Results 31 to 60 of 95
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2019-10-06, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Bamako
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I'd say that the ability to swim is only light lightly correlated with the presence of water, but strongly correlated with the presence of publicly accessible pools. This based on living for over a decade in Africa where according to a lot of people in this thread swimming should be skill possessed by many (living close to the coast or large rivers) but in fact very few possessed it, including fishermen, and those that possessed it had learned it in pools.
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2019-10-06, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Years ago, I got a Keeshond. Since they were bred to be barge dogs, I assumed we’d have fun playing in the water with him
We took him to the lake, but he would not go in the water. We eventually realized that barge dogs are bred to stay on the barge.
Similarly, a sailor is supposed to stay on the ship.
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2019-10-07, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
What regions did you check? The anglophone internet tends to prioritize history from certain regions (Europe, especially western Europe, especially England proper). This doesn't extend out particularly well to the rest of the globe, and if you look at the regional population distribution estimates by era Europe has never really had a particularly large population. Probably because it's really not that large a land area, and the more northern areas have pretty wintery climates that don't really support large populations. There's a reason Sweden isn't exactly rich is large metropoli.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-10-07, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- FL
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Well my group keeps a suspicious eye on dwarves. They are only slightly more trustworthy than the completely untrustworthy halflings and their dirty halfing lychanthropy. Ugh. Halflings.
I’m guessing a joke just like the vague anti halfings mentality my party has now due to multiple bad experiences with halfings.
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2019-10-10, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
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2019-10-10, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
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2019-10-11, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Denmark
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
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2019-10-11, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I wonder how influential they were. I mean, every gaming nerd *I* knew at the time read at least the original trilogy, but do they have long-lasting influence (such that a reference to dwarves not swimming in them could have lasting influence)? I guess I really don't know.
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2019-10-12, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I suspect its a combination of dwarves being traditionally mountainous people and liking to wear heavy armour in most fiction. Combine not having any reason to know how to swim, with wearing armour that makes it really hard to swim and you have dwarves that don't (rather than can't) swim.
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2019-10-12, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Denmark
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
If I had to guess, I'd say they were hugely influential. Both good and bad. Dragonlance is the primary driver behind my enduring revulsion towards dragons. It's also the driver behind my attempts at making many races more than they are in the Monster Manual - be it minotaurs, gnolls, centaurs, whatever.
Simply because so many aging gamers read those books, I think it has seeped into most everything since then.
What's more, I think since Dragonlance - along with Stephen King and Anne Rice - used up my tolerance for bad litterature, they're the reason I never read a lot of other things .. Twilight, for instance. I read Game of Thrones, but I did that out of spite. I realised in book one it was utter crap (sorry fans), and only read on because a friend told me 'you cannot judge the series on just the one book'. So I read the first five, all that were out at the time - and it's still ... very, very bad.
The tv show is infinitely better, and even that is only good at times. Specifically, whenever Tyrion is on-screen.
This is off topic. Sorry. Please don't let me derail the thread.
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2019-10-12, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Interestingly it was Game of Thrones that killed the dragon hype for me, combined with an interesting note in the Keltia rulebook about how it uses dragons as symbols rather than creatures. I now find them too overdone, I'd much rather have an interesting take on humanoids or include demons than let a dragon anywhere near my games (Wyverns are allowed though, because the D&D wyvern had enough differences to make them just cool enough in their own right). Although A Song of Ice and Fire is also one of the series that pushed me towards human-only settings (Fullmetal Alchemist being another big influence on that).
Interestingly my view of A Song of Ice and Fire is opposite to yours, I can't stand the show (partially because of things like making Tyrion nicer and having to simplify things) but find the books to reach alright at times.
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2019-10-13, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- 30.2672° N, 97.7431° W
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I would imagine that living underground, there is a dearth of oceans/rivers/lakes/swimming pools in which to learn the skill.
"Sleeping late might not be a virtue, but it sure aint no vice. The old saw about the early bird and the worm just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."
- L. Long
I think, therefore I get really, really annoyed at people who won't.
"A plucky band of renegade short-order cooks fighting the Empire with the power of cheap, delicious food and a side order of whup-ass."
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2019-10-13, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Right behind you!
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
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2019-10-13, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
- Location
- Tennessee
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
This is where I first encountered the idea, and I even suspect this series is indeed the origin of the concept. (And in fact, IIRC the idea occurs in a much earlier novel in the series, quite possibly even the first book. The dwarf character is always nervous about this, and avoids boats, which is a recurring character trait.)
Though one might mention that in The Hobbit (novel, not film), a significant moment in Mirkwood occurs when Bombur falls into the Enchanted River and sinks, barely grabbing on to a hastily thrown rope. Although the text never states that he sinks because he’s a dwarf (it could be just his wet clothes), it might have inspired the idea of “sinking dwarves.”
Either way, I don’t think it really began in D&D (and isn’t officially a part of it), but came from outside the game.“New rule! DON’T PICK UP THE EVIL NECROSTICK!”— One of my teen players.
So of course, one of the others immediately did.
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2019-10-14, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Hastings, MN
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I thought it was from Dwarf Fortress. Something to do with undead carps or something?
"Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."
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2019-10-18, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2019
- Location
- Florida
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Water flows downward, so it's more the exception to have caves filled with air than water.
Maybe one of the favorite pastimes of dwarfs is to relax at the under-beach, soaking up the dark-sun, with a nice room-temperature koruna™ beer? Maybe enjoy a game of volley-axe, or do some shadow-surfing.
Reference is definitely too new for that. Also, DF dwarfs can swim (even untrained), it's just a matter of finding water without high CR monsters in it (like carp).
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2019-10-18, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Under this assumption dwarves would likely make very good swimmers. Or, at least, they have this particular advantage.
Assuming dwarf physiology is similar to humans, their dimensions would give them huge lung capacity relative to their body size. This is even backed up in recent editions of D&D, where they get a bonus to CON, which determines (among other things) how long one can hold their breath.
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2019-10-18, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
To my memory, Flint was afraid of the open water and boats because of a traumatic incident as a child involving a drowning. I don't recall it being a racial trait, despite being basically cited as one in the current PHB, though my memory is far from perfect. It wouldn't be the first example of a character trait being turned into a racial trait in later fantasy media.
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2019-10-19, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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2019-10-21, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
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2019-10-21, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- The Old West
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Which makes sense in a psuedo-medieval setting where dwarves very much stick to the mountains. But in context of D&D it doesn't really make sense. Just like most characters can be assumed to be literate in at least their native tongue, it seems to be assumed everyone else has at least a decent chance of swimming. Which makes the houserule so odd in retrospect. I can only remember one time it came up prominently (a two player game in which the elf had to push a raft carrying the dwarf across a slow part of a river), but I actively elected to ignore the idea myself later. It's only years after I've come to realize that it wasn't some holdover from a particular edition.
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E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
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2019-10-21, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Australia
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2019-10-22, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Hastings, MN
- Gender
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2019-10-22, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
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2019-10-22, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I don't think it's a matter of dwarves can't swim in that they're incapable so much as it's a matter of dwarves can't swim in that those dwarves who know how are so vanishingly rare as to not be noteworthy. People that live on and under inland mountains and tend toward wearing and carrying heavy gear have little reason to learn to swim and serious impedements when they find the need suddenly.
FWIW, in 3.5 the stormwrack supplement introduced a dwarven subrace that live in coastal mountains and seaside cliffs and have a strong sailing tradition. IIRC, they get some racial bonuses on swimming.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
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2019-10-27, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
dwarves have negative buoyancy due to their compact nature and bone density. THIS IS KNOWN!
May I borrow some bat guano? It's for a spell...
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2019-10-27, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Cippa's River Meadow
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
During the Age of Sail, most Royal Navy sailors couldn't swim, simply because being able to swim meant you just prolonged the inevitable of drowning at sea, miles away from any land.
That said, sources dodn't mentioned whether the aforementioned sailors were volunteers or pressganged urban poor and other caught unfortunates, who wouldn't be expected to be able to swim.
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2019-10-27, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
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2019-10-28, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
I assume you're talking about the British Royal Navy? An island with a cold current pointed basically right at it, with an institutional culture that reflects this? Because that's a good example of exactly my point regarding expected swimming skill varying highly by region.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-10-28, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Cippa's River Meadow
- Gender
Re: "Dwarves can't swim" where did this come from?
Oops, sorry, yes. I keep on forgetting there's more than one Royal Navy.
However you're right and I concede the point. That said, I was under the impression that the Gulf Stream warmed the British Isles, making them far more inhabitable than their latitude would normally permit.