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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by zinycor View Post
    What is considered texting for you? Cause people have lives outside of the game and checking on their phones every once in a while I'd absolutely ok in my opinion.

    I have only had a problem when people are actively playing a game on their phones or go on a whole tangent that gets them absolutely distracted from the game.
    I agree with you here, if a person has a life that is so important that they can't stop and play a game for a couple hours, they would be best to simply go and live their life.

    I want players in the game that what to do nothing except play the game, not people who just view the game as a distraction between texts.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid Tony View Post
    I agree with you here, if a person has a life that is so important that they can't stop and play a game for a couple hours, they would be best to simply go and live their life.

    I want players in the game that what to do nothing except play the game, not people who just view the game as a distraction between texts.
    Then you should really treasure the players you have, since they can allow themselves to worry only about their game like that and that definitely isn't easy to come by.
    Last son of the Lu-Ching dynasty

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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    My 2 cents on the texting thing; For me, it's contextual. A quick text to let a family member know you'll be home late? Fine. Someone watching for texts regarding a loved one in a serious situation? Sure you can still play, you need the distraction from real life, but also need to stay up to date. Constantly texting a new Significant Other? Yeah, both the party and your new SO want your full attention. Please pick one instead of disappointing everyone.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    My 2 cents on the texting thing; For me, it's contextual. A quick text to let a family member know you'll be home late? Fine. Someone watching for texts regarding a loved one in a serious situation? Sure you can still play, you need the distraction from real life, but also need to stay up to date. Constantly texting a new Significant Other? Yeah, both the party and your new SO want your full attention. Please pick one instead of disappointing everyone.
    Completely agree.
    Last son of the Lu-Ching dynasty

    thog is the champion, thog's friends! and thog keeps on fighting to the end!

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Again, is it impacting the game? Is stuff repeated? Is the player not ready for their turn in combat? Then there's a problem.

    If they can manage the multitasking, I don't worry about it.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    I absolutely hate the relationship most people have with their phones, and the idea of kicking someone out with no warning for texting once during a game still feels extreme. For most things the idea of immediately booting someone without warning or discussion does feel toxic to me.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Just imagine the world before cell phones: It must have been chaos! How did anyone know what everyone else was doing every instant of every day for the entirety of their lives.

    Un ... be ... lievable.

    If someone can't keep their hands off their phones for 3-4 hours, they don't play at my table. Of course, my friends are as old as I am, so ... it's frankly not an issue, at all.
    Last edited by Kaptin Keen; 2019-10-11 at 12:43 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Generally I find texting isn't a huge problem anymore, but social media is something I'd make a no-no while playing.

    I'd assume if they were doing texting, it'd be something important.

    Then again, I've not had that problem with anyone in our gaming group.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Just imagine the world before cell phones: It must have been chaos! How did anyone know what everyone else was doing every instant of every day for the entirety of their lives.
    I'm 47 and started playing when I was 11, so I know how it went "before" : If a player had any sort of responsibility for that weekend, then the game was cancelled. Or he would be distracted, because he wanted to play but thought "I shouldn't be here" the entire game.
    Personally, if a player wants to check on their spouse to know if the kid got back from his friend's birthday party, text a loved one to tell them they will be late, or needs to have their phone because they are on standby call duty for their job? I'm cool about it, because I kinda like the idea of playing with my friends, including those whose lives got a lot more busy than mine since college. We can even have regular breaks once in a while so that they can do it (and go to the bathroom / smoke outside / get stuff out of the fridge) without missing stuff going on at the table.

    Social media and phone games are irritating, though.

    But that discussion shows that it's another example of things that look completely reasonable for some, and a ban-level offense for others, though. Another argument for the need of addressing those things explicitely before play.
    Last edited by Kardwill; 2019-10-11 at 04:00 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    zinycor's Avatar

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Just imagine the world before cell phones: It must have been chaos! How did anyone know what everyone else was doing every instant of every day for the entirety of their lives.

    Un ... be ... lievable.

    If someone can't keep their hands off their phones for 3-4 hours, they don't play at my table. Of course, my friends are as old as I am, so ... it's frankly not an issue, at all.
    I believe that you are talking past everyone, as far as I can see people are arguing that the occasional text or update over your phone is absolutely ok (things like telling your SO you are going to be late or an update on a home situation, etc), meanwhile you say "How did anyone know what everyone else was doing every instant of every day for the entirety of their lives. ", which hasn't been implied by anyone.
    Last son of the Lu-Ching dynasty

    thog is the champion, thog's friends! and thog keeps on fighting to the end!

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Depending on the game, asking 100% attention 100% of the time is not reasonable.

    I've played high crunch games where people took multiple minutes per turn, and we had 6+ people at the table. That's 15 minutes between your turns, plus GM time. It's not reasonable to expect people to pay 100% attention to 15 minutes of other people calculating which square gives them the most bonuses.

    People are not going to do that, phones or no. If they don't have phones, they'll doodle, or look at advancement options, or something

    What is reasonable is to expect that people pay attention when they need to. In the situation above, I don't care if someone checks out for most of that time. I do expect that they pay attention as it gets close to their turn, and are fairly ready to act when their turn rolls around. If they are, then I don't care what they do. If they don't do that, then I also really don't care why they're distracted - the fact that their distraction is slowing down the game is the problem, not the particular form of the distraction.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    {scrubbed}
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-10-11 at 03:40 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Texting is a symptom of the problem, or possibly a cause of the problem, but it isn't the actual problem.

    The problem is people who aren't paying attention, at times when it slows down the game.

    If Bob never takes his phone out, but needs the tactical situation explained to him again on each turn, and never gets involved in group decisions, then he's not taking part. That's a problem.

    If Carol is constantly texting, but is always ready with a planned action when her PC's initiative comes up, and always has a cogent suggestion when the group is making a decision, then the texting is fine.

    Here's a solution I've had to use, I think, twice in forty years.

    DM: OK, Ted, it's your initiative. What does Stronginthearm do?
    Jon: Hmmm. I'm not sure, which was the goblin who shot at me?
    DM: Stronginthearm looks around and takes his bearings. Somebody help bring Ted up to speed, and I'll get back to you later in the round. Alice, what does Bramblerose do?

    Note that it doesn't matter if Ted was texting. Maybe he went to the bathroom. Maybe somebody spilled the salsa on him. Maybe he was helping his child with math homework, or ordering the pizza, or bringing me a beer. I don't care. He'll get his turn, but right now I'm going to keep the game running.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    My 2 cents on the texting thing; For me, it's contextual. A quick text to let a family member know you'll be home late? Fine. Someone watching for texts regarding a loved one in a serious situation? Sure you can still play, you need the distraction from real life, but also need to stay up to date. Constantly texting a new Significant Other? Yeah, both the party and your new SO want your full attention. Please pick one instead of disappointing everyone.
    This is my experience too. A quick back and forth isn't a problem, but it's best if people aren't trying to multitask while playing, and ongoing conversations disrupt that. However, we do need some flexibility -- there are people I'm glad to be campaigning with that simply wouldn't be able to play if they couldn't react to texts from work/family.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Am I the weird one in the room that takes advantage of people being on their phones to deliver secret information?

    I love texting players game info and I actually tell my players to keep an eye on their phones in case I need to tell them something. It's sooooooo much easier than telling everyone to leave the room, or taking the player in question outside for a moment. It's even easier than passing out paper notes IMO, because of how much attention they attract and how some people still try to peek. There's a lot strong social norms about it being uncool to peek at someone's phone, and I use that to ensure secret info remains secret.

    Making their phones an aid to gameplay goes a long way to reducing them as a distraction.
    Last edited by False God; 2019-10-12 at 11:10 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Murikumo View Post
    Here's a weird one: when you help a player so much they literally don't learn the system. I've seen this with a group i briefly played with. The person in question had their character written for them and didn't know how to add stats to get final results with rolls. It happened ALL session. He was never taught how to do it himself so he would ask the person next to him who would mentally do the math and tell him the result.
    I used to have one of these. I've been playing D&D with him on-and-off since 2002, and he still can't build a 1st level character, or remember how even the simplest spells work. He can kinda read his character sheet but doesn't do so with total confidence. I always wondered whether he actually enjoyed D&D or just came because it was the only way he could hang out with all his friends at once. These days, I don't play with him anymore because most of us have moved away from our hometown, he doesn't have transportation, and it would be too much of an inconvenience for someone to go out of their way to pick him up.


    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    Am I the weird one in the room that takes advantage of people being on their phones to deliver secret information?

    I love texting players game info and I actually tell my players to keep an eye on their phones in case I need to tell them something. It's sooooooo much easier than telling everyone to leave the room, or taking the player in question outside for a moment. It's even easier than passing out paper notes IMO, because of how much attention they attract and how some people still try to peek. There's a lot strong social norms about it being uncool to peek at someone's phone, and I use that to ensure secret info remains secret.

    Making their phones an aid to gameplay goes a long way to reducing them as a distraction.
    I love this in concept, but I don't think I could make it work personally unless I was also using my phone for other game-related stuff like character sheets and info, tracking initiative/hp/ongoing effects/etc., and I generally prefer to use a laptop for that kind of thing.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I love this in concept, but I don't think I could make it work personally unless I was also using my phone for other game-related stuff like character sheets and info, tracking initiative/hp/ongoing effects/etc., and I generally prefer to use a laptop for that kind of thing.
    Depending on the messaging app you're using, there are a few that also work on PC (like Skype or Discord). You can also get phone emulators for the PC that allow you to run phone apps off your computer. Not sure how well they work for texting though, haven't done that in a LONG time.
    Knowledge brings the sting of disillusionment, but the pain teaches perspective.
    "You know it's all fake right?"
    "...yeah, but it makes me feel better."

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I think it depends on group make up. I inevitably have people who are there because their spouse/sibling is who don't care so much about the game, and if their attention slides off of the game it takes roping them back. I don't know how people find groups without that issue, but it seems omnipresent to my experience as a player and DM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Murikumo View Post
    Here's a weird one: when you help a player so much they literally don't learn the system. I've seen this with a group i briefly played with. The person in question had their character written for them and didn't know how to add stats to get final results with rolls. It happened ALL session. He was never taught how to do it himself so he would ask the person next to him who would mentally do the math and tell him the result.
    Depending on the person, this can be a manageable situation. I played with a friend for years who had no interest in learning the rules. He would describe what he wanted his character to do (and in D&D, he always played Fighters). I prepared his character sheet with everything worked out in advance. He had no problem playing original D&D, 1E, 2E, Flashing Blades, or even Champions. His characters were always good allies.

    The only problem occurred rarely, when his intuitive idea of what an action should do didn't match the rules. But he was always ready, engaged, and active in the game despite not knowing the rules.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Faily's Avatar

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Texting is a symptom of the problem, or possibly a cause of the problem, but it isn't the actual problem.

    The problem is people who aren't paying attention, at times when it slows down the game.

    If Bob never takes his phone out, but needs the tactical situation explained to him again on each turn, and never gets involved in group decisions, then he's not taking part. That's a problem.

    If Carol is constantly texting, but is always ready with a planned action when her PC's initiative comes up, and always has a cogent suggestion when the group is making a decision, then the texting is fine.
    This is pretty much my experience with phones (and other distractions at the table). Some people can multi-task just fine and use their phone when it's not their turn, and someone else who isn't even on their phone needs to be reminded of the sitution on their turn.

    During Pathfinder, I use my phone a lot because of the Masterwork Tools app (so I can look up anything I might wonder about). I've frequently been drawing or doodling during play over the years as well - and I focus better if I can do these things. But I fully realise that my situation is not like everyone else's.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    People are not going to do that, phones or no. If they don't have phones, they'll doodle, or look at advancement options, or something
    Dice arrangement (including pyramids) and wax sculptures (when we were young and foolish and played by candlelight) and the occasional snore are also popular options for bored/distracted/tired players. ^^

    I find the noisy options more problematic, like tangential conversations or loud dice rolling "for stats".
    Last edited by Kardwill; 2019-10-14 at 04:27 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The toxicly nontoxic group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kardwill View Post
    Dice arrangement (including pyramids) and wax sculptures (when we were young and foolish and played by candlelight) and the occasional snore are also popular options for bored/distracted/tired players. ^^

    I find the noisy options more problematic, like tangential conversations or loud dice rolling "for stats".
    Ha, I actually have a player who regularly dozes off.
    As he is nice, polite and works crazy hours, we tend to forgive him and only mock him from time to time.

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