalker who tried to murder their ex for rejecting them is cute, so it's OK!

I mean, you're not wrong. I think anyone who has seen a divorcing couple would take the other opinion though. It takes a high Wisdom to work with your ex rather than try to spite them long term for the sake of the kid(s). Also, it occurs to me that Sigdi's warning might still be in the back of her head. And as an unfortunate thought, as both of them are highly leveled adventuring priests a custody battle could very likely be to the death if they don't de-escalate now. And I would likely bet in a straight fight that Hilgya would win, mostly through using tactics favored by Loki. Also, She already proved willing to murder him, and we know Durkon would never stoop to her level.

This strip makes me think that Kudzu is going to get the best he can from the two of them, rather than just be a pawn to make the other suffer. I know in my divorce, my main worry was whether or not I would get to retain custody of my son. But, my ex surprised me and asked for 50% custody. So I mostly just got reminded that I get my son a very reasonable amount of time.

@tigerusthegreat - Yeah... They aren't going to be spending more than the bare minimum amount of time required by Kudzu together ever in the future. You don't marry the creepy stalker who tried to murdered you. Terrible/forced marriages are really bad for kids.

[Malloon]

Alright, [serious time]

This ended about as well as could be hoped for. Neither Hilgya or Durkon like each other, but they care for Kudzu. I doubt they'll ever truely be able to bury the hatchet, but they'll try for him. As such, he will eventually notice how his parents dislike each other, which will hurt and probably inform the person who he becomes, though not so much as if they were actively gunning for each other.

All in all, I can see the kid becoming True Neutral just to stay on good terms with both of his parents, though obviously him becoming Good or Evil makes for a more dramatic storytelling, should the Giant ever think about writing a sequel.

Of course, Hilgya might really screw the pooch and damage him like narcisistic parents tend to do in real life, in which case being on good terms with her is rather not an option. I hope not, and since being Evil is not the same as having a trait from the dark triad of personality disorders, I'd say it's definitely possible she can be a good, if Chaotic Evil parent. If she does, though, the ball's up in the air regarding what alignment he'll have. I'll not speculate on this possibility further, since while it doesn't break any of the rules regarding inappropriate topics, it makes me really sad.

[/serious time]

Can I just say how fabulous Durkon looks in his armour? I didn't notice before, but the zoom in panel 5 really shows off the detail he's gotten since the first page.

[danielxcutter]

Much daaawwww.

[happycrow]

Durkon - paying attention to the important things.

[KorvinStarmast]

not happy about that. hilgya is dangerous, she will ruin kudzu, and she will ruin durkon if durkon stays close to her.
{snip}
I've had to deal with enough hilgyas that I can't be happy about anything non-bad happening to her.

Fortunately, we are discussing a comic strip/graphic novel, not real life.
I think that Peelee has made a wise estimation: this strip is the wrap up of this book's Durkon/Hilgya piece.

Durkon will head back to the Mechane knowing that he has to save the world to save his son. That's extra motivation beyond his original commitment to the mission.
If that means he also saves someone who has some less than admirable attitudes, that's a small price to pay for (1) saving the world and (2) saving his son. As he said in the strip, they can work it out between each other or go to the Grand Arbiter.

(Huh, I hope they aren't playing Starcraft, I seem to recall the Arbiter as being a hard to deal with unit ... been a while)

[OverdrivePrime]

/sniff
That was delightful. More than any other story, the heroes of the Order of the Stick keep making me proud of them.

[Lheticus]

Dangit, I got something in my eye here. :')

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, I’m not happy about Hilgya retaining custody of Kudzu, but he will be safer with her than with Durkon. I just hope she doesn’t take him along for her next vendetta quest.

This does nicely answer my question from earlier—I’m guessing that this will probably be the last we see of Hilgya until the end. Hopefully the dwarves justice system will have a good way for them to work our equitable custody.

I love the banter of the penultimate panel, and, of course, that last panel is beautiful.

To me this feels like pretty much a close to the chapter. My guess (likely wrong, as always) is that we’re going to have maybe some good cliffhangers and then the book will close out.

[kiapet]

I'm actually really happy to have a story where two parents who are of completely incompatible temperament/morality learn to develop a good co-parenting relationship for the sake of their son. It's something that happens all the time in real life, but you don't see much in fiction.

Also, Kudzu is going to be one strange kid. Happy, but strange

[Gluteus_Maximus]

This feels a lot more wholesome to me than some others are saying. I detect a modicum of hope that Durkon does come back.

I'm fairly certain Loki's extreme ideology alone won't "ruin" Kudzu, and LG Durkon in his life definitely won't entirely "make him better," but there's good and bad influences in both.

[ripple]

Cute. Touching. Beautifully done. Loved it.

Agreed on all points. I just hope (as others have expressed) that this really does show Hilgya isn't going to be one-dimensional "hate my baby-daddy".
It sure looks positive on the face of it.

Father: Lawful Good Cleric of Thor
Mother: Chaotic Evil Cleric of Loki
Kudzu: True Neutral Druid, of course. He'll grow to know the extremes in alignment, and learn to reconcile them both, and will extend that even further to make peace with dwarves' most ancient and hated enemy: the trees. If his name isn't a clue, nothing more can be.

As someone who spent a lot of time in the American South while growing up...kudzu the vine covers the trees, strangles them, and cuts off their sunlight. Not exactly "making peace".
I'm hoping KudzuTheChild finds another line of work than living up to his namesake...

[littlebum2002]

As someone who spent a lot of time in the American South while growing up...kudzu the vine covers the trees, strangles them, and cuts off their sunlight. Not exactly "making peace".
I'm hoping KudzuTheChild finds another line of work than living up to his namesake...

That's just because Kudzu is an invasive species here. In Japan it's just another vine.

[skim172]

Well said.

Creepy stalker who tried to murder their ex for rejecting them is cute, so it's OK!

Eh, death somehow becomes less impactful in a world where resurrection is possible, controllable, and quite widespread. With her wealth and cleric abilities, Hilgya could've easily killed and then resurrected Durkon. I mean, she did.

Sidenote, I wonder how a legal system would deal with a murderer who subsequently resurrects her victim.

It's tough to judge a fantasy world by our frame of reference, when fundamental aspects of the universe are different. For example, dwarves know for certain that their gods exist, they interact with them regularly, have a fully formed understanding of their afterlife, and the stipulations that need to be met - leading to a society in which dying on the field of battle is not only viewed positively, but also is the only way they can avoid going to literal hell, which they know for sure exists.

I mean, that changes some things about a society, right? For instance, world peace would be the worst possible thing for the dwarves. If goblinoids didn't exist to provide a constant foe, the dwarves would likely become the world's major antagonists and the greatest threat to the Stick-world's stability, as they would be constantly provoking wars solely for the purpose of dying in them. Redcloak creating a stable, goblinoid nation that lived at peace with the other races poses an existential danger to the dwarves' eternal souls.

[Squire Doodad]

Help I had an emotion :D

I'm glad to see that while it is by no means a "everything is fixed, because PLOT!", there is room enough for Hilgya and Durkon to resolve what's happened. I don't know if the ending would be they get together, or if they stay apart, but the fact that the door isn't shut feels really meaningful.

leading to a society in which dying on the field of battle is not only viewed positively, but also is the only way they can avoid going to literal hell, which they know for sure exists.

Minor nitpick: dying in battle isn't the only way for Dwarves to avoid Hel (nor is it a surefire escape if they are Evil), it's just a general catch-all that is applicable to everyone. Someone who dies trying to save people from a mine and gets killed by gases, for one thing, would be fine.
You are right, I'm just pointing out that the definition is a little broader.

[Evil DM Mark3]

gwoo!

That is all.

[littlebum2002]

Eh, death somehow becomes less impactful in a world where resurrection is possible, controllable, and quite widespread. With her wealth and cleric abilities, Hilgya could've easily killed and then resurrected Durkon. I mean, she did.

As she correctly pointed out, her murdering him was much more easily rectified than him rejecting her. You can't fix heartbreak with a cleric spell.

Sidenote, I wonder how a legal system would deal with a murderer who subsequently resurrects her victim.

Probably like battery, but including financial compensation for the lost level.

[gerryq]

Alright, [serious time]
I'd say it's definitely possible she can be a good, if Chaotic Evil parent.

IF indeed that is possible! And I guess it probably is, given that we are in DnD Land - Rich's world is not intended to accurately simulate the real world, even if it has echoes at times.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that evil characters with more than a walk-on part tend to be Lawful Evil. And that makes a lot of sense; at least you can work with those guys, even if you have to watch your back. Tarquin will stab you without a twinge of remorse, but he won't stab you randomly against his own interests.

Chaotic Evil, on the other hand... well, taken to extremes it would be pure insanity, and Hilgya obviously does not go to those extremes.

Real people don't operate 100% in any quadrant; Hilgya is real enough that she will likely find some chaotic goodness in herself where Kudzu is concerned.

[MossyMeow]

That's just because Kudzu is an invasive species here. In Japan it's just another vine.

: What is this 'Japan' you speak of?

So...Kudzu will become an Azurite? Oh wait, he can't legally be a citizen because he doesn't have human blood...or DOES HE? No, I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Either way, he's still cute.