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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    I am curious. Slyph gain Sorcerer casting based off HD. So say I do ECL 8//Bard 7 as my build. The characters overall HD would be 7 HD total so would that effect her spell casting?

    Note I am probably not gonna go Bard, but thats a good simple class to use as an example.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    was the point buy under 3.5 or under PF ?: it makes a difference..
    looking at a slayer//swordsage
    edit
    WIP character
    Last edited by samduke; 2019-10-08 at 04:34 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Withdrawing interest. The presented model for building a character is confusing and punitive for anyone choosing a race with few hitdice if you wish to play a spell casting class.

    If the party has an average level of six and someone wants to be a goblin shaman they can only ever be a first level caster, their save dcs for spells are irrelevant and they cant really be a shaman in anything more than name.

    Further this would promote a pretty large gap between different characters in terms of effective level depending on what sort of monster you choose.

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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Levels are going to vary quite wildly with this gestalt rule. If you focus on one class instead of multiple and play a non-LA race, you'll be much higher level. Gestalt does not make up for that. It seems rather ill-suited for a monster game.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    Pre-errata Water Devotion is fine by me.

    Whatever method you choose for TU is fine, just remember the primary track is reserved for the monstrous side of your build. I think your best option could be an ECL 7 creature // ESoZ 7 // Cleric 3 (21k+22k+5k= 48k XP spent and 2k to spare.
    I've looked through the playable creatures (those without LA - in the ECL 7 range, but none of them with 5 or more HD providing full BAB are small enough to use Elemental Merge with a medium elemental. So Yak Folk infiltrator warrior still appears to be the way to go.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by redfeline View Post
    Just to be clear, I pay 1k for a track 2. After that each track gets 49k/2 exp?

    What sort of level adjustment would you give a pathfinder quickling?
    After you spend 1k, you allocate the remaining 49k as you wish between both tracks (but the 2nd can't exceed the 1st in ECL).

    Pf Quickling at +4 LA.

    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeMonsters View Post
    I am curious. Slyph gain Sorcerer casting based off HD. So say I do ECL 8//Bard 7 as my build. The characters overall HD would be 7 HD total so would that effect her spell casting?

    Note I am probably not gonna go Bard, but thats a good simple class to use as an example.
    Sylph grants RHD+4 levels worth of sorcerer, in this case 7. With 7 class levels (of any class) you can enjoy your CL 7 without going over the limit set by HD, but a PrC that would advance sorcerer spellcasting wouldn't increase CL until you gain an eighth HD

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    was the point buy under 3.5 or under PF ?: it makes a difference..
    looking at a slayer//swordsage
    edit
    WIP character
    I didn't even remember there was a difference, sticking with 3.5.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    This update includes myconids and lists a +6 for the sovereign.
    Huh! Had no idea that both "errata" and "updates" would exist. Guess I'm too used to 4e. Wow, that update seriously tanks the Sovereign, and not just because of the LA. It loses 36 skill points and has a harder time fitting into dungeon spaces. I think I'll focus on the lycanthrope for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    I'm familiar with the threads, and likely to consult them for reference if necessary; though most of the monsters without listed LA are that way for good reason, some can be given leeway.
    So, the thread assigned both natural and afflicted Lycanthropes a +1, with discussion starting on this page. What do you think?
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    MindFlayer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post

    Sylph grants RHD+4 levels worth of sorcerer, in this case 7. With 7 class levels (of any class) you can enjoy your CL 7 without going over the limit set by HD, but a PrC that would advance sorcerer spellcasting wouldn't increase CL until you gain an eighth HD
    Not to argue but the book says the Slpyhs Hit Dice which is what I was thinking. RHD limitations are really rough for monsters, and the race actually does progress 4-9 HD, so could I buy the slyph at a higher cost?
    But if I took Sorcerer as my second path.. would my spells known and spell slots per day stack?

    I'll keep this pinned under maybe.
    I could always go Petal with 10 levels of Sorcerer if I want higher casting.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    okay on PB,

    on the monster aspect, just to clarify this is acceptable for a monster
    I am using a template to go from race X to monstrous humanoid
    if not I will look at other monster race options

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Will it be possible to add new gestalt "tracks" after play begins?
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    @Sahigu and @Herebemonsters

    What is the tone you're shooting for in the game? I know that a key theme that was mentioned is going to be the fact that the PCs don't fit in and can't just walk into town but beyond that... are you looking for misunderstood heroes? Neutralish monsters just trying to make their way in the world? Rampaging evil out for revenge against society?

    @Sahigu
    Sources lists "WotC official books for 3.5" does that potentially include dragon magazine materials? I've got a couple ideas rolling around in my head, one of which is a bruiser type that I need to flesh out a bit but the bastard halfbreed type (Half minotaur or Half Ogre) is far more appealing to me than the fullbloods. As a tie in to the earlier question, I'm hoping that alignments are not restricted for monster types? If we aren't playing an evil campaign then it will be easier to play a Neutral Hungry half ogre than evil, lol.

    What type of an optimization level are you looking for? As a melee type should I be specifically looking for ways to be sure that I have access to flight, fast healing etc or build for concept?
    I am a big fan of Path of War which is the Pathfinder version of Tome of Battle Book of 9 Swords, just wanted to be sure that was an option before I invest too much time in it.
    A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Current idea seed:
    Taking advantage of the adjusted ECL of 8 based on the LA Adjustments thread, a Succubus, extra classes to-be-determined (Bard and Factotum are both tempting), who wound up trapped in the Menagerie thanks to a powerful curse (cursed item, perhaps?) on her, nature to-be-discussed.

    In other words, a useful party face with much utility. Hard to say how good she'd be in battle, though.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Looking For: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Some questions

    A.) Can we use Pathfinder SRD monsters and templates?
    B.) Do Undead get Cha to HP as in Pathfinder or straight d12 ala 3.5?
    C.) Would Blade Bravo be available for non-Gnomes? (Thinking of a Pixie or Slyph build).

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    I am curious how would the Advanced Template work from PF? I know its cheesy but I am curious.

    EDIT: I am considering different options and want to see if the Advanced Template can be applied.
    Last edited by HereBeMonsters; 2019-10-09 at 10:08 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Given that I really do not understand how this multistalt system works, I'd like to express interest as an outsider, whose RHD already get full BAB and all good saves. Would a noble djinni be acceptable? Minus the ability to grant wishes, of course; presumably McMoneyBags Sr. used his wishes to permanently wish that capacity away.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Introducing Zhanshi - Yak Folk Infiltrator, Spy, Explorer, Warrior.

    Yak Folk 7 // Factotum 6 // Warblade 5 with 1,000 XP leftover.

    Super short version of his backstory: Zhanshi is a pretty typical Yak Folk. Longing for glory among his peers he made numerous excursions from his hometown to lure unsuspecting humanoids into his city. He was very successful, until he wasn't. Now he's stuck in the menagerie.

    I have a couple of minor questions:

    1. The Yak Folk entry in the MMII has 5 RHD and 3 feats, suggesting one is a racial bonus feat. I would guess the racial bonus feat is "Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff" considering the race's penchant for staves. Do I get one of the feats listed in the Yak Folk entry as a racial bonus feat, or no?

    2. How do you want to handle the aspect of the Yak Folk racial ability Use Staff (Ex) which states that they have a HD*5% chance to have a random magical staff in their possession? Since I have 5 RHD, and 6 class HD, would I have a 25 or 30% chance to have a magical staff? How would we determine if I do or don't have a staff and what staff it would be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwarforged View Post
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    MindFlayer

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    Hey, not the DM but my 2 cents. I would think no Magical Staff because thats more for the likelyhood of a loot table. If the creature would have a staff on them if the PCs kill them and loot em.

    Is it possible DM to use the PF Sorcerer? I am sorry but d4 when you only get a handful of hit dice is really rough. Even if its just I can use the PF HD.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeMonsters View Post
    Hey, not the DM but my 2 cents. I would think no Magical Staff because thats more for the likelyhood of a loot table. If the creature would have a staff on them if the PCs kill them and loot em.

    Is it possible DM to use the PF Sorcerer? I am sorry but d4 when you only get a handful of hit dice is really rough. Even if its just I can use the PF HD.
    I'd be fine with that ruling, though I think a random magical staff has a lot of opportunity for fun, as long as the staff isn't actually truly random and doesn't give me something like a Staff of Shapechange but something utility focused that might benefit the group in some way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwarforged View Post
    You sir are a True Pirate Lord.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Before addressing individual posts, there's a change in ruling I've decided from the general feel of the thread so far
    Spoiler: TL;DR: primary track is no longer "monster class"-exclusive, but RHD and LA are still encouraged
    Show
    That is, class levels can now be added to the primary track ON TOP of RHD+LA. At first I had decided against this because of the request for a monster game, my thoughts at the time were to promote high ECL creatures, even if that required me to approve, devise or adjust existing progressions, to this matter I even ruled RHD provided max hp right off the bat. The problem with this came when people had in mind builds with fairly low ECL creatures. This and the restriction for the secondary track not exceeding ECL, became a gaping problem as Denomar and Taelas were quick to point out. Solution: remove said restriction from the system OR allow an easier way to raise the ECL on the primary track.

    However, another problem may arise from this solution, the same problem that plagues many monsters-as-PCs games: Party balance. We all know WotC gave the short stick to monster characters, and now that low ECL builds are viable, and they enjoy the same flexibility for the second (and beyond) available tracks, I am more wary of imbalances from one build to the next. Admittedly, the underlying problem comes from the system itself (which is on its debut on these forums) which is why I prefer to alter the parameters for the builds themselves rather than the system; it's on trial after all, and I wish to see what extremes it can go before making adjustments.

    Lastly, this is still a request thread for a monster game. With that in mind I can say that party balance will be a greater factor than I intended when selecting characters for the game. While you can potentially slap a monstrous template to a humanoid and build on top of that, the baron should have have enough reason to keep you in the menagerie and treat you as Varelse (kudos if you get the reference), a creature instead of merely a captured slave.


    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    okay on PB,

    on the monster aspect, just to clarify this is acceptable for a monster
    I am using a template to go from race X to monstrous humanoid
    if not I will look at other monster race options
    A feral elf is acceptable; though as stated on the last paragraph above, more monstrousness has more appeal to the Baron for his collection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Will it be possible to add new gestalt "tracks" after play begins?
    Yes, also, the LA for the Myconid Sovereign is lowered to +3 to remain on par with other LA assignments already approved

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlawk View Post
    @Sahigu and @Herebemonsters

    What is the tone you're shooting for in the game? I know that a key theme that was mentioned is going to be the fact that the PCs don't fit in and can't just walk into town but beyond that... are you looking for misunderstood heroes? Neutralish monsters just trying to make their way in the world? Rampaging evil out for revenge against society?

    @Sahigu
    Sources lists "WotC official books for 3.5" does that potentially include dragon magazine materials? I've got a couple ideas rolling around in my head, one of which is a bruiser type that I need to flesh out a bit but the bastard halfbreed type (Half minotaur or Half Ogre) is far more appealing to me than the fullbloods. As a tie in to the earlier question, I'm hoping that alignments are not restricted for monster types? If we aren't playing an evil campaign then it will be easier to play a Neutral Hungry half ogre than evil, lol.

    What type of an optimization level are you looking for? As a melee type should I be specifically looking for ways to be sure that I have access to flight, fast healing etc or build for concept?
    I am a big fan of Path of War which is the Pathfinder version of Tome of Battle Book of 9 Swords, just wanted to be sure that was an option before I invest too much time in it.
    Can't speak for HBM and I don't want to spoil too much of the game, but I'm not shooting for an evil theme (not ruling it out either, if the party turns that way) what I can say is, as part of the menagerie, all prospective players know and are familiar (not actually close) to most of the collection; you may develop some background details in tandem should you like to, (maybe evil plans even).

    I'd rather see concept builds and worry about optimization after selection.

    I'm very fond of ToB and its theme, I'm still doing some reading on PoW and it seems similar enough in intent and form, go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoIncardine View Post
    Current idea seed:
    Taking advantage of the adjusted ECL of 8 based on the LA Adjustments thread, a Succubus, extra classes to-be-determined (Bard and Factotum are both tempting), who wound up trapped in the Menagerie thanks to a powerful curse (cursed item, perhaps?) on her, nature to-be-discussed.

    In other words, a useful party face with much utility. Hard to say how good she'd be in battle, though.
    ECL 8 Succubus is okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Some questions

    A.) Can we use Pathfinder SRD monsters and templates?
    B.) Do Undead get Cha to HP as in Pathfinder or straight d12 ala 3.5?
    C.) Would Blade Bravo be available for non-Gnomes? (Thinking of a Pixie or Slyph build).
    Since LA doesn't exist in PF, ask for specific creatures/templates to look for or asign LA.
    I like ruling Unholy Toughness (3.5's Cha to HP) as an undead-exclusive feat, it requires Improved Toughness and Cha 15
    Blade Bravo is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    Given that I really do not understand how this multistalt system works, I'd like to express interest as an outsider, whose RHD already get full BAB and all good saves. Would a noble djinni be acceptable? Minus the ability to grant wishes, of course; presumably McMoneyBags Sr. used his wishes to permanently wish that capacity away.
    I'm okay with a +2 LA Djinni, but (as the linked post says) a noble Djinni without wish is only a Djinni with more RHD. Considering RHD give max HP in this game they are not as inconsequential. Regarding the multistalt: If you were to spend 36k XP for an ECL 9 Djinni, you'd have 14k extra to spend. You could increase your ECL via additional RHD or a class level for 9k XP as normal. Alternatively, for 1k you could start a gestalt track at 1st level and then 10k XP to reach level 5 in a gestalt class, the remaining 3k xp coul be used for crafting or to add a tristalt class at 1st level (2k) and raise it to lvl 2 (1k).

    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeMonsters View Post
    Not to argue but the book says the Slpyhs Hit Dice which is what I was thinking. RHD limitations are really rough for monsters, and the race actually does progress 4-9 HD, so could I buy the slyph at a higher cost?
    But if I took Sorcerer as my second path.. would my spells known and spell slots per day stack?

    I could always go Petal with 10 levels of Sorcerer if I want higher casting.

    I am curious how would the Advanced Template work from PF? I know its cheesy but I am curious.

    EDIT: I am considering different options and want to see if the Advanced Template can be applied.

    Is it possible DM to use the PF Sorcerer? I am sorry but d4 when you only get a handful of hit dice is really rough.
    You could buy the Sylph at more RHD, also I'm deciding to lower the LA to +4 to remain on par with other LA assignments already approved, RHD+4 and sorcerer levels on the primary track add together, capping at ECL. Sorcerer levels from secondary (and beyond) tracks don't stack (as normal Gestalt rules).

    At a +2 LA, you could go for 8 levels of sorcerer petal with 45k XP.

    The advanced template would be at +2 LA.

    PF Sorcerer is ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aegis013 View Post
    Introducing Zhanshi - Yak Folk Infiltrator, Spy, Explorer, Warrior.

    Yak Folk 7 // Factotum 6 // Warblade 5 with 1,000 XP leftover.

    Super short version of his backstory: Zhanshi is a pretty typical Yak Folk. Longing for glory among his peers he made numerous excursions from his hometown to lure unsuspecting humanoids into his city. He was very successful, until he wasn't. Now he's stuck in the menagerie.

    I have a couple of minor questions:

    1. The Yak Folk entry in the MMII has 5 RHD and 3 feats, suggesting one is a racial bonus feat. I would guess the racial bonus feat is "Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff" considering the race's penchant for staves. Do I get one of the feats listed in the Yak Folk entry as a racial bonus feat, or no?

    2. How do you want to handle the aspect of the Yak Folk racial ability Use Staff (Ex) which states that they have a HD*5% chance to have a random magical staff in their possession? Since I have 5 RHD, and 6 class HD, would I have a 25 or 30% chance to have a magical staff? How would we determine if I do or don't have a staff and what staff it would be?
    You do get a racial bonus feat, you may pick one from those on the MMII statblock OR..

    You did have a staff of evocation, now it's probably in the Lord's treasury if it hasn't been sold, use staff still lets you bypass UMD checks; and instead of a racial feat you may have Craft Staff, and the possibility to recreate your staff of evocation partially or fully, even if you don't have spell access (gold, time and XP still needed); spellcasting from a class could also be used for crafting.

    @redfeline You also asked about the Quickling, and the LA is now +3 to stay on par with other LA assignments already approved.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    If more monstrousness is what the baron wants in his menagerie, I doubt an Eladrin qualifies.
    I'll pick a different critter and make a new sheet, but now I got my gears turning and I have a pretty fun idea (IMO). It's something similar to transformers' Scorponok, using a couple of templates:
    First, apply the Effigy Creature template (Complete Arcane, LA+0) to a Scorpionfolk (MM2 for 3.0 or d20srd.org for 3.5).
    Then apply the Soulfused Construct template (Magic of Incarnum, LA+1) to the Scorpionfolk Effigy.
    Then all I gotta do is add any allowed firearms onto this thing in place of poison (I think Effigy loses poison?); he can still stab with his claws and stinger but there isn't poison (I don't think?), he just has extra guns on his front arms and tail.

    I'm gonna need a savage progression for this, tho... Unless I could just give a Large Monstrous Scorpion guns on his claws instead (or the Entothrope template from Pathfinder, but at that point I'd want the Transforming Construct template instead, for obvious reasons). He'd need to be able to fire them without hands...
    Last edited by MinotaurWarblad; 2019-10-10 at 08:11 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    Regarding the multistalt: If you were to spend 36k XP for an ECL 9 Djinni, you'd have 14k extra to spend. You could increase your ECL via additional RHD or a class level for 9k XP as normal. Alternatively, for 1k you could start a gestalt track at 1st level and then 10k XP to reach level 5 in a gestalt class, the remaining 3k xp coul be used for crafting or to add a tristalt class at 1st level (2k) and raise it to lvl 2 (1k).
    But what does that mean for BAB and saving throws? Djinn is a bad example for this because of how outsider HD work, but let's say it was a hypothetical Ooze, with no good saves on the RHD. Primary track is 9 Ooze RHD, secondary track is 5 cleric HD, and tertiary track is 1 ranger HD. Where exactly do these classes get gestalted? Is it one level of ooze/cleric/ranger, then four levels of ooze/cleric, then four levels of ooze? Or is it four levels of ooze/cleric, then one level of ooze/ranger, then four levels of ooze? Or something else entirely?

    In particular, you said "1 LA from the primary track may share a level with a class level" - does this level come before or after the RHD? Like, if you took a warblade level to share that LA, would you be eligible to take Martial Stance as a feat during your RHD levels? Or would the warblade training not kick in until after the RHD are completed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinotaurWarblad View Post
    If more monstrousness is what the baron wants in his menagerie, I doubt an Eladrin qualifies.
    I'll pick a different critter and make a new sheet, but now I got my gears turning and I have a pretty fun idea (IMO). It's something similar to transformers' Scorponok, using a couple of templates:
    First, apply the Effigy Creature template (Complete Arcane, LA+0) to a Scorpionfolk (MM2 for 3.0 or d20srd.org for 3.5).
    Then apply the Soulfused Construct template (Magic of Incarnum, LA+1) to the Scorpionfolk Effigy.
    Then all I gotta do is add any allowed firearms onto this thing in place of poison (I think Effigy loses poison?); he can still stab with his claws and stinger but there isn't poison (I don't think?), he just has extra guns on his front arms and tail.

    I'm gonna need a savage progression for this, tho... Unless I could just give a Large Monstrous Scorpion guns on his claws instead (or the Entothrope template from Pathfinder, but at that point I'd want the Transforming Construct template instead, for obvious reasons). He'd need to be able to fire them without hands...
    Just to clarify, an Eladrin captured and bound would certainly be a better show of wealth and power than a half-dragon hobgoblin, even if it doesn't look as monstrous.

    I'll start working on a progression for Scorpionfolk, or I could interest you instead on the Tauric template (MMII p217) combines the physical racial adjustments of a Large monstrous scorpion with the mental racial adjustments of any medium humanoid (or medium scorpion + small humanoid) and all special attacks and abilities from both, LA +0 and RHD equal to the original scorpion's + the original humanoid's (usually 1). This sacrifices the fire and spell resistance along with SLAs, improved grab and constrict could easily be swapped for trample and temorsense is nice to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    But what does that mean for BAB and saving throws? Djinn is a bad example for this because of how outsider HD work, but let's say it was a hypothetical Ooze, with no good saves on the RHD. Primary track is 9 Ooze RHD, secondary track is 5 cleric HD, and tertiary track is 1 ranger HD. Where exactly do these classes get gestalted? Is it one level of ooze/cleric/ranger, then four levels of ooze/cleric, then four levels of ooze? Or is it four levels of ooze/cleric, then one level of ooze/ranger, then four levels of ooze? Or something else entirely?

    In particular, you said "1 LA from the primary track may share a level with a class level" - does this level come before or after the RHD? Like, if you took a warblade level to share that LA, would you be eligible to take Martial Stance as a feat during your RHD levels? Or would the warblade training not kick in until after the RHD are completed?
    Classes get gestalted as your first example described, each new track begins at the bottom and shares the level sideways, I see them as building blocks piling up on different stacks.

    The primary track has a specific order, with RHD on the bottom, followed by LA and (on the most recent ruling) class levels on top. To expand on HereBeMonsters' example, a 3 HD +4 LA sylph (21k XP) could build 7 levels (21k) of Bard on a secondary track (1k) for a total of 3 RHD and 4 class HD, and spend his remaining 7k XP to add 1 RHD on his primary track, not changing his HD total (4 RHD + 3 Class); or adding instead Sorcerer 1, which comes on top of the 7 monster levels for a total of 3 RHD + 4 Bard HD + 1 Sorc HD.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    Yes, also, the LA for the Myconid Sovereign is lowered to +3 to remain on par with other LA assignments already approved
    Coolio. And if I end up going with the lycanthrope instead, what's the LA there? For a long time I've wanted to play a were-((dire badger advanced to 4HD for size increase and some rockin' physical stats)). Thought I'd found the right game for it a while back, but the DM ghosted on the first page
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    Just to clarify, an Eladrin captured and bound would certainly be a better show of wealth and power than a half-dragon hobgoblin, even if it doesn't look as monstrous.

    I'll start working on a progression for Scorpionfolk, or I could interest you instead on the Tauric template (MMII p217) combines the physical racial adjustments of a Large monstrous scorpion with the mental racial adjustments of any medium humanoid (or medium scorpion + small humanoid) and all special attacks and abilities from both, LA +0 and RHD equal to the original scorpion's + the original humanoid's (usually 1). This sacrifices the fire and spell resistance along with SLAs, improved grab and constrict could easily be swapped for trample and temorsense is nice to have.
    Tauric works great, I could just use an azurin as the base humanoid and a mineral warrior large monstrous scorpion as the base creature (I want burrow speed and the other goodies, but don't absolutely need them), then add Effigy and Soulfused! This gives 5 RHD (Effigy removes the 1 from humanoid that would ordinarily be due to a class level) and LA+2, and I actually prefer improved grab and constrict over trample. Cool! Now to add Totemist with the manticore belt in place of firearms! Maybe Warblade for Tiger Claw jumpiness and the thematic appropriateness of a discipline called Iron Heart on a sapient robot.
    Last edited by MinotaurWarblad; 2019-10-11 at 06:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    For a bunch of enslaved monsters, have you considered using either Grod's Chopping down the Christmas Tree or the Pathfinder Automatic Bonus Progression? It might make more sense than having magic items. Completely understandable if you would rather not since you're trying to focus on testing your gestalt system though.

    EDIT: I want to be sure I have things correct in my mind here.
    So I want to do a 7/7/3 split
    21000+21000+3000=45000 XP for the levels, 1000+2000=3000 to open the gestalt tracks for a total XP spent of 48000
    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    In a monster game, 1 LA from the primary track may share a level with a class level.
    Track 1) 4 LA, 4 Ranger since a single LA and class level can be combined
    Track 2) 7 Martial Adept
    Track 3) 3 Ranger

    I just wanted to be sure there was no issue with splitting the ranger levels between tracks like that since all the LA has to be in track 1. I could dip 3 levels of something else there and end up with more power but I would rather not.
    Last edited by Warlawk; 2019-10-11 at 09:25 AM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Coolio. And if I end up going with the lycanthrope instead, what's the LA there? For a long time I've wanted to play a were-((dire badger advanced to 4HD for size increase and some rockin' physical stats)). Thought I'd found the right game for it a while back, but the DM ghosted on the first page
    Lycanthropes with access to hybrid form get a +2, without hybrid form +1.

    Quote Originally Posted by MinotaurWarblad View Post
    Tauric works great, I could just use an azurin as the base humanoid and a mineral warrior large monstrous scorpion as the base creature (I want burrow speed and the other goodies, but don't absolutely need them), then add Effigy and Soulfused! This gives 5 RHD (Effigy removes the 1 from humanoid that would ordinarily be due to a class level) and LA+2, and I actually prefer improved grab and constrict over trample. Cool! Now to add Totemist with the manticore belt in place of firearms! Maybe Warblade for Tiger Claw jumpiness and the thematic appropriateness of a discipline called Iron Heart on a sapient robot.
    Mineral Warrior is fine, but the way Tauric adds the creatures' HD total and changes them into monstrous humanoid THD makes it so that Effigy does not remove any HD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlawk View Post
    For a bunch of enslaved monsters, have you considered using either Grod's Chopping down the Christmas Tree or the Pathfinder Automatic Bonus Progression? It might make more sense than having magic items. Completely understandable if you would rather not since you're trying to focus on testing your gestalt system though.

    EDIT: I want to be sure I have things correct in my mind here.
    So I want to do a 7/7/3 split
    21000+21000+3000=45000 XP for the levels, 1000+2000=3000 to open the gestalt tracks for a total XP spent of 48000

    Track 1) 4 LA, 4 Ranger since a single LA and class level can be combined
    Track 2) 7 Martial Adept
    Track 3) 3 Ranger

    I just wanted to be sure there was no issue with splitting the ranger levels between tracks like that since all the LA has to be in track 1. I could dip 3 levels of something else there and end up with more power but I would rather not.
    I wasn't familiar with the Bonus Progression from PF, and I'll think about it, seems a bit more conservative than grod's approach, which would blow this game to unkown heights.

    Accounting checks out for the XP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    In a monster game, 1 LA "level" from the primary track may share a level with a class level from additional Gestalt tracks.
    The bold bit has been added to the original post for clarification. It might have been better to just say LA doesn't affect any tracks except the primary.

    Following the above, you could get
    1) 4 LA + 3 Ranger
    2) 7 Martial Adept
    3) Ranger 4-6

    There's no problem splitting ranger levels among two tracks. However, they can't overlap at the same level; in your example, after gaining enough XP you could spend 3k to get ranger 7 on the third track, but not a further 4k to reach ranger 8 since it would overlap with Ranger 1 from the primary at the same level.

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahigu View Post
    Following the above, you could get
    1) 4 LA + 3 Ranger
    2) 7 Martial Adept
    3) Ranger 4-6

    There's no problem splitting ranger levels among two tracks. However, they can't overlap at the same level; in your example, after gaining enough XP you could spend 3k to get ranger 7 on the third track, but not a further 4k to reach ranger 8 since it would overlap with Ranger 1 from the primary at the same level.
    Perfect, thank you. The way that was originally worded seemed very odd to me which is why I wanted to double check it.
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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    I need a clarification on the gestalt and how it applies to RHD + LA
    so I have 49,000 of 50K for gestalt 2 tracks
    lets say track 1 has ECL 9 before classes by my count that is 36,000 exp
    now can I put say RHD on 1 track and LA on the other track ? track 1; track 2
    once that is solved does any class in track then take EXP cumulative to the RHD or LA or Combo of both ?
    do the classes count exp separate from the total monster ECL?

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    Ok here is how I understand it.
    Say my race has 2 RHD and an LA of 4
    Track one looks like RHD2/LA4/ClassX
    With Track two being //ClassX

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    Default Re: Gestalt 3.P Monster Game

    The multi-stalting thing is pretty cool IMO, but it does take some handling, eh?
    It seems like it would be absolutely spectacular in an E6 or E8 game. I really like the setup.

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