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2019-10-15, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Submitted. Fortunately (or unfortunately, really), I came up with an even dumber idea than the dumb idea I originally had.
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2019-10-15, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Pencils down!
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-15, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Elec Tri
Build the first!
Originally Posted by Elec TriLast edited by Zaq; 2019-10-15 at 06:49 PM.
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2019-10-15, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Feth Her
Build the second!
Originally Posted by Feth Her
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2019-10-15, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Flaylinn
Build the third!
Originally Posted by Flaylinn
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2019-10-15, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Grace
Build the fourth!
Originally Posted by Grace
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2019-10-15, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Shade
Build the fifth!
Originally Posted by Shade
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2019-10-15, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Soultob
Last but not least, build the sixth!
Originally Posted by Soultob
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2019-10-15, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Man, sorry for the lack of witty commentary this time. You know what happens when you make someone super busy with school and then give them a week where they only have to care about their day job? No, don't be stupid, of course you don't get a relaxing week of downtime—you get an even more intense week where you've scheduled in all the stuff you've been denying yourself for the whole term!
Anyway, I gotta run. If anyone wants to make a table, they'd have my gratitude.
Release... the judges!In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-15, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Everybody go look up ordered chaos from fiendish codex. Incarnum radiance ×2? Do you get 2 incarnum weapons?
What's the caster level on detect opposition? Is it enough to obtain a familiar?
The answers to these questions and zero time to participate really held back my entry
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2019-10-15, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
i was going to do incarnate weapon and soul knife, but couldn't focus enough on it to finish it off, might have gone down part of that rabbit hole w/ you dare
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2019-10-16, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-16, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
- Location
- Massa, Italy
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
I know about ordered chaos but the incarnate put his alignment among the most important of the things and using ordered chaos to gain another use of incarnum radiance (one which yes can be good but not so much) it seems so much inelegant , i have seen that trick in the round of iron chef that i judged but yes can be good but why should i do that if i want to incarnate an alignment?
Finally my computer is without any problem!
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2019-10-16, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
I was pondering a Changeling Incarnate 3 / Factotum 1 / Binder 1 / Chameleon 1 by the name of Jacko... but I couldn't bring the everchanging being to fruition.
A pity, but I hope that one day I'll get the chance to give the build a try in a real game.
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2019-10-17, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Everyone’s sick of hearing about it, but I looooved my old binder/incarnate/chameleon build (that I did bring to a real game). Factotum doesn’t add much to such a build, though.
I do highly, highly recommend playing such a thing if you ever get the chance. (Word of advice: make your cheat sheets ahead of time.)In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-17, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Naah, not me... Talk about it all you like
I had to meet the Disguise ranks requirement somehow Rogue or PsyRog were another options I considered (in a real game, if I could convince the DM to allow me to use the Changeling Rogue sub level on a PsyRog, I'd most likely go with that).
As has my previous entry for this challenge shown, I never leave house without my cheat sheets
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2019-10-17, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
I used City Slicker to get Disguise as a class skill.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-18, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
I was gonna make one using the EVIL halfling race from BoVD. Alas, halfing has totemist substitution levels, not incarnate substitution levels.
Then I thought about tiefling incarnate with substitution levels, then tiefling incarnate with substitution levels combined with tiefling paragon levels. Too much tiefling, not enough incarnate.
Finally I thought about divine bard 2, w/gnome bard substitution levels, incarnate 3, w/gnome substitution levels, ardent 1 w/mantle ACF. Again, not enough incarnate, though I may build this one myself for laughs some day.
And really, Real Life wasn't leaving me any time for a build anyways. I'm looking forward to seeing our results!
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2019-10-18, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Do we have any judging volunteers yet?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-22, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Hey everyone! Just a reminder that this contest exists and still needs one or more judges. Anyone game?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-22, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2019-10-27, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
So, I've found some time to judge.
Before I start, there's two things I want to share. First, a quick overview of my method: I start all categories at a base score of 3/5, and adjust up or down based on the build in increments of half a point. The originality category should speak for itself. For power, a build needs to be useful both in and out of combat to get a perfect 5/5. In elegance I penalize most build mistakes, with my assumption that everything works as written in the power category ( I might make exceptions for this if I encounter a build that seems nonfunctional). For use of SI, I look at both how many levels in the SI you took and how well you're using what the class gives, which also brings me to the second thing I want to mention.
The incarnate's main thing is soulmelds. It has class features that make your soulmelds better, or that that allow you to quickly swap them out. However, soulmelds can also be acquired through a feat, as can chakra's and even essentia. The thing that makes the incarnate truly unique from someone just taking shape soulmeld twice is that the class can swap out its soulmelds daily, or even on-the-spot if you have 4 levels in incarnate. So for a good score in Use of SI, I expect a build to show that they are taking this modularity into account. Even just showing some alternate soulmeld lay-outs for non-combat days is fine in this regard, but if you only show your 'punching things layout' I can't judge your non-combat performance, even though I know you could swap to a different set of soulmelds.
Anyway, having said all that, lets get some judging done.
Spoiler: Elec Tri 14/20
Originality
Applying ‘lesser’ to a planetouched race to get a fairly powerful race at LA+0 is fairly well known trick. On the other hand, I haven’t seen the mechanatrix before so that evens out any originality penalty for taking a lesser planetouched race.
3/5
Power
You’re a defensive power-house with high AC and the ability to heal yourself back up to full HP between fights without expending resources(+0.5). Offensively you’re just okay. Doing 5-6d6 of damage isn’t bad, but if you run into something the resists or is immune to electricity (or worse, heals from it like you do) you’ve got a problem.
Out of combat, you've got some knowledge skills to help out, but that's it.
3.5/5
Elegance
Your build seems fully legal, and the combination of the lightning gauntlets with your racial ability gets the healing required for a HP-tanking character in an elegant manner(+0.5).
3.5/5
Use of SI
You’re a full incarnate and you do stuff with soul-melds. However, you seem to need most, if not all of your soulmelds for your combat set-up, leaving little room for the utility that being able to re-shape soulmelds daily gives you.
4/5
Spoiler: Feth Her 10/20
Originality
Sharing soulmelds to create a menagerie of upgraded creatures is quite the interesting concept (+1). Doubling up on dissolving spittle through share soulmeld is a fairly obvious trick, however (-0.5).
3.5/5
Power
You‘ve got quite the damage output with your flock of spitting familiars(+1).
Unfortunately, you yourself are the weakest link in this line-up. Your AC is fairly low in your hybrid form (and you don’t want to be in sparrow form because its con of 10 causes all your soulmelds to unshape: “For all meldshaping characters, your Constitution score determines the maximum number of soulmelds you can have shaped at any one time”). In hybrid form you’re also fairly slow, meaning you need to run or double move if you want to get the bonus from expeditious dodge. Your companions are also hampered by your lack of mobility as they need to stay within 5 feet of you to benefit from your soulmelds. This means you’re also a very obvious target for some AoE spells. A single fireball could really ruin your day(-1).
All that having been said, your spells and animal companions do provide you with some neat utility. (+0.5)
3.5/5
Elegance
The Arcane hunter explicitly requires you to be a ranger, so you can’t take it on a druid (-0.5). Share soulmeld cannot be taken multiple times(-1). I also don’t see why you get two feats at level 1 (-0.5). Lastly, using animal friendship is very iffy as well, since it isn’t on the 3.5 druid spell list (and though the spell itself might not ‘officially’ have been replaced between editions, the spell list very much has been) (-0.5).
1/5
Use of SI
You’ve got 4 levels in incarnate, but your built doesn’t really feel like one. The core of your build could be replicated by simply taking the shape soulmeld feat twice and bonus essential once to get the soulspark familiar and spittle. The tricks that make these abilities shine for you are coming from the druid and sorcerer.
2/5
Spoiler: Flaylin 16/20
Originality
You’re an extraplanar toad chucking flails at people that, by some quirk of the rules, returns to your hand automatically. Sure, have some originality points for that :P (+1)
4/5
Power
Your damage isn’t particularly high, breaking about even with, for example, the dissolving spittle soulmeld, though you’ve got a high enough to-hit that you should have a decent chance to hit most things. Your AC is good and your saves are decent , but you don’t have that much HP.
Your real power lies in the versatility of your soulmelds, however. The set you get from your feats gives you decent spot and listen scores and good mobility. You’ve got a soulmeld slot free so you can adapt to different situations without compromising your core combat style(+1).
4/5
Elegance
It’s all legal.
3/5
Use of SI
This build plays to the strengths of the incarnate by making sure you have flexible soul-meld slots in addition to your daily needs for combat. There isn’t really more I could ask from this class.
5/5
Spoiler: Grace, Soul Warden 11.5/20
Originality
Doubling up on dissolving spittle through share soulmeld is a fairly obvious trick(-0.5).
2.5/5
Power
You’ve got decent offensive power by doubling up dissolving spittle with your familiar and through astral constructs, but your to-hit is bad, hampering how much use you'll really get out of that attack (+0.5).
Your defences, however, seem to be terrible. As far as I can tell, you’ve got an AC of 10 (12 against evil creatures). Your HP isn’t bad for a d6-hit die class, but that doesn’t mean it’s objectively good (for comparison, a 14-con barbarian will have on average at least 56 HP to your 46), so your swap-in to take a hit for an ally is a trick you shouldn’t repeat too often. Spell resistance is nice, but it won’t stop everything, and it doesn’t stop anyone trying to shoot you full of arrows(-1).
2.5/5
Elegance
Your psycarnum infusion+azure talent trick is rather DM dependent. You seem to assume that you can always expend the PP gained this way first. Some DM’s I know would indeed allow you to do that. Others would rule that, once the feat empties out again, you lose powerpoints equal to what the feat first gained you, meaning that this trick would only really work once you’re down to 0 PP (-0.5).
2.5/5
Use of SI
You’ve got 3 levels in incarnate, which unfortunately means you miss out on the ability to swap around a soul-meld once a day, which in turn hurts your modularity a bit.You can only really swap to your investigation or social modes if you’re fairly certain you won’t have to do any fighting.Your ability to summon an astral construct does alleviate this issue a bit though.You also show different soul-meld lay-outs for different situations, showcasing the incarnate's versatility.
4/5
Spoiler: Shade 12/20
Originality
For good or ill, this build doesn’t really stand out on this front.Going Tiefling racial substitution is interesting(+1), but using changeling racial emulation to get there is a fairlycommonwell-known trick(-0.5).
3.5/5
Power
Offensively you’re not very impressive, and your defences are bad, though you’ve got some ways of disengaging from combat at least (-0.5).
Skill-wise, whoever, you’ve got very good skills for both social and stealth, and the ability to take 10 should avoid botched social rolls, so while the combat pillar might be problematic, you’re good at both the social and exploration side of things (+1).
3.5/5
Elegance
So, here’s a question for you. If a feature says you get more uses of an ability it assumes you already have, and you don’t have that ability, do you get that ability? I’m inclined to penalize you for this way of trying to acquire the Tiefling’s darkness ability, but I’m quite willing to hear a good argument here (-0.5).
The only poison expert feat I could find was in complete scoundrel, and it requires the ‘poison use’ class feature,which you don't have (-0.5).
2/5
Use of SI
You’ve got 3 levels in the SI, and you seem to be making particularly good use of the alternate class features you’re getting. Your general soul-meld selection is quite narrow, however, and could have been emulated using a feat or two, though the essentia requirement would be trickier.
3/5
Spoiler: Soultob 11/20
Originality
Capping a build off with a martial initiator might not be the oldest trick in the book, but it’d be the first trick if I ever got around to writing an e6 optimization handbook. These classes are a fairly obvious pick for some extra power (-0.5).
That having been said, an orc melee combatant is an odd and interesting way to go with incarnate (+1)
3.5/5
Power
You have passable defences and decent offence between your own charges and those of your allies(+0.5).
As far as I can tell you really lack in the non-combat pillars though(-1).
2.5/5
Elegance
This build is completely legal. Not much else to add here.
3/5
Use of SI
This build doesn’t really feel like an incarnate despite having 5 levels in the class. You could have done just about anything you do here better with a straight warblade with a couple of feats to pick up the necrocarnum circlet and soulspark familiar.
2/5
Right, I think that's it.
*looks over builds one more time*
*finally gets the name of the third build*
@zaq, can I disqualify a built for including a horribly excessive and painful pun as its name?Last edited by DeTess; 2019-11-04 at 04:09 AM.
Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2019-10-27, 08:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Puns are the best. And 100% of the builds this round seem to have had SOME kind of wordplay in the name, so I think we’re good on that front!
Thank you very much for your judging efforts, DeTess!In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-27, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- A Sauna in Hell
- Gender
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2019-10-27, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2019-10-27, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- A Sauna in Hell
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Nah, just for the sake of being able to do literally everything while having zero magic items.
Actually, I think some of those builds have a pretty small number of unoccupied chakras. Might even be a problem to consider. I think in an actual E6 game, meldshapers would be slotless by the 30th epic feat, at most.
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2019-10-27, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2019-10-27, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Also, shaping a meld doesn’t conflict with an item. Only binding a meld conflicts with an item.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-10-27, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
Just an FYI to Zaq et al, that I intend to judge this round, but I'm fully booked until early November, so if you plan on moving ahead to the next round by then, defnitely don't wait up...
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2019-10-27, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- A Sauna in Hell
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XX)
That's true, I guess, and the E6 restrictions do leave the bigger chakras free, unfortunately.
But the christmas tree effect would definitely be beautiful, especially if the DM made a capstone feat for meldshapers like the Fighter feat and gave them the ability to take Double Chakra earlier.