The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Why is healing so limited in most systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    I think you have that backwards. The fights in SAO where bang, dead? No tension. When they actually had to watch their health bars, there was tension.

    When you play oldschool, "anything could be instantly fatal at any time", you get paranoia, but not the same sense of dread as when you've got 12 rounds of oxygen left, 10 rounds of rescues to make, and foes to fight, all with that same breath.



    Elves have gender? Orientation? Heh. Next, you're gonna try and convince me that dwarves and Illithid have genders and orientations, too.
    I played doom 1 and 2 and essentially I got worried most when I was against things that could kill me fast such as a cyberdemon or groups of heavy weapon dudes.(you were mentioning a show so I might as well mention another thing completely unrelated to rpgs)
    Trudging through masses of imps and zombiemen never stressed me near as much even if they actually did attrition.
    Likewise in dnd I never got worried in fights where opponents dealt low damage or could simply not hit us but did cost resources to kill but in fights where opponents could kill us in a bunch of seconds I got way more worried (which is why 4 titans encounters and other similar deadly encounters are now more or less the norm).

    Running out of hp creates tension mostly when you are at low enough hp for making enemies have damage that is high in relative to your new hp total and that basically means you needed to wait before having the full tension you could have obtained by simply having harder hitting opponents that could kill you fast from the start.
    Last edited by noob; 2019-09-29 at 03:01 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Why is healing so limited in most systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    I played doom 1 and 2 and essentially I got worried most when I was against things that could kill me fast such as a cyberdemon or groups of heavy weapon dudes.(you were mentioning a show so I might as well mention another thing completely unrelated to rpgs)
    Trudging through masses of imps and zombiemen never stressed me near as much even if they actually did attrition.
    Likewise in dnd I never got worried in fights where opponents dealt low damage or could simply not hit us but did cost resources to kill but in fights where opponents could kill us in a bunch of seconds I got way more worried (which is why 4 titans encounters and other similar deadly encounters are now more or less the norm).

    Running out of hp creates tension mostly when you are at low enough hp for making enemies have damage that is high in relative to your new hp total and that basically means you needed to wait before having the full tension you could have obtained by simply having harder hitting opponents that could kill you fast from the start.
    I I guess it's a mindset thing. I appreciate subtler tension, that grows over the course of the session (or longer, like over the course of the campaign). If you cannot feel that tension, then, well, of course you cannot appreciate it.

    Doom absolutely had that attrition tension. Of course, I wasn't good enough at that style of game to win "fair", I had to use the game save. And I reloaded "Imp" / attrition battles far more often ( / far more times) than I did "boss fights".
    Last edited by Quertus; 2019-10-01 at 10:03 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Why is healing so limited in most systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    I I guess it's a mindset thing. I appreciate subtler tension, that grows over the course of the session (or longer, like over the course of the campaign). If you cannot feel that tension, then, well, of course you cannot appreciate it.

    Doom absolutely had that attrition tension. Of course, I wasn't good enough at that style of game to win "fair", I had to use the game save. And I reloaded "Imp" / attrition battles far more often ( / far more times) than I did "boss fights".
    Both are valid types of tension - knowing that a mistake can kill you, and the tension from getting continually closer to the edge.

    The only problem is that, frequently, with the second type the "system" (including GM) doesn't make good on the threat, and that type of threat is often easier to mitigate by retreating when low on resources.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017

    Default Re: Why is healing so limited in most systems?

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    I played doom 1 and 2 and essentially I got worried most when I was against things that could kill me fast such as a cyberdemon or groups of heavy weapon dudes.(you were mentioning a show so I might as well mention another thing completely unrelated to rpgs)
    Trudging through masses of imps and zombiemen never stressed me near as much even if they actually did attrition.
    Likewise in dnd I never got worried in fights where opponents dealt low damage or could simply not hit us but did cost resources to kill but in fights where opponents could kill us in a bunch of seconds I got way more worried (which is why 4 titans encounters and other similar deadly encounters are now more or less the norm).
    One of the reasons other people might tend to prefer attrition over "bang, your dead" threats is one of permanence. I thoroughlly agree that things that can take you out fast is preferable in a video game where the reload button is just a click away (regardless of how much that gives you - I prefer my XCOM ironman after all), but when TPK's come fast and regularly, you might find your party disbanding rather than hunkering down.

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