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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    So it's been a while since there was a thread on this. Just got through the first story and side stuff. I haven't played a Dragon Warrior game since...well...they were calling them Dragon Warrior. I have so many fond memories of the first Dragon Warrior Monster, a side game, and everything I'd heard about DQ11 made me excited for its release on Switch. My thoughts are a little mixed.

    It's certainly old school. Saving at certain locations only, difficult bosses that need proper tactics instead of just grinding and the grind being oh so damn grindy is a mixed bag. I'm older now with even more responsibilities than before, saving only at certain spots isn't a hold over from a bygone era that I'm exactly happy to see in a modern game. Even growing up it was a source, as a RPG player, of constant argument with my parents. The modern save any time/anywhere is an improvement and no modern game has any excuse not to have it. I know there's an auto-save but that's not really the same thing.

    It's been a long time since I've played a serious JRPG, having spent a lot of time on PC games. The grind has been fun but man is it slow. I've always remembered Dragon Warrior/Quest games to be a slower, more thoughtful affair compared to some of the other JRPGs of their time but I'm now in the second world and only level 34-36 with my characters. I just don't have the time to spend twelve hours grinding and with the crafting minigame on top of everything, fetching recipes and whatnot...I fear I won't be able to 100% the game. Which would be a bummer because I'm really enjoying it.

    The fact that there is crafting at all irks me. That's a rather modern influence all things considered and not one I'm ever really fond of. I do like that they let you buy ingredients that you've already discovered. That certainly eases the pain. More games should at least adopt that approach rather than making me farm shinies on top of grinding levels.

    Some story stuff now.

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    So as said, I am just at the point where I get to control the main character again. Splitting up to see some (not all) of the party characters was...honestly really boring to me. With no fear of being able to lose but still having to go through all the side "quests" just made it all so tedious. Just show me a few movies and move on. I wasted a few precious hours of my free time, of which I only get so much, dealing with....Slyv being nearly offensively gay...Jade fighting the good fight, a very minor bit with Erik and Rab being a perv and fighting The Grand Master twice mind you. I get what they're going for and it really brings to mind how One Piece handled its time skip. It certainly feels like time has passed as opposed to say...Fire Emblem: Three Houses...which honestly could have used a few missions in between like this. So despite liking the idea, the execution just kinda didn't land for me.

    I do however really like most of the characters, as one dimensional and very old school as they are, and Rab and Jade and the Hero's story is really touching and emotional. I really like how they incorporated Jade and Rab as actual family members into the party and even though you don't spend a lot of time with them, I certainly feel they care about you. Rab's side quest bit really hit me hard, knowing that it was all fake and seeing him come to terms with it. I wish the rest were a little more like his.

    I honestly expected Erik to betray us at some point. They drop flags for it all over the place, especially when you get to Not-Scandinavia when he dips out when you get the Blue Orb. I also already know that Veronica dies and there's post-game stuff where you get her back. That's honestly a shame, especially as she was crazy powerful in the first half of the game and she ended up winning tons of fights on her own.

    I'm looking forward to finishing the main story and working on the true ending though.


    So yeah. Tips and tricks and advice is always welcome.

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post

    The fact that there is crafting at all irks me. That's a rather modern influence all things considered and not one I'm ever really fond of. I do like that they let you buy ingredients that you've already discovered. That certainly eases the pain. More games should at least adopt that approach rather than making me farm shinies on top of grinding levels.
    You might consider crafting modern but DQ has had it since 8 on the PS2..

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    So it's been a while since there was a thread on this. Just got through the first story and side stuff. I haven't played a Dragon Warrior game since...well...they were calling them Dragon Warrior. I have so many fond memories of the first Dragon Warrior Monster, a side game, and everything I'd heard about DQ11 made me excited for its release on Switch. My thoughts are a little mixed.

    It's certainly old school. Saving at certain locations only, difficult bosses that need proper tactics instead of just grinding and the grind being oh so damn grindy is a mixed bag. I'm older now with even more responsibilities than before, saving only at certain spots isn't a hold over from a bygone era that I'm exactly happy to see in a modern game. Even growing up it was a source, as a RPG player, of constant argument with my parents. The modern save any time/anywhere is an improvement and no modern game has any excuse not to have it. I know there's an auto-save but that's not really the same thing.

    It's been a long time since I've played a serious JRPG, having spent a lot of time on PC games. The grind has been fun but man is it slow. I've always remembered Dragon Warrior/Quest games to be a slower, more thoughtful affair compared to some of the other JRPGs of their time but I'm now in the second world and only level 34-36 with my characters. I just don't have the time to spend twelve hours grinding and with the crafting minigame on top of everything, fetching recipes and whatnot...I fear I won't be able to 100% the game. Which would be a bummer because I'm really enjoying it.

    The fact that there is crafting at all irks me. That's a rather modern influence all things considered and not one I'm ever really fond of. I do like that they let you buy ingredients that you've already discovered. That certainly eases the pain. More games should at least adopt that approach rather than making me farm shinies on top of grinding levels.

    Some story stuff now.

    Spoiler
    Show
    So as said, I am just at the point where I get to control the main character again. Splitting up to see some (not all) of the party characters was...honestly really boring to me. With no fear of being able to lose but still having to go through all the side "quests" just made it all so tedious. Just show me a few movies and move on. I wasted a few precious hours of my free time, of which I only get so much, dealing with....Slyv being nearly offensively gay...Jade fighting the good fight, a very minor bit with Erik and Rab being a perv and fighting The Grand Master twice mind you. I get what they're going for and it really brings to mind how One Piece handled its time skip. It certainly feels like time has passed as opposed to say...Fire Emblem: Three Houses...which honestly could have used a few missions in between like this. So despite liking the idea, the execution just kinda didn't land for me.

    I do however really like most of the characters, as one dimensional and very old school as they are, and Rab and Jade and the Hero's story is really touching and emotional. I really like how they incorporated Jade and Rab as actual family members into the party and even though you don't spend a lot of time with them, I certainly feel they care about you. Rab's side quest bit really hit me hard, knowing that it was all fake and seeing him come to terms with it. I wish the rest were a little more like his.

    I honestly expected Erik to betray us at some point. They drop flags for it all over the place, especially when you get to Not-Scandinavia when he dips out when you get the Blue Orb. I also already know that Veronica dies and there's post-game stuff where you get her back. That's honestly a shame, especially as she was crazy powerful in the first half of the game and she ended up winning tons of fights on her own.

    I'm looking forward to finishing the main story and working on the true ending though.


    So yeah. Tips and tricks and advice is always welcome.
    How is it grindy? I worked easily through the entire game (including the bonus endgame boss), and the only thing I actually had to GRIND for were specific crafting ingredients towards the endgame, and I only did that because I'm an achievement hunter. I never once ground for experience, and the only time I got a game over was Dora In Grey (which is top 10 best boss names ever btw), because I didn't quite realize how much CC she had. 2nd attempt killed her easily, no grind required.

    If you're sitting around grinding then you either have an EXTREMELY sub-optimal party setup or just plain don't understand how the game works.

    The final boss can be a pain if you don't realize

    Spoiler: Final boss
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    That he has a huge buff that is dispelled using the Sword of Light as an item


    but in-game they do give you hints about it, and I thought it was pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2019-10-07 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    How is it grindy? I worked easily through the entire game (including the bonus endgame boss), and the only thing I actually had to GRIND for were specific crafting ingredients towards the endgame, and I only did that because I'm an achievement hunter. I never once ground for experience, and the only time I got a game over was Dora In Grey (which is top 10 best boss names ever btw), because I didn't quite realize how much CC she had. 2nd attempt killed her easily, no grind required.
    It's a JRPG, it's got a grind to it. I don't feel I have to grind, but it's absolutely there. Looking through other game forums, I'm only a level or two higher than the recommended though that seems an arbitrary line. All their advice however absolutely pointed out the grind and a lot of advice I've seen has been if you're hitting a wall, run around and gain another level or two and grind fights until you get Pep Power on as many as you're able.

    Only bosses I've had to re-try are the Gloomivore (even with stuff that helped with sleep and breath protection he was landing them on me) and Booga...because that double fight was awful and because I don't generally bother controlling all four of my party members. Will probably be doing that with all the boss fights to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    If you're sitting around grinding then you either have an EXTREMELY sub-optimal party setup or just plain don't understand how the game works.
    I haven't really bothered to check what "optimal" is for this game. I haven't really needed it though the last few bosses have made me consider that I should probably re-allocate some skills for people.

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Okay, old-school Dragon Quest (back when it was Dragon Warrior) fan here. I must say, I absolutely LOVE this game! I mean, you've got all your typical tropes, you've got Tockington for your nostalgia-bait (plus various other things scattered around as not-so-subtle callbacks) and such, but even without all that, this is a solid JRPG which actually minimizes grind quite substantially, especially if you're familiar with the series and know which mobs to try to get for minimal grinding (Metal Babbles, a.k.a. Liquid Metal Slimes, being a solid one). However, I've found it nearly irrelevant to actually actively grind, and I've been dodging most encounters offered to me throughout most of the game and actually under-leveled as far as what most guides suggest I be at and still going fine.

    I actually enjoy the crafting system. It gives you a reason to actually do all those side-quests, and a far less expensive way to obtain good gear, and usually better than you can purchase at the point in the game you are currently at that you are 'supposed' to be in. It is handled as an augment and supplement to store-purchased gear, rather than a replacement. The minigame is actually somewhat engaging, although RNG dependent and very frustrating at times.

    As a classic DQ fan, I absolutely adore the 2d mode. I'm playing it the first time in 3d, simply because that's obviously how the game was 'intended' to be played, but I honestly prefer the 2d mode. It is yet again another one of those times in which my greatest obstacle to overcome is... the camera. Just like almost any other 3d game I've ever played, and why I've never enjoyed them as much.

    Spoiler: No really, major spoilers ahead!
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    I actually liked the End of Act One Plot Twist. It reminded me of one of my favorite JRPG's of all time, Final Fantasy III (6 in current numbering). You've got a villain who wasn't dumb, and went after the hero's power base before the hero could get to it. Makes logical sense to me from a villain perspective. Granted, there was a bit too much mustache-twirling around it, but then this has always been a chewing-the-scenes Large Ham sort of franchise. It's good to have a villain who isn't always carrying the Idiot Ball. Granted, he still should've casually swatted them when he took down the thing in the sands north of Gallopolis, since they were RIGHT THERE, but I suppose you can't have everything.

    However, I also felt that the whole 'following the other characters' post-cataclysm thing was also the wrong move. It would've been FAR more impactful for, say, you to run into Eric blind and only come to realize that he'd lost his memories somehow. It would've been a better dramatic impact to let you come at it cold instead of spoil it for the player. That goes double with Sylvando. I mean... that scene where you run into him again... if you hadn't done Sylv's little scene, the sheer and utter ridiculousness and absurdity of his conveyance would've been a crowning moment of spit-take.

    I found what happened to Jade to be... rather offensive. I'm just gonna stop there on that topic and move on.

    And the fact that there wasn't a short playable scene for the twins basically gave away the fact that there was something truly wrong going on with them, so again, the dramatic tension was spoiled.

    I also kind of expected Henrick to pull a General Leo, he was just too 'noble and honorable', being more misguided and taking the propaganda as gospel than truly evil, especially in his little cutscene with Jade. I didn't expect him to survive the cataclysm, so there is that.

    The only two combats I had a problem with was Dora-In Gray, because she was the first encounter that really started getting two actions and AoE damage output and I didn't have an effective multi-heal yet other than Hustle Dance that was really MP costly, and Booga who had multi-target shut-down effects and very common group MP steal. Okay, Gyldiga also gave me a bit of trouble as well, because I was still set up for raw melee damage output and she's got stupidly high armor.


    Spoiler: skill tree discussion, possible spoilers about expanded skill trees and the identity of one of the recruitable characters
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    Luminary:
    I've been going Greatswords so far, and having a blast with it. Early game Helichopper was fabulous group targeted damage, and now that I have Unbridled Blade I am actually shrecking everything, including bosses, I run across. Even Gyldigga was not appreciating it when I hit him with an Oomphle and hit her with a Sap. However, I foresee a point in the relatively near future in which I may be swapping out to Swords since it has been hinted to me that the final weapon is a Sword (or at least Erdrea went sword and board, so I assume so), and Gigaslash is just better than Gigacrash. Gonna really miss that +25 Str, though, if I do spec out.

    Erik:
    I went down Knives for Dual Wield because Erik without Dual Wield is a sad Erik indeed. Then down Larceny to get Divide, because Eric without Divide is also a sad Erik. Once these two skills have been obtained, it occurs to me that it's surprisingly difficult to set up a Persicutter/Victimiser combo, and it's been doing less and less relevant damage (Unbridled Blade is doing comparable damage every turn instead of every other turn at minimum), and I have yet to manage to pull off the 'optimal' Divide/Persicutter combo without having it interrupted somewhere. So I've been taking him down Swords tree now that he's got Dual Wield and Divide.

    Sylvando: I started off with whips. Had an idea of applying status with Sylv then taking advantage with Erik but that never seemed to pan out because most bosses are extremely resistant to status effects. So I swapped him out for daggers, since he has extra bonus damage with daggers skills, and he's been doing quite well for himself, when not buffing with Oomphle or providing party healing with Hustle Dance.

    Jade:
    I mostly don't use her. I've got her martial arts tree and her spear tree to the point that I have Thunder Thrust, at least, for Metal Slime/Babble hunting. But outside that niche, I mostly ignore her.

    Rab:
    Didn't really use him at all until Act 2. He's a useful enough caster, I suppose. Claws are a sucker's bet, though.

    Veronica:
    I actually didn't see her doing as much as I thought I would. Usually in Dragon Quest games, the blaster ends up doing the most damage, but her damage output was surprisingly lacking, despite a focus on Heavy Wands and Vim. But hey, she never ran out of MP and she was always available for debuffing enemies.

    Serena:
    Someone had to be the healer, she does a good job at it. Dual-wielding wands seems like a sucker's bet compared to using a shield and having more defense and at least a small chance of blocking. If your healer goes down, you're pretty much screwed. Don't know why she's got a spear tree, never found it relevant. I suppose early on I could've done some Metal Slime grinding with it down on Gallopolis near the southern campsite with Lightning Strike if I had wanted to, but it just really wasn't necessary.

    Henrick:
    About as iconic a definition of the Soldier class as you are likely to encounter, albeit with the added advantage of some healing and surprisingly useful buffing with both Kabuff and Magic Barrier on tap. I went Axes and Shield with him, and haven't regretted it so far. Seems a waste for him to go Greatsword since he's got a whole Shield tree, and axe skills are just more useful than sword skills. Trying to get up into his Heroics tree is mildly annoying, but worth the entry price.


    tl;dr: If you are a fan of the DQ series, you are doing yourself a disservice by not picking this up. I really feel sorry for the fellows who picked it up on the PS4 for the DQ8 outfit preorder bonus. This really is the definitive version, with much more polish and refinement put into it.
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    I just hit Gyld, wiped but I generally enter fights like this to just see what kind of abilities they have. Didn't have any problems with the boss fight before so I think I'm finally in the groove. It's a cheap game, imho, that has to both load up boss fights with extra actions and a ton of ways to just deny you turns though. That's not a challenge, that's just making things a climb for the sake of it. Especially if there's no actual strategy to counter it/work around it. Switching characters doesn't solve the problem either, since you can't heal/help them when they're not in the line up.

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    I've been debating getting this game, but I'm unsure if I should get the Switch or PC version. At the moment I've been playing more Switch on handheld mode, is it adequate to play that way? Is the extra content on the Switch worth the higher price point?

    Also, how is the replay value/difficulty? I like to try other builds on higher difficulties once I actually understand the system well enough if possible. Are there difficulty settings?

    Thanks a bunch.


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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    As far as I know, the Switch version has more content than the PC version so if that's what you'd like...probably go with that. There really doesn't (I'm not done with the game) seem to be many other optional builds, every character has a skill tree but...they're kinda eh...but there are difficulty modes and optional things you can tweak to make the game harder/different. At least on the Switch version.

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    I've been debating getting this game, but I'm unsure if I should get the Switch or PC version. At the moment I've been playing more Switch on handheld mode, is it adequate to play that way? Is the extra content on the Switch worth the higher price point?

    Also, how is the replay value/difficulty? I like to try other builds on higher difficulties once I actually understand the system well enough if possible. Are there difficulty settings?

    Thanks a bunch.
    In my opinion, take it for what you will:

    Go for the Switch version. It has more content, and the 2d mode is going to make you feel like you're playing one of the old retro NES Dragon Quest games... if it had over eighty hours of content. While you might not get the most out of the 3d game or the 3d cutscenes (and you will be missing out on some of the most amusing scenes I've seen in a video game), it is entirely playable portable, especially in 2d mode.

    Replay value is extremely high. With multi-forked skill trees for each character, there's several possible builds for each one. Erik can go knives, or swords, or boomerangs, each one has different strengths and weaknesses. Boomerangs hit all enemies, but doesn't have the per-hit damage output that swords or knives do. The various skills are going to be different as well. You can't use Metaliker (a Boomerang move) while using swords, as an example.

    Couple that with a New Game Plus mode, with the ability to put in whatever handicaps you like... and you have a game with more replayability than any other JRPG I've ever played, and that explicitly includes Chrono Trigger and its thirteen possible endings.
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
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    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Couple that with a New Game Plus mode, with the ability to put in whatever handicaps you like... and you have a game with more replayability than any other JRPG I've ever played, and that explicitly includes Chrono Trigger and its thirteen possible endings.
    Okay, that gets my interest. I beat the PS4 version, and I agree with the FFVI comparison, but more replayability than Chrono Trigger? That is a weighty claim and I am curious if you can back it. I've seen they've expanded the little marriage side-quest at the end of the game, but it's basically multiple flavors of the same thing.

    Chrono Trigger provided a baker's dozen of endings, many of which were tailored to a specific point in the game, from episodes where Marle is revealed to be part frog or where reptites held their planetary dominance to the "dream team" ending where all the heavy hitters of the dev team were allowed to leave a message for the players. DQ11 is an exceptional game with an exhaustingly huge level of content, and the re-release seems to double down on that, but the replayability doesn't strike me as exceptional. What does the Switch version offer that rivals Chrono trigger?

    Spoiler: Complaints about the marriage side quest
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    I have to say I was never a fan of the marriage side quest in this game. After getting Cobblestone back up and running, you do a dungeon, fight a boss, and wish you were married. And suddenly you are. After that, there's a trip to the top of the hill and a conversation. The spouse seems all for this, but their opinion is not even considered when the wish is made, so it seems kinda weird. Not mind control, but reality revision. It just doesn't feel earned.

    Personally, I favor DQ8's approach. The guard and the princess had a history before the curse, and the two continued to work together through the adventure despite the curse. Then the curse is broken and the guard is given the opportunity to interrupt her marriage to the properly nicknamed Prince Charmless, eloping with her when she chooses the guard over her obligations (with her father's blessing and the guard's friends' support). Or, in the remake, you can choose Jessica, and it still feels earned.

    That's probably the only real problem I have with DQ11, honestly. Everything else is awesome, but this feels tacked on and awkward. Well, that and the frustrating crafting mini-game. I got pretty good at it, but it was never anything but tedious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Okay, that gets my interest. I beat the PS4 version, and I agree with the FFVI comparison, but more replayability than Chrono Trigger? That is a weighty claim and I am curious if you can back it. I've seen they've expanded the little marriage side-quest at the end of the game, but it's basically multiple flavors of the same thing.

    Chrono Trigger provided a baker's dozen of endings, many of which were tailored to a specific point in the game, from episodes where Marle is revealed to be part frog or where reptites held their planetary dominance to the "dream team" ending where all the heavy hitters of the dev team were allowed to leave a message for the players. DQ11 is an exceptional game with an exhaustingly huge level of content, and the re-release seems to double down on that, but the replayability doesn't strike me as exceptional. What does the Switch version offer that rivals Chrono trigger?

    Spoiler: Complaints about the marriage side quest
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    I have to say I was never a fan of the marriage side quest in this game. After getting Cobblestone back up and running, you do a dungeon, fight a boss, and wish you were married. And suddenly you are. After that, there's a trip to the top of the hill and a conversation. The spouse seems all for this, but their opinion is not even considered when the wish is made, so it seems kinda weird. Not mind control, but reality revision. It just doesn't feel earned.

    Personally, I favor DQ8's approach. The guard and the princess had a history before the curse, and the two continued to work together through the adventure despite the curse. Then the curse is broken and the guard is given the opportunity to interrupt her marriage to the properly nicknamed Prince Charmless, eloping with her when she chooses the guard over her obligations (with her father's blessing and the guard's friends' support). Or, in the remake, you can choose Jessica, and it still feels earned.

    That's probably the only real problem I have with DQ11, honestly. Everything else is awesome, but this feels tacked on and awkward. Well, that and the frustrating crafting mini-game. I got pretty good at it, but it was never anything but tedious.
    There are some things in common with both games that help. For example, both games have more characters than you can have in a party at a given time, and you have multi-character combos you can use depending on who is in the party at any given time. So simply changing around who is in your party can dramatically change your strategy. DQ11 takes it a step further by also giving each character multiple skill trees, so depending on their build they might play quite differently and have different combos with other characters. This alone gives it substantial replay potential, as you explore less 'optimal' but still enjoyable combinations and conquer challenges in a different manner. But that's just the icing on the cake.

    Most of Chrono Trigger's endings, other than the 'classic' one, involve going into it as a New Game Plus and detouring at specific points in the plot to win the game. Many of these are ones that are already known to you... for example, you can ram Lavos as soon as you get the Chrono Trigger... heck, you can technically fight Lavos without ever going time traveling by hitting up the portal made when the necklace first does its thing. And there's the bucket in the transitional place where the Old Man literally tells you that you can get to Lavos with. So these things are hinted, but practically you can't really do them until you get into a New Game Plus mode. Most of the endings are amusing, but they are unlocked, effectively, by performing certain challenges, beating Lavos at specific parts of the game, generally through a specific method.

    DQ11 Definitive Edition for the switch has something very similar, although you don't get different endings for your trouble (I don't think). It has what is called 'Draconian Mode'. You can challenge yourself by doing things like not purchasing items from stores (you can still pay money for missing components at the Fun Sized Forge, I think), giving you a focus on crafting or finding gear. There's a challenge toggle that makes enemies harder, sort of like the Vicious tag but for everything including bosses. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Some of the challenges make you look at the game in a different light, or make you think laterally or outside the box to overcome. Some of them, I will grant, are what I consider 'artificial difficulty spike' by just throwing bigger numbers around, but some of them actually make you reconsider your progression and how you approach challenges in a fundamentally different way.

    Then there's 2d mode. It's almost like playing a different game that happens to have the same plot and characters. If you played the DS versions of the Dragon Quest games 1-6, you're going to love it. Just playing it in 2d instead of 3d mode alone is such a refreshing change of pace. No longer do enemies appear on the screen to be dodged or hunted down, but you go back to the old-school step counter. Your main character's Repel spell is no longer a trap to try and dive for, but an actually useful tool. Holy Water becomes relevant as something other than a way to do guaranteed damage to Metal Slimes/Liquid Metal Slimes. Maps are subtly changed to fit the 2d experience, but it is no less challenging for the change.

    Oh, Draconian Mode is, I believe, only available in 2d mode. So there's that too.You've got at least three different playthroughs, one in 3d mode, one in 2d mode, and one in New Game Plus Draconian Mode. Maybe more if you want to play with multiple or different combinations of limitations.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I haven't gotten to the marriage part yet, but I've been given to understand that it has been improved in some way. I do know that Gemma has always had a major crush on you from the very beginning of the game, and has always been 'waiting for you' ever since you first left with your Charm of Rubissis/Erdrick's Token in hand. It's not exactly mind control to convince her to marry you, she's been wanting to do that for the entirety of the game. She's done everything but outright state 'Senpai Notice Me' to try to get your attention throughout the game in any scene she's in. I don't know how much more blatantly obvious her attraction to your character could possibly be.

    I happen to mostly enjoy the crafting minigame, but I can understand the frustration.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2019-10-08 at 12:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    2d mode alone sounds like a great excuse to play the game again, I'll admit. The increased content is also extremely attractive - I've seen a cutscene on YouTube where Rab is given a chance to relive the best moments in his life, including one that didn't happen (where his home didn't fall). It's wonderfully heartrending and awesome.

    Draconian modifications never attracted me, I like a good story not needless obstacles.

    Unfortunately, the entire party is "always" together in DQ11, so any scene that requires a certain combination is readily available at any time, unlike CT. There's really not much that changes depending on your configuration. By the time you win the game it's not hard to have every character's boards completely filled and you can try out all the different combinations and play styles, and the plot and the outcome doesn't shift in any meaningful way between runs. That said, the game is so incredibly well done and fun that it's still enjoyable to play through a few times.

    Spoiler: Marriage (again)
    Show
    The fact that you could marry Gemma wasn't the problem - there was enough setup for their bond. So why the hell did the Luminary need a Dragon Ball-style wish to marry her rather than just walk up to her and say "wanna get hitched?"? Give me a quest where the Luminary goes to hell and back to collect exotic materials to build the most exquisite ring. Or just frickin' wish for said ring to do things properly. But, no. Suddenly, they're married. Just like that. No lead up, just "she kinda has a less-than-subtle crush on me" and then "she's living in my house and my mother's quietly moved out". It's just weak.

    The Switch version does things a little differently. I looked into it because, as I said, it was the one element of DQ11 that really irked me. You can wish to be married and the big guy now counters this with the question "Marry who?". Most everything else is the same, as you still have to do the entire Cobblestone Reborn quest before you can wish for it. Now, however, you can ask to marry your party members instead. This includes Jade, Serena, and... somewhat uncomfortably... Veronica, who is still an adult in a younger body. Looked like the male party members are also on the list, but I haven't seen the videos for them. The ones I have seen run the same as with Gemma. "You wanna marry that one? Good. Bam! You're married. Now go home and enjoy wedded life." They then stand by the bed and ask if you want to call it a night, along with a little commentary on married life in Cobblestone.

    You can then go on a "date" with them, walking back up to the top of the hill the game started with. At the top, they have a cut-scene that differs based on the spouse.
    * Serena makes the Luminary some stew. She is just grateful she gets to stand by the Luminary's side and pledges to remain there forever.
    * Veronica forces him to take a nap and claims that the Luminary needs someone to look over him or he'll burn himself out.
    * Rain breaks out as Jade gets to the top and by the time it's over she's cold. She decides some vigorous exercise is the ticket to warm up and starts a sparring match with the Luminary.

    They're interesting additions, and the cut-scene really shows their characters, but they don't fix the weak structure of the quest. I would rather have had an additional cut-scene when the wish was made where the spouse-to-be reacts to the wish with shock and panic. "W-wh-what? Are you serious?! B-b-but...!" and all that, before talking themselves through things and concluding that's what they want, too. Maybe having Rab talk it through with Jade or Serena and Veronica hash out why it wouldn't work out and why that ultimately doesn't matter.


    EDIT: Oh, good grief. I just saw footage of 2d mode. Dang it, I now absolutely need to buy the Switch version.
    Last edited by Calemyr; 2019-10-08 at 03:48 PM.
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    1 Sentient Sword
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    1 Godwin Point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
    It appears someone will have to saddle my goat, for we now must ride out in glorious battle.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    So, just hit the end-game for the core non-post game stuff. My opinions haven't changed too much, especially as I work through the Tockletown stuff. Man but the random encounter rate is absurd and running is a pain even when I'm vastly over-leveled. That's the sort of grind I'm talking about. Running from the non-2D enemies is easy enough if I want to avoid fighting, but 2D mode just jacks you up. The story's sort of petered out too, as I approach the end.

    It was a nice bit, playing as the various side characters. Sylvando's was probably the worst of the five. A shame we didn't get to play as Serena though. It was also clear something was up with Veronica since we didn't get to play as her or even hear about her.

    Rab's was probably the best, and mercifully the shortest and without having to fight with NPC support. I've said before that I felt the story between Jade, Rab and The Hero was the best writing and Rab's illusionary life that could be really drives that writing home. If they'd delved more into those types of emotions, I wouldn't be so lukewarm on the other characters. The other flashbacks you get before you fight the Gloomivore helps flesh out everything there too. As much as I'm not a fan of time travel, and feared that was going to be a major part of this story, they've done it a more tasteful and less grating way. I'd even dare to say it's not even time travel, even if you are bouncing around the timeline.

    Erik's side bit was cool, having a dedicated healer as an NPC was nice and the payout later in the story made the whole exercise worthwhile. Not a whole more to say on it.

    Jade's....I can totally see why people have a hard time with it. It's a game for kids, so I doubt anything truly nefarious and dark happened but the game totally doesn't shy away hinting at it. The whole loss of agency thing is something I feel games probably can't do too much anymore in the modern era. That's probably for the best, at least when it's a kids game.

    Sylvando's was the most annoying. Not just because I find Sylvando to be a hideously tired and trite representation of homosexuals that Japan just absolutely adores to use all over the place, but it's just such a break from the tone of everything that came before that it veered on tonal whiplash. Also creating a whole slew of new, simpering, dolled up stereotypes didn't make me too pleased. Boy. A whole bunch of NPCs that'll annoy me every time I have to go back to that one town.


    Now that I've got the whole team back, the bosses have become easier. Knowing they're going to do a bunch of nonsense has also helped. Booga was probably the one I had the most issues with. I'd heard a lot of talk about the Aural Serpent but I took him down on my first try, along with all the other bosses that followed. I even apparently did a few out of order and found them all to be pretty fun all things considered.

    Working to clear through all the Tockletown quests and just general story quests before I settle down and beat the big bad. I've heard the post-game stuff is quite robust so looking forward to doing that too. Though I'm only sitting at about 50 hours. I don't forsee getting anywhere close to 70 by the time I'm done with all that. I've heard the game is about 100 hours long, is there really like...40 more hours of content in the post game?

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    So, just hit the end-game for the core non-post game stuff. My opinions haven't changed too much, especially as I work through the Tockletown stuff. Man but the random encounter rate is absurd and running is a pain even when I'm vastly over-leveled. That's the sort of grind I'm talking about. Running from the non-2D enemies is easy enough if I want to avoid fighting, but 2D mode just jacks you up. The story's sort of petered out too, as I approach the end.

    It was a nice bit, playing as the various side characters. Sylvando's was probably the worst of the five. A shame we didn't get to play as Serena though. It was also clear something was up with Veronica since we didn't get to play as her or even hear about her.

    Rab's was probably the best, and mercifully the shortest and without having to fight with NPC support. I've said before that I felt the story between Jade, Rab and The Hero was the best writing and Rab's illusionary life that could be really drives that writing home. If they'd delved more into those types of emotions, I wouldn't be so lukewarm on the other characters. The other flashbacks you get before you fight the Gloomivore helps flesh out everything there too. As much as I'm not a fan of time travel, and feared that was going to be a major part of this story, they've done it a more tasteful and less grating way. I'd even dare to say it's not even time travel, even if you are bouncing around the timeline.

    Erik's side bit was cool, having a dedicated healer as an NPC was nice and the payout later in the story made the whole exercise worthwhile. Not a whole more to say on it.

    Jade's....I can totally see why people have a hard time with it. It's a game for kids, so I doubt anything truly nefarious and dark happened but the game totally doesn't shy away hinting at it. The whole loss of agency thing is something I feel games probably can't do too much anymore in the modern era. That's probably for the best, at least when it's a kids game.

    Sylvando's was the most annoying. Not just because I find Sylvando to be a hideously tired and trite representation of homosexuals that Japan just absolutely adores to use all over the place, but it's just such a break from the tone of everything that came before that it veered on tonal whiplash. Also creating a whole slew of new, simpering, dolled up stereotypes didn't make me too pleased. Boy. A whole bunch of NPCs that'll annoy me every time I have to go back to that one town.


    Now that I've got the whole team back, the bosses have become easier. Knowing they're going to do a bunch of nonsense has also helped. Booga was probably the one I had the most issues with. I'd heard a lot of talk about the Aural Serpent but I took him down on my first try, along with all the other bosses that followed. I even apparently did a few out of order and found them all to be pretty fun all things considered.

    Working to clear through all the Tockletown quests and just general story quests before I settle down and beat the big bad. I've heard the post-game stuff is quite robust so looking forward to doing that too. Though I'm only sitting at about 50 hours. I don't forsee getting anywhere close to 70 by the time I'm done with all that. I've heard the game is about 100 hours long, is there really like...40 more hours of content in the post game?
    I have 101 hours in the steam version and I haven't even touched the most grindy part of the post game. The post game is that long. I stopped playing because apparently I have a THING where I can't beat games but I'm going to pick up the Switch version sometime in December as my brother's annual membership ceases and we switch to a family plan and I can turn in my game vouchers.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2019-10-10 at 09:03 PM.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    I have 101 hours in the steam version and I haven't even touched the most grindy part of the post game. The post game is that long. I stopped playing because apparently I have a THING where I can't beat games but I'm going to pick up the Switch version sometime in December as my brother's annual membership ceases and we switch to a family plan and I can turn in my game vouchers.
    Well that's promising. I know you sort of play through the first part of the game again, or at least that's how it seems from what I've seen. They mentioned all the sky islands got dropped so I suspect there'll be more to do with the whale when you rewind time.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Man but the random encounter rate is absurd and running is a pain even when I'm vastly over-leveled. That's the sort of grind I'm talking about. Running from the non-2D enemies is easy enough if I want to avoid fighting, but 2D mode just jacks you up. The story's sort of petered out too, as I approach the end.
    You aren't using Holy Water or the Repel spell found in the Hero's Luminary tree?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Well that's promising. I know you sort of play through the first part of the game again, or at least that's how it seems from what I've seen. They mentioned all the sky islands got dropped so I suspect there'll be more to do with the whale when you rewind time.
    Spoiler: Not Exactly - postgame spoilers
    Show
    You don't replay the first part of the game, you replay the second, starting with when you first reach Yggdrasil proper (with all six orbs). Only now, your hero's overleveled (they keep their stats from the endgame, unlike the rest of your party) and bears Mordegon's Sword of Shadows, which cuts through the otherwise invincible Jasper like wet paper when tries to take you down. The fact that you win that one fight radically changes how things go from then on. A lot of old problems resolve themselves in different ways without you (so it's not totally repetitious), while other problems open themselves to solutions you couldn't have done before.

    Worth noting that your character doesn't get to keep their endgame memories, exactly. They get flashes of it, like realizing Jasper's going to attack a second before he actually does or being very uncomfortable around King Carnelian even though he doesn't know why. The rest of the party lose their upgraded character boards, but unlock even stronger upgrades when they break through again. Also, the party (outside the Luminary) have their stats and equipment restored to exactly what they were when you spoke with Archbishop Benedict before reaching Yggdrasil the first time - which can be pretty nice if they were equipped with unique gear at the time that was unequipped before Jasper's attack, ultimately duplicating it in the postgame. It's less nice if you spent every stat seed you had on, say, Eric.


    The post game is just as big as either half of the main game.
    Spoiler: My inventory:
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    1 Sentient Sword
    1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
    1 Godwin Point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
    It appears someone will have to saddle my goat, for we now must ride out in glorious battle.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    You aren't using Holy Water or the Repel spell found in the Hero's Luminary tree?
    I focused more on Swords/Swordmanship than the Luminary line honestly. So no, didn't use those. I tend to not use many items in RPGs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Spoiler: Not Exactly - postgame spoilers
    Show
    You don't replay the first part of the game, you replay the second, starting with when you first reach Yggdrasil proper (with all six orbs). Only now, your hero's overleveled (they keep their stats from the endgame, unlike the rest of your party) and bears Mordegon's Sword of Shadows, which cuts through the otherwise invincible Jasper like wet paper when tries to take you down. The fact that you win that one fight radically changes how things go from then on. A lot of old problems resolve themselves in different ways without you (so it's not totally repetitious), while other problems open themselves to solutions you couldn't have done before.

    Worth noting that your character doesn't get to keep their endgame memories, exactly. They get flashes of it, like realizing Jasper's going to attack a second before he actually does or being very uncomfortable around King Carnelian even though he doesn't know why. The rest of the party lose their upgraded character boards, but unlock even stronger upgrades when they break through again. Also, the party (outside the Luminary) have their stats and equipment restored to exactly what they were when you spoke with Archbishop Benedict before reaching Yggdrasil the first time - which can be pretty nice if they were equipped with unique gear at the time that was unequipped before Jasper's attack, ultimately duplicating it in the postgame. It's less nice if you spent every stat seed you had on, say, Eric.


    The post game is just as big as either half of the main game.
    Yeah, just started though it was late so I didn't get to really dig in. Good to hear that it's pretty long, I was getting into the game by the end. The last few boss fights were pretty good.

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