The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Weimann's Avatar

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    confused [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk?

    I was playing One Night Ultimate Werewolf with a few of my friends the other day. It's one of my favourite games, and they liked it well enough as well. We all had a good time, laughing at silly outcomes. But one of the more game savvy people, who's very versed in table top games and is an official MtG judge and thus thinks very analytically about mechanics, posed a question: what is the point of the Troublemaker?

    My first answer was just that she makes the game more chaotic and fun. He nodded, but replied that from a gameplay standpoint, if the Troublemaker is on the Village team, it seems like she's counterproductive to her side actually winning the game.

    And... well, I couldn't really answer that.

    No big deal came of it; we just changed her for another role (the Hunter I think). But the question stuck with me. Thinking on it myself, it also started questioning the Drunk's ability. Is there any tactical way of using those roles, or are they mainly there to accommodate a play style more focused on chaos and hilarious arguments than tactical play?
    Last edited by Weimann; 2019-09-27 at 02:17 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk

    They're there to sow doubt and discord, regardless of which team they're on. The troublemaker, for example, is important because they move cards around without looking at them after all the roles that gain information gain their information. Even if the troublemaker is 100% honest, they make things less reliable because all those people who have information should be less willing to give it honestly before the troublemaker makes their claim. For example, even if the troublemaker is honest, maybe that entices the oracle not to be if they are no longer on the side they started on.

    So yes, the troublemaker is counterproductive to their side winning the game...kind of. They're an additional point of doubt for both sides, which probably favors the wolves. However, I feel like the game is sort of balanced around this. Anecdotally, every time I've played without some of the 'lolrandom' roles or the 'you need to lie' roles, there's been too much information floating around for the wolves to get much done.
    Last edited by The Hellbug; 2019-09-27 at 02:26 PM.
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    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

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    Default Re: [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk

    You can think of them as a liability that the Village has to contend with, as well as a unique challenge and playstyle for the people who play them. I've also definitely pulled off (exactly once) a Troublemaker gambit where I lied about my swap and in doing so unmasked the Wolves. They were all too hasty to believe me, and so they jumped right on "oh, well I started as a wolf so that means the other person is the wolf!"

    Then I was all "Psych! I didn't swap them, but thanks for telling us you're a wolf."
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk

    I don't know the one night ultimate version, but many extended roles are usually created with more "fun" on the mind, rather than any semblance of balance.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk

    The role of the troublemaker is to expose people's identities.

    Let's say that I'm the troublemaker and I say that I switched you and person X. You know that you were the werewolf but now you're just a villager and have every reason to come out and say person X is a werewolf. In that way it's kinda like a double seer cause it can expose 2 people. It is more unsure than the seer cause you don't see the individual card. But I think that the tradeoff is worth it.

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    Default Re: [One Night Ultimate Werewolf] What Is the Point of the Troublemaker and the Drunk

    The point of the troublemaker is exactly what it says on the tin; they make trouble.
    The game is, generally speaking, more fun with the troublemaker causing an extra bit of uncertainty. He might not be optimal for the villagers from a gameplay perspective, but he makes the game more fun. Which is the point of a game, especially a low-stakes party game like ONUW.
    However, if it's all that important that everyone make a positive contribution to their team, keep in mind that switching the werewolves switches their allegiance. If a werewolf is switched - or thinks they've been switched - their best play is to turn in their teammates.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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