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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    Are you talking about Clint Barton or the new Hawkeye? Or did Clint become Hawkeye again? Seriously, that dude has had some many super identities.

    If we're talking overall, I'd give it to Thor. Unless Thor has been nerfed more recently.
    The world’s big enough for two Hawkeyes.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Scarlet Witch could probably take Captain Marvel if she needed to. She managed to push back Thanos when he had 5 of the Chaos Emeralds, while she was actively destroying the 6th. He couldn't stop her, either, and the only reason he got the last Emerald is that he used Chaos Control to meddle with time. So long as Carol doesn't get too close, I'd say Wanda has the upper hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I could see Disney actually going for a Squirrel Girl movie. It would allow them to make a movie in the same vein as Deadpool while still being family friendly enough for a PG-13 rating.
    Considering its a female lead don't hold your breath.

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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    Are you talking about Clint Barton or the new Hawkeye? Or did Clint become Hawkeye again? Seriously, that dude has had some many super identities.

    If we're talking overall, I'd give it to Thor. Unless Thor has been nerfed more recently.
    Clint is Hawkeye.

    While he did go by Ronin and Goliath for a while, for the most part he and Kate had both been Hawkeye simultaneously.

    they were even both on West Coast Avengers at the same time.

    Currently in the comics, there are two Hawkeyes, two Wasps, three Giantmen, and Four Spider-Men.

    Kind of makes me a bit upset that they made Laura go back to X-23 when Logan came back to life. There was room for two Wolverines.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Carol Danvers as Binary is well up in the realm of chucking the power of stars around. She’s definitely in the top tier of Earth based heroes and with Worldbreaker Hulk and the Sentry.
    Darn, I was JUST beginning to pretend that the Sentry was just fever dream plot device.

    He just slipped my mind. I find Sentry to be forgettable, except that time he was a minion of the Apocalypse Twins.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Kind of makes me a bit upset that they made Laura go back to X-23 when Logan came back to life. There was room for two Wolverines.
    That's what they want you think, bub.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Scarlet Witch probably has the same amount of power output as Carol, if not more, she just lacks durability. Scarlet Witch completely manhandled Thanos, she could probably do the same to Carol.
    Scarlet Witch also has the power to induce hallucinations; she just doesn't really use them as a hero. So depending on the circumstances, it could be an even fight between her and Carol.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    This being said, both Dr. Strange and Ironman are capable of outshining any of them, given time to prepare for a specific situation.
    Yeah, I figure in the sense of "can beat the characters with the highest challenge rating" Strange (with time stone) is probably the most powerful of the MCU bunch, being able to tangle with all sorts of eldritch villains from somewhere just outside reality on their own terms. But he'll break no sweat dealing with floods of low level opponents or just super powerful villains that don't mess with the makeup of the universe either.

    Captain Marvel though might have overall more applicable powers. (I haven't seen her solo movie yet, so admittedly I don't have too much to go on here.) She meshes well with other heroes and she can use her best powers without distorting reality and rewinding all of her allies. Plus she travels through space to beat back world level threats everywhere, so in terms of total heroic good done per year it's hard to beat that if you're an earthbound character who has to make do with small problems while waiting for the next big one. Less of a Cthulhu slayer, but more conventional powers can be an advantage as well.

    Scarlet Witch is indeed super powerful, but mostly in a straight up offensive way being primarily a really strong telekinetic. Put her directly head to head with either Strange or Marvel I think they probably find a way around her powers, by for instance rewinding to before the duel started or by shooting her from space.

    And then there's the wildcard Vision. I'm not sure we've ever seen what he was really capable of. I do question both his and Scarlet Witch's judgement though for having them spend their time trying to suicide him on a battlefield in full view of the enemy while the two of them were easily the most powerful characters there (no Strange, Marvel or even Hulk, although I guess Thor was there, so maybe easily two of the three most powerful characters). Infinity War might still have been a loss but could have looked a lot different with those two doing battlefield control. Between his mind and the way her powers can complement those of a lot of weaker characters, who were present en masse, they could have done some real damage. Vision was basically an incorruptible mind in an indestructible body, an idealized version of Superman himself. But at this point we might have to note him down as out of the race for being erased forever.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    Are you talking about Clint Barton or the new Hawkeye? Or did Clint become Hawkeye again? Seriously, that dude has had some many super identities.

    If we're talking overall, I'd give it to Thor. Unless Thor has been nerfed more recently.
    Clint turning into Ronin. His super thing is being good guy Bullseye, why not abandon ranged weapons and fight badly in melee?

    He loses two fights to Black Widow in the movies, who lost twice to Bucky, who lost twice to Cap. He is the worst melee combatant outside of Scarlett Witch, but sure use a sword.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Clint turning into Ronin. His super thing is being good guy Bullseye, why not abandon ranged weapons and fight badly in melee?

    He loses two fights to Black Widow in the movies, who lost twice to Bucky, who lost twice to Cap. He is the worst melee combatant outside of Scarlett Witch, but sure use a sword.
    I know that before Clint became Hawkeye, he went by Goliath. He could super size himself and get stronger doing that. Going back to melee without the super strength just seems like asking for trouble. And Ronin was originally Echo (right?) who could at least fight Daredevil on even footing. All these crazy kids, swapping costumes willy-nilly by author fiat or editorial mandate I tells ya...
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    I know that before Clint became Hawkeye, he went by Goliath. He could super size himself and get stronger doing that. Going back to melee without the super strength just seems like asking for trouble. And Ronin was originally Echo (right?) who could at least fight Daredevil on even footing. All these crazy kids, swapping costumes willy-nilly by author fiat or editorial mandate I tells ya...
    He was Hawkeye first.

    Goliath was a phase where he was using Pym Particles.

    in the comics, Hawkeye was part of the second-ever incarnation of the Avengers(Captain America, Hawkeye, and Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, who had recently been freed from their debt to Magneto and left the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. This group is commonly called "Cap's Kookie Quartet" by fans.)

    He's been an Avenger on and off for decades.

    That's why the guy who's only power is arrows is allowed to be an Avenger in the movies. Because he's got the weight of history behind him.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Kind of makes me a bit upset that they made Laura go back to X-23 when Logan came back to life. There was room for two Wolverines.
    Nah... As X-23, Laura had an unique role and identity. As Wolverine, she was downgraded to just being yet another lazy rehash of existing characters... The same sad fate that recently befell She-Hulk, who went from being one of the most interesting and unique characters in the Marvel Universe to being "Hulk with boobs".
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Nah... As X-23, Laura had an unique role and identity. As Wolverine, she was downgraded to just being yet another lazy rehash of existing characters.
    ...You didn't actually read All-New Wolverine, did you?

    Laura's time as Wolverine was spent finally escaping her past and a title she hated for good. Kimura died, Luara chose to stop killing, started raising a kid, had a relatively normal life, got cured of the Trigger scent...

    All out the window to be the thing she hated again.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...You didn't actually read All-New Wolverine, did you?

    Laura's time as Wolverine was spent finally escaping her past and a title she hated for good. Kimura died, Laura chose to stop killing, started raising a kid, had a relatively normal life, got cured of the Trigger scent...
    Ah! Very different from Logan... The guy who constantly tries to escape his past, tries to stop killing, occasionally gets fed up and kills one of his enemies, likes children and usually mentors one (and even has an adopted daughter, IIRC), get cured of his Weapon-X conditioning... Until a writer unmakes everything so that he can tell stories with tragic anti-hero/morally ambiguous wolverine again...

    With Wolverine around, Laura could actually be used in stories that Logan couldn't lead... Like being part of a group of young and (relatively) inexperienced heroes, dealing with teenager/young adult problems, having an interesting relationship with Logan and related characters, etc.

    Making her the "All-New" Wolverine, turned her into... Well... Wolverine. What is the point? We already have a Wolverine. Killing him and replacing him with Laura just means the MU lost an interesting character... Either they keep Laura different, meaning we lost Logan, or they turn her into a rehash character... Meaning we effectively lost Laura.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    No. you don't get it.

    Laura excaped her past.

    She succeeded.

    there's no evidence that anything was undone, her supporting cast from All-New Wolverine stuck around, Gabby was still there is a gem...

    Laura just randomly went back to X-23 for a handwave.

    A name she explicitly stated she hated while explaining that she went back to it for unknown reasons.

    Logan wasn't even officially back yet.

    There was no reason at all to make her go back to a name she hated
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Hat View Post
    Considering its a female lead don't hold your breath.
    True.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No. you don't get it.
    Riiiiiight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Laura excaped her past.

    She succeeded.
    Because as we know, these things are never undone in comics... That's why Bucky is still Captain America, Logan never had to deal with the Weapon X project ever again and everyone still knows Spider-Man's identity... Who is clone, BTW.

    I could've told you that Logan would return and Laura would lose the Wolverine name the very moment they announced Logan was going to die.

    But that's also besides the point... With the death of Logan, either Laura remains a unique character and we lose a cool character (Logan), or she becomes a rehash of Logan and we lose another cool character (Laura). Wolverine's death was a pointless gimmick that we all knew wouldn't stick.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Ah! Very different from Logan... The guy who constantly tries to escape his past, tries to stop killing, occasionally gets fed up and kills one of his enemies, likes children and usually mentors one (and even has an adopted daughter, IIRC), get cured of his Weapon-X conditioning... Until a writer unmakes everything so that he can tell stories with tragic anti-hero/morally ambiguous wolverine again...

    With Wolverine around, Laura could actually be used in stories that Logan couldn't lead... Like being part of a group of young and (relatively) inexperienced heroes, dealing with teenager/young adult problems, having an interesting relationship with Logan and related characters, etc.

    Making her the "All-New" Wolverine, turned her into... Well... Wolverine. What is the point? We already have a Wolverine. Killing him and replacing him with Laura just means the MU lost an interesting character... Either they keep Laura different, meaning we lost Logan, or they turn her into a rehash character... Meaning we effectively lost Laura.
    Let's put it this way. Laura going back to calling herself X-23 would be like **** Grayson going back to calling himself Robin. It's a regression of a character that's moved past that.

    Also we have two Spider-men and Two Hawkeyes and no one really seems bothered by it.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    EDIT: Nevermind... I'll stop derailing the thread. And I'm not in the mood to have this argument again. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Well we did lose years of Barbara Gordon being Oracle and her going back to Batgirl so I guess comic book writers really don’t give one ****

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Who? View Post
    Well we did lose years of Barbara Gordon being Oracle and her going back to Batgirl so I guess comic book writers really don’t give one ****
    Sorry... I know I siad I was going to stop derailing the thread, but...

    Man... That one actually hurt my soul!

    Barbara was the least interesting Batgirl... But Oracle was freaking awesome!
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Sorry... I know I siad I was going to stop derailing the thread, but...

    Man... That one actually hurt my soul!

    Barbara was the least interesting Batgirl... But Oracle was freaking awesome!
    Barbara was better as Oracle, Jason was better dead, Peter was better married, Kraven was better dead, Starfire was better when she could recognize faces (though I think this was dropped), Hal Jordan was better as a fallen hero, Wolverine's past was better before they gave us an answer, Harley and Ivy were better when the writers still understood that Ivy was almost as abusive as Joker and not trying to make the character whose superpower is rape and has tried to commit genocide multiple times suddenly become the perfect romantic partner. That one is infuriating.

    It's comics man. You gotta roll with the stupid, or just give up after awhile.

    Anyway, strongest Avenger is Sentry, Franklin Richards (if he counts, he lived in the Avenger's tower for awhile anyway), Blue Marvel, and Odinforce Thor, Hulk is sort of implied to also technically be at this level in that his punches have canonically broken time and shook the entire multiverse, but he doesn't seem to have much ability to really use this consistently.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2019-10-05 at 01:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    yes.
    And that is why she sucks as a character.
    She is superman, but doesn't even have a kryptonite, or god forbid MARTHA!!!!
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Kind of makes me a bit upset that they made Laura go back to X-23 when Logan came back to life. There was room for two Wolverines.
    WHAT?! Someone from a comic died and came back to life?!

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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Hat View Post
    WHAT?! Someone from a comic died and came back to life?!
    that NEVER happens!!!!
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Hat View Post
    WHAT?! Someone from a comic died and came back to life?!
    I think the point flew over your head.

    In a world where there are four Spider-Men, two Hawkeyes, Two Wasps, three Giantmen, and Three Ghost Riders active at the same time, there is absolutely no reason why there couldn't have been two Wolverines.
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    Ignoring the incredible plethora of preexisting COmics and only going by the MCU (which includes only considering beings IN the MCU) I`d say that Captain marvel has the highest Powerlevel of the "can easily and without much effort/Specific Circumstances apply her powers all the time" Characters.

    A superduperenraged Hulk can beat her.
    A Scarlet Witch risking killing herself via nosebleed or distraction or as sideeffect of killing her could beat her straight up easily enough....but carol is fast enough that would not happen.

    Thor....with all recent Pwoerups still is weaker, but not by much.

    Stranges only chances would be to flee, and rewind until he gets it right.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    In terms of going toe-to-toe, Marvel is probably the strongest in the MCU, based on how she no-sold a direct hit from Thanos and her single-handed destruction of the capital ship. Both being empowered by the Stones but being way more physically durable, I'd give her the nod over the Scarlet Witch.

    Of the other Avengers, the only one I'd call a wild card is Strange; they took him out of the final brawl to deal with the flood for a reason. Even without using his own stone he went toe-to-toe solo with Thanos using 4 of them(!) for longer than anyone else, including a couple of shots that probably would have taken out anyone who wasn't packing the Space, Power, Soul, and Reality stones all together.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I think the point flew over your head.

    In a world where there are four Spider-Men, two Hawkeyes, Two Wasps, three Giantmen, and Three Ghost Riders active at the same time, there is absolutely no reason why there couldn't have been two Wolverines.
    I got that. I just chose to make a joke about how nearly every mainstream comic book character has died at some point only to come back to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    that NEVER happens!!!!
    At least one person got my joke.
    Last edited by Magic_Hat; 2019-10-05 at 02:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Captain Marvel the Most Powerful Avenger?

    No one really thought Wolverine wasn't going to come back, that's the issue, the problem is what they did with Laura
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