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Thread: #RoastMe

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Aug 2018

    Default #RoastMe

    I'm looking for brutal and honest criticism regarding my build. I have a new campaign starting this weekend and I've decided to play a Sorlockadin. The DM warned us that he will not hesitate to kill our characters if given the chance (he means it and has challenging combat encounters), so I am only considering the absolute best options to ensure the survival of my character, and my party members, throughout the campaign. I'd like to play a character optimized for battle but also with a backstory and plenty of roleplay opportunities. I own every sourcebook and everything is allowed except for Unearthed Arcana.

    Mindartis Moonwhisper
    Male Variant Half-Elf (Human, Drow)
    Oath of Vengeance Paladin 1-6/Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-12/Hexblade Warlock 0-2
    Paladin 1-6 -> Warlock 0-2 -> Sorcerer 0-12
    Paladin 1 -> Warlock 0-2 -> Paladin 2-6 -> Sorcerer 0-12
    Custom Acolyte

    Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
    16-8-15-8-10-17

    OR

    15-10-15-8-10-17
    15-12-15-8-8-17

    Feats: Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha) [Level 4 Paladin], War Caster [Level 4 Sorcerer], ASI (+2 Cha) [Level 8 Sorcerer], Resilient: Constitution (+1 Con) [Level 12 Sorcerer]

    18 AC w/Chainmail [Level 1], 19 AC [Level 2], 20 AC w/Plate
    Silvered Longsword +0-3 and Shield +0-3
    Heavy Armor (+Fighting Style: Defense)

    Eldritch Invocations: Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast
    Metamagic: Quickened Spell, Subtle Spell, Twinned Spell

    Spells: Eldritch Blast, Guidance, Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements, Counterspell, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Healing Word, Revivify, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Hold Monster, Fly, Fireball, Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Hypnotic Pattern, Sanctuary, Greater Invisibility, Feather Fall, Haste, Suggestion

    Skills: Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Perception
    Tools: Disguise Kit (Herbalism Kit?), Smith's Tools
    Language: Common, Elvish, Undercommon

    Combos: (Hexblade's Curse) + Darkness/Faerie Fire/Vow of Enmity + Devil's Sight + Elven Accuracy for triple advantage and crit-fishing, Friends + Disguise Kit/Disguise Self, Quickened Hold Person/Hold Monster + Attack/Extra Attack + Divine Smite for auto-crit, Attack/Extra Attack + Quickened Greenflame Blade/Booming Blade, 1st turn Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon + 2nd turn Dodge + Sanctuary for difficult encounters, Twinned Healing Word/Revivify. Can Eldritch Blast + Quicken Eldritch Blast if necessary.

    Backstory: Character was born into slavery by a Drow father and Human mother. Escaped slavery from help of the Church of Eilistraee. Became an acolyte and Paladin of the Dark Maiden and set out to follow her ideals to help those in need and to foster relationships between Drow/Half-Drow and the other races. Detests slavery and will attack slavers on sight if success is possible. Will not hesitate to use spells to heal and save others. Performs the rituals of Eilistraee on occasion and will attempt to burn the corpses of evil enemies. Tries his best to follow her example but falters on occasion. (I will not play him edgy and will attempt to convey a genuine concern for others).

    I will be the main tank utilizing Faerie Fire/Darkness/Spirit Guardians, depending on the encounter. If I have Darkness active, I will attempt to move out of range so it doesn't impede my allies. I will use Vow of Enmity/Faerie Fire for enemies with Truesight/Tremor Sense. Eldritch Blast will be used for enemies out of range of melee. Shield/Absorb Elements will be used as needed. Subtle Counterspell to negate Counterspell of my spell or to increase probability of success. I realize I may not have enough spells known for the spells I've listed--in that case, I will choose the best ones available.

    What do you think? Please do not hold back. I am looking for the harshest constructive criticism possible. I am also open to changing anything that is suboptimal. I'm looking forward to your advice.
    Last edited by Expected; 2019-10-04 at 04:41 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    I'm looking for brutal and honest criticism regarding my build. I have a new campaign starting this weekend and I've decided to play a Sorlockadin. The DM warned us that he will not hesitate to kill our characters if given the chance (he means it and has challenging combat encounters), so I am only considering the absolute best options to ensure the survival of my character, and my party members, throughout the campaign. I'd like to play a character optimized for battle but also with a backstory and plenty of roleplay opportunities. I own every sourcebook and everything is allowed except for Unearthed Arcana.

    Mindartis Moonwhisper
    Male Variant Half-Elf (Human, Drow)
    Oath of Vengeance Paladin 1-6/Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-12/Hexblade Warlock 0-2
    Paladin 1-6 -> Warlock 0-2 -> Sorcerer 0-12
    Custom Acolyte

    Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
    16-8-15-8-10-17

    Feats: Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha) [Level 4 Paladin], War Caster [Level 4 Sorcerer], ASI (+2 Cha) [Level 8 Sorcerer], Resilient: Constitution (+1 Con) [Level 12 Sorcerer]

    18 AC w/Chainmail [Level 1], 19 AC [Level 2], 20 AC w/Plate
    Silvered Longsword +0-3 and Shield +0-3
    Heavy Armor (+Fighting Style: Defense)

    Eldritch Invocations: Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast
    Metamagic: Quickened Spell, Subtle Spell, Twinned Spell

    Spells: Eldritch Blast, Guidance, Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements, Counterspell, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Healing Word, Revivify, Mirror Image, Hold Person, Hold Monster, Fly, Fireball, Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Hypnotic Pattern, Sanctuary, Greater Invisibility, Feather Fall, Haste, Suggestion

    Skills: Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Perception
    Tools: Disguise Kit (Herbalism Kit?), Smith's Tools
    Language: Common, Elvish, Undercommon

    Combos: (Hexblade's Curse) + Darkness/Faerie Fire/Vow of Enmity + Devil's Sight + Elven Accuracy for triple advantage and crit-fishing, Friends + Disguise Kit/Disguise Self, Quickened Hold Person/Hold Monster + Attack/Extra Attack + Divine Smite for auto-crit, Attack/Extra Attack + Quickened Greenflame Blade/Booming Blade, 1st turn Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon + 2nd turn Dodge + Sanctuary for difficult encounters, Twinned Healing Word/Revivify. Can Eldritch Blast + Quicken Eldritch Blast if necessary.

    Backstory: Character was born into slavery by a Drow father and Human mother. Escaped slavery from help of the Church of Eilistraee. Became an acolyte and Paladin of the Dark Maiden and set out to follow her ideals to help those in need and to foster relationships between Drow/Half-Drow and the other races. Detests slavery and will attack slavers on sight if success is possible. Will not hesitate to use spells to heal and save others. Performs the rituals of Eilistraee on occasion and will attempt to burn the corpses of evil enemies. Tries his best to follow her example but falters on occasion. (I will not play him edgy and will attempt to convey a genuine concern for others).

    I will be the main tank utilizing Faerie Fire/Darkness/Spirit Guardians, depending on the encounter. If I have Darkness active, I will attempt to move out of range so it doesn't impede my allies. I will use Vow of Enmity/Faerie Fire for enemies with Truesight/Tremor Sense. Eldritch Blast will be used for enemies out of range of melee. Shield/Absorb Elements will be used as needed. Subtle Counterspell to negate Counterspell of my spell or to increase probability of success. I realize I may not have enough spells known for the spells I've listed--in that case, I will choose the best ones available.

    What do you think? Please do not hold back. I am looking for the harshest constructive criticism possible. I am also open to changing anything that is suboptimal. I'm looking forward to your advice.
    Why did you decide to go with Hexblade? Almost everything you get from it is redundant and you have a high physical stat anyway. You listed keeping yourself and your team mates alive as one of your aims, Celestial Warlock would give you additional BA healing (not based on slots) and free up some Sorc slots known (and bonus cantrips) whilst losing nothing much beyond Hexblade's Curse. If you wanted to go Cha SAD then you should drop Str down to the pre-req and go for medium armor (a negative Dex is never a good idea in 5e).

    Your build also seems extremely feat heavy for a non V. Human build, I don't think you need Res:Con at all, you probably be better served by a different feat if not just grabbing the straight ASI.

    Do you know anything of the theme of the campaign and are your stats 27 point buy? Would your DM be open to making the multiclass requirement Str OR Dex at 13 (like the Fighter, literally the only reason it's Str is because the stereotypical paladin wears plate)?

    In terms of progression, I'd probably shake it up a bit since you have the SCAGtrips and go for some caster levels earlier on (probably Warlock for the SR recharge and invos).
    For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Jun 2017

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Yeah this build doesn't look much like "i keep my Friends alive", it's more like you keep your enemies dead, so dead...

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Aug 2013

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Why did you decide to go with Hexblade? Almost everything you get from it is redundant and you have a high physical stat anyway. You listed keeping yourself and your team mates alive as one of your aims, Celestial Warlock would give you additional BA healing (not based on slots) and free up some Sorc slots known (and bonus cantrips) whilst losing nothing much beyond Hexblade's Curse. If you wanted to go Cha SAD then you should drop Str down to the pre-req and go for medium armor (a negative Dex is never a good idea in 5e).

    Your build also seems extremely feat heavy for a non V. Human build, I don't think you need Res:Con at all, you probably be better served by a different feat if not just grabbing the straight ASI.

    Do you know anything of the theme of the campaign and are your stats 27 point buy? Would your DM be open to making the multiclass requirement Str OR Dex at 13 (like the Fighter, literally the only reason it's Str is because the stereotypical paladin wears plate)?

    In terms of progression, I'd probably shake it up a bit since you have the SCAGtrips and go for some caster levels earlier on (probably Warlock for the SR recharge and invos).
    I assume he uses Hexblade so he can use Elven Accuracy. Res(Con) is for making sure concentration doesn't drop on his important spells, and his con was odd anyway

    I kind of agree about the str being too high though. You could go Paladin 1, Hexblade 1 for cha to attack at level 2. That way you can leave your str at 15 and take dex out of the negatives. Dumping dex makes me cringe a bit, that's just a lot of extra damage you're going to be taking.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Washington State
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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I assume he uses Hexblade so he can use Elven Accuracy. Res(Con) is for making sure concentration doesn't drop on his important spells, and his con was odd anyway

    I kind of agree about the str being too high though. You could go Paladin 1, Hexblade 1 for cha to attack at level 2. That way you can leave your str at 15 and take dex out of the negatives. Dumping dex makes me cringe a bit, that's just a lot of extra damage you're going to be taking.
    I would instead suggest just swapping STR and CON. Res(CON) comes at level 20 for him, and I think having the CON bonus earlier on will help maintain survivability after going into the squishier classes.
    Having a natural -1 to DEX isn't as big a deal for a paladin, as at level 6 they get their Aura of Protection, which would push it back up to a +3 given that build.


    @Expected
    If you can take the level into Hexblade earlier, it will let you hit better earlier on. I might suggestion Pal1,Hex2,Pal6 just to get access to all the hexblade goodies earlier. I also wonder if you will get more mileage out of buffing your CHA earlier instead of taking War Caster. Higher CHA will not only give you a higher chance to hit, but also (with your Aura) increases ALL of your saves including for concentration. On the other hand, War caster lets you Booming Blade on a Opportunity Attack, and lets you freely wear a shield, which is often nice.
    Last edited by Talsin; 2019-10-04 at 08:52 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Why did you decide to go with Hexblade? Almost everything you get from it is redundant and you have a high physical stat anyway. You listed keeping yourself and your team mates alive as one of your aims, Celestial Warlock would give you additional BA healing (not based on slots) and free up some Sorc slots known (and bonus cantrips) whilst losing nothing much beyond Hexblade's Curse. If you wanted to go Cha SAD then you should drop Str down to the pre-req and go for medium armor (a negative Dex is never a good idea in 5e).

    Your build also seems extremely feat heavy for a non V. Human build, I don't think you need Res:Con at all, you probably be better served by a different feat if not just grabbing the straight ASI.

    Do you know anything of the theme of the campaign and are your stats 27 point buy? Would your DM be open to making the multiclass requirement Str OR Dex at 13 (like the Fighter, literally the only reason it's Str is because the stereotypical paladin wears plate)?

    In terms of progression, I'd probably shake it up a bit since you have the SCAGtrips and go for some caster levels earlier on (probably Warlock for the SR recharge and invos).
    Damon_Tor is correct that I chose Hexblade for the synergy with Elven Accuracy and using Cha to attack. It also allows Darkness and Faerie Fire to be used for advantage.

    It is feat heavy, but I don't absolutely need any of the feats to be effective like a GWM/PAM build. I would like to take War Caster early so I can use Shield/Absorb Elements/Counterspell without dropping my weapon at the end of my turn.

    I get the last feat at level 20, so no matter what I choose, it will be endgame. I forgot to mention, but yes, my stats are 27 point buy. My DM is strict when it comes to RAW and wouldn't waive the Str requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talsin View Post
    I would instead suggest just swapping STR and CON. Res(CON) comes at level 20 for him, and I think having the CON bonus earlier on will help maintain survivability after going into the squishier classes.
    Having a natural -1 to DEX isn't as big a deal for a paladin, as at level 6 they get their Aura of Protection, which would push it back up to a +3 given that build.

    If you can take the level into Hexblade earlier, it will let you hit better earlier on. I might suggestion Pal1,Hex2,Pal6 just to get access to all the hexblade goodies earlier. I also wonder if you will get more mileage out of buffing your CHA earlier instead of taking War Caster. Higher CHA will not only give you a higher chance to hit, but also (with your Aura) increases ALL of your saves including for concentration. On the other hand, War caster lets you Booming Blade on a Opportunity Attack, and lets you freely wear a shield, which is often nice.
    I could alter my progression and do Paladin 1 -> Warlock 0-2 -> Paladin 2-6 -> Sorcerer 0-12. Also, I could take Elven Accuracy at 4, from which I can get triple advantage from Darkness and Vow of Enmity, +2 Cha at Sorcerer 4, War Caster at 8, and Resilient Con at 12.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I kind of agree about the str being too high though. You could go Paladin 1, Hexblade 1 for cha to attack at level 2. That way you can leave your str at 15 and take dex out of the negatives. Dumping dex makes me cringe a bit, that's just a lot of extra damage you're going to be taking.
    I like that suggestion. It'd only affect the build for 1 level if I take Warlock at character level 2.

    I could do the following:
    Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
    15-10-15-8-10-17
    15-12-15-8-8-17

    What do you think?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Foff View Post
    Yeah this build doesn't look much like "i keep my Friends alive", it's more like you keep your enemies dead, so dead...
    It's more of an offense is the best kind of defense build. I'm not going to heal unless they are unconscious or dead (Twinned Healing Word/Twinned Revivify). Preventing damage by killing enemies and controlling their movement through Spirit Guardians is more effective than trying to outheal it.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    May 2019

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    Damon_Tor is correct that I chose Hexblade for the synergy with Elven Accuracy and using Cha to attack. It also allows Darkness and Faerie Fire to be used for advantage.

    It is feat heavy, but I don't absolutely need any of the feats to be effective like a GWM/PAM build. I would like to take War Caster early so I can use Shield/Absorb Elements/Counterspell without dropping my weapon at the end of my turn.

    I get the last feat at level 20, so no matter what I choose, it will be endgame. I forgot to mention, but yes, my stats are 27 point buy. My DM is strict when it comes to RAW and wouldn't waive the Str requirement.



    I could alter my progression and do Paladin 1 -> Warlock 0-2 -> Paladin 2-6 -> Sorcerer 0-12. Also, I could take Elven Accuracy at 4, from which I can get triple advantage from Darkness and Vow of Enmity, +2 Cha at Sorcerer 4, War Caster at 8, and Resilient Con at 12.
    Hexblade has nothing to do with Faerie fire (which is a racial ability to you) or Darkness (any old patron will do for that trick), if you want it for the Cha to attack then fair enough but remember HBC is a once per enemy per short rest synergy.

    War Caster is very important for this build by the time you hit your Sorc levels I agree, you should pursue a Ruby of the War Mage if possible. Without something like that your combat in tiers 3 and 4 (and maybe late 2) will be clunky.

    Not dumping Dex is a wise change, I'd still personally go medium armor and a +2 rather than cranking Str up that high but I understand the attachment to Plate.

    Small note on your progression though, no matter how you cut it you won't be getting Darkness before 5th level (unless you bring Sorc to the front) and that will still only be once a day until you hit Sorc 3.

    It's more of an offense is the best kind of defense build. I'm not going to heal unless they are unconscious or dead (Twinned Healing Word/Twinned Revivify). Preventing damage by killing enemies and controlling their movement through Spirit Guardians is more effective than trying to outheal it.
    Actually offense WHILST healing is best (which this build is certainly capable of), allowing team mates to go down to just try and kill the enemy fast enough is a much poorer decision than many people realise. Depending on party composition limited resources and action economy are easily lost with that method of healing and with a poor Dex mod (and no other modifiers to initiative) people could easily drop and die before your turn actually comes up to do anything about it.

    Overall the build looks like it could be a lot of fun and have a lot of potential, but I think you overstate the value of a lot of things (Spirit Guardians as a control spell in tier 3 without actively capitalising on the reduced movement, and resources that are going to help you out once per short or even long rest) and will be spending a lot of first turns in combat not actually dealing any damage (need to get FF/Darkness/VoE/HBC up).

    If possible you should try and find out what your party members will actually be, so you have a better idea what you can rely on and see what you should focus more on.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Your setup seems good, if slow to get started. If you’re not starting at higher levels you’re liable to feel underwhelming for a good while. For example, you won’t have faerie fire until 9th level. Spirit Guardians will take until 13th. By that time you’ll have only 5 sorcery points per long rest, plus whatever spell slots you wanna burn to get more. Then there are more minor things like waiting until 7th to get extra attack, or not getting metamagic until 11, and having to choose which one you’ll have to wait until 18 for.

    Darkness/devil’s sight, as you seem to be aware, is great in a vacuum but makes team play very difficult. Even if you stay at range, enemies can try to close with you and cut you off, or just ignore you entirely. While they’ll have disadvantage, your allies will also have it against them, so if they want to target you anyway it’s a net win for the enemy. There’s also the fact that you’ll have to wait until level 11 to even use it, since you only have 2 levels in warlock. By level 11 you’ll be facing enough things with blindsight-equivalents to make it a lot less useful, since in those situations it’s purely a detriment to your allies.

    You also need to seriously consider your limited resources. Your primary at-will damage will be your lackluster attacks/blade cantrips and eldritch blast, which while solid, is hardly inspiring. The warlock dip alleviates this a bit, but it’s not a cure-all. You’ll be using smites, quickening spells, casting shield/counterspell, and it all adds up. By level 10, you’ll only have the spell slots of a 5th level caster, plus 2 1st level slots per short rest. Try to figure out how many of your resources you expect to expend per fight, and how many you can afford to expend before you’re no better (or even worse) than everyone else.

    Big thing though is the aforementioned leveling difficulties, especially if you’re starting from 1. Pay attention to how long it will take for you to be able to pull off all those sick combos, it will add a lot of perspective on how useful they actually are.

    EDIT: Ack! Didn’t read the half-drow part! That gives you a lot more leeway, though overall your weaknesses remain pretty much the same.
    Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-10-04 at 10:15 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Hexblade has nothing to do with Faerie fire (which is a racial ability to you) or Darkness (any old patron will do for that trick), if you want it for the Cha to attack then fair enough but remember HBC is a once per enemy per short rest synergy.
    I know that. If it wasn't for the Drow Magic Darkness, and the inability to see in it, and Elven Accuracy requiring Dex or Cha, I wouldn't even dip Warlock and would instead look for a Belt of Giant's Strength. I chose Hexblade for Hexblade's Curse and the higher probability for criticals when not using Quickened Hold Person/Monster + Attack/Extra Attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    War Caster is very important for this build by the time you hit your Sorc levels I agree, you should pursue a Ruby of the War Mage if possible. Without something like that your combat in tiers 3 and 4 (and maybe late 2) will be clunky.

    Not dumping Dex is a wise change, I'd still personally go medium armor and a +2 rather than cranking Str up that high but I understand the attachment to Plate.
    How will my combat be clunky? I'd have +2 to Con saves plus the 3-5 for Aura of Protection. Also, even if 16 Str is too high, I'd need 15 for plate or at least 13 to multiclass if I wanted to use medium armor, but that would alter the point buy array.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Small note on your progression though, no matter how you cut it you won't be getting Darkness before 5th level (unless you bring Sorc to the front) and that will still only be once a day until you hit Sorc 3.
    And that's fine. I'd still have 1 use of Faerie Fire and Vow of Enmity if I need advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Actually offense WHILST healing is best (which this build is certainly capable of), allowing team mates to go down to just try and kill the enemy fast enough is a much poorer decision than many people realise. Depending on party composition limited resources and action economy are easily lost with that method of healing and with a poor Dex mod (and no other modifiers to initiative) people could easily drop and die before your turn actually comes up to do anything about it.

    If possible you should try and find out what your party members will actually be, so you have a better idea what you can rely on and see what you should focus more on.
    My party consists of a Bard, a Ranger, a Fighter, and myself. Both the Bard and Ranger have healing spells. My main concern is damage mitigation and DPR.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Too slow. By level 10 you only have 1 ASI which is spent on the boss, nothing to deal with the mooks before reaching him. In that sense, your built does not defend the party in the early part of the encounters.

    I believe optimal combat requires clearing the floor quickly. The tank must protect the resources of the party until they can be used on the boss. By the time you'll have the tools for that, the others have spells to do a better job at that.

    Vengeance is more an assassin build than a tank build. #roasted
    Last edited by bid; 2019-10-04 at 09:34 PM.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: #RoastMe

    I know that. If it wasn't for the Drow Magic Darkness, and the inability to see in it, and Elven Accuracy requiring Dex or Cha, I wouldn't even dip Warlock and would instead look for a Belt of Giant's Strength. I chose Hexblade for Hexblade's Curse and the higher probability for criticals when not using Quickened Hold Person/Monster + Attack/Extra Attack.
    But you CHOSE to be a variant Half Elf, you could have just been a standard HElf flavoured half drow and you need Cha as a Paladin and a Sorcerer regardless. As for quickening the Hold spells, you won't even GET Hold Person until 11th level and won't get Hold Monster until 17th Level, if you're playing from 1st you should not be basing your build around them at all, regardless of you shouldn't even be the one casting them. HBC bonus criticals will fall apart in an encounter where you aren't facing one specific big bad, if you wanted to crit fish you should have just pumped 3 levels into Fighter for Champion.

    How will my combat be clunky? I'd have +2 to Con saves plus the 3-5 for Aura of Protection. Also, even if 16 Str is too high, I'd need 15 for plate or at least 13 to multiclass if I wanted to use medium armor, but that would alter the point buy array.
    How do you plan on casting a spell requiring components? You're going to be regularly be sacrificing your first turn for set ups (that can also negatively impact the party)? I said it would be clunky, not that you'd be fragile. If you really wanted Plate and weren't using Str otherwise then you could just eat the speed penalty for below 15 Str (which isn't even that bad, and your party has the capability to cast Longstrider on you, when you eventually can even afford Plate), but switching to Medium Armor would just tweak it like this: 12 13 14 8 10 15 before racials, if you still want the odd Con, just dump Wis like you had already considered.

    And that's fine. I'd still have 1 use of Faerie Fire and Vow of Enmity if I need advantage.
    You're okay with that then cool, you just seemed to think you could pull off Darkness before then.

    My party consists of a Bard, a Ranger, a Fighter, and myself. Both the Bard and Ranger have healing spells. My main concern is damage mitigation and DPR
    If your concern was DPR then you could/should have build differently and the only damage mitigation I see if for yourself not your party (not including the Aura). Whilst those party members have access to healing spells, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be healing, after all only the Bard has Healing Word and lacks the advantage of Twinning it (nevermind that you'll be saddled with higher level slots than you have spells). Even if you're focused on mitigating your own damage, the build is suboptimal. Sorcerer is loaded with great defensive spells that you won't get access to until tier 3/4 where enemies may even be able to circumvent them.

    You wanted honesty about the build and well honestly it's very late bloomer with an identity crisis and bad action economy. You'll spend a lot of your early career struggling for resources and hp (unless said party members with healing spells keep you topped up), always looking for that next ASI or spell level. Your opening rounds in combat will be spent casting spells or buffs instead of actually dealing the damage you say you're focusing on and you haven't considered how being a sowrd and board gish actually interacts with spellcasting besides realising the Warcaster feat is pretty necessary. Try and think what you actually want the character to achieve and then remember that you're actually part of a party and don't need to set everything up yourself and take another look at the build.
    For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge

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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    You wanted honesty about the build and well honestly it's very late bloomer with an identity crisis and bad action economy. You'll spend a lot of your early career struggling for resources and hp (unless said party members with healing spells keep you topped up), always looking for that next ASI or spell level. Your opening rounds in combat will be spent casting spells or buffs instead of actually dealing the damage you say you're focusing on and you haven't considered how being a sowrd and board gish actually interacts with spellcasting besides realising the Warcaster feat is pretty necessary. Try and think what you actually want the character to achieve and then remember that you're actually part of a party and don't need to set everything up yourself and take another look at the build.
    I do appreciate the honest and useful criticism you and the other posters have given me. Maybe I should rethink it then.

    How about a Variant Human Oath of Vengeance Paladin 1-6/Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14 with 16-8-16-8-8-16? I can take Resilient: Con at 1st level, War Caster at Paladin 4, and then two ASI's after?

    What do you think about playing a Variant Human Shadow Sorcerer instead of Divine Soul? I'd get the hound and Eyes of the Dark and can skip Hexblade all together.
    Last edited by Expected; 2019-10-05 at 12:44 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2016

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Looks. Talent. Some builds have it all. How does it feel to only have looks?
    Rocking that extra attack at level seven. Don't get your bore-a until level eight.

    Most builds max their main stat at that point. Don't worry. You'll get around to that eight levels later.

    Are you trying to be some sort of coffeelock to keep yourself from falling asleep playing your boring build?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Lower Menthis

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    I don't think you need warlock at all. The build works well without it. If you take one level of hexblade, it would be to get CHA attacks so you can drop STR and just focus on CHA but then you push everything else back a level. I wouldn't take 2 warlock levels on this build.

    Here's a good example of a paladin/sorcerer from Treantmonk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSFevTby6gM

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    I do appreciate the honest and useful criticism you and the other posters have given me. Maybe I should rethink it then.

    How about a Variant Human Oath of Vengeance Paladin 1-6/Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14 with 16-8-16-8-8-16? I can take Resilient: Con at 1st level, War Caster at Paladin 4, and then two ASI's after?

    What do you think about playing a Variant Human Shadow Sorcerer instead of Divine Soul? I'd get the hound and Eyes of the Dark and can skip Hexblade all together.
    If you're going to take V Human and use to for Res Con then I'd just abandon Heavy armor tbh. Take your first level as Sorcerer then go into Paladin, you get the Con save proficieny and can use the feat for something more productive and Mage Armor will give you the same AC as plate, if you still want a shield then Draconic Sorc allows that. Off the top of my head prgoression: Sorc 1, Pal 5 (maybe 6), Sorc 5 and then the rest whatever you want but taking Paladin to at least 8 (for the ASI, HP and lay on hands).
    For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge

    Feel free to message for any build requests or challenges

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: #RoastMe

    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    I do appreciate the honest and useful criticism you and the other posters have given me. Maybe I should rethink it then.

    How about a Variant Human Oath of Vengeance Paladin 1-6/Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14 with 16-8-16-8-8-16? I can take Resilient: Con at 1st level, War Caster at Paladin 4, and then two ASI's after?

    What do you think about playing a Variant Human Shadow Sorcerer instead of Divine Soul? I'd get the hound and Eyes of the Dark and can skip Hexblade all together.
    For vhuman sorcadin I like PAM with spear and shield at level 1 so you can start the DPR train early, warcaster at 4 and when you get to sorcerer you can now use BB on an AO. If you do eventually get GWM ditch the spear for a reach weapon and now you hit like a dump truck and have plenty of slots for smites.

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