The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    My unfinished build was a Gnoll Barbarian whom Yeenoghu brought back as a death knight. The stub was something like Gnoll Death Knight Arcane Hunter Ranger 1/Barbarian 5/Black Blood Cultist 10. It had issues, and I abandoned it without trying too hard to work them out.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    My spares were a Weredire Polar Bear Frost Giant using Brutal Throw and Far Shot to stay out of range of spells (Who I named the Ferounthrope Jarl) and a half-dragon Fire Elemental using Awaken Spell Resistance and the Epic Arrow deflection feats to force other people to close and fight it one on one.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Mine was a Karsite Hexblade... Didn't go far enough with not enough stats to qualify for anything I wanted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Falontani View Post
    Mine was a Karsite Hexblade... Didn't go far enough with not enough stats to qualify for anything I wanted to.
    Wait, wait... Three of us had karsite plans? Did the no-spell restriction just push people to the race with the exact same restrictions?
    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Honestly the fastest way to make a paladin fall is to cast the grease spell or to trip the paladin.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    Wait, wait... Three of us had karsite plans? Did the no-spell restriction just push people to the race with the exact same restrictions?
    I assume so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Now I kind of wish I'd something with Gnomish Artificer. I completely forgot about the class until now.

    Maybe lose the ability to cast spells later in the career? (I think the Iron Chef competition for the class had a build that used that trick).

    Or could Shadowcaster qualify for the class? Once you're into GA, take the feat(s) that convert the mystery from spell to SLA and from SLA to Su.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Now I kind of wish I'd something with Gnomish Artificer. I completely forgot about the class until now.

    Maybe lose the ability to cast spells later in the career? (I think the Iron Chef competition for the class had a build that used that trick).

    Or could Shadowcaster qualify for the class? Once you're into GA, take the feat(s) that convert the mystery from spell to SLA and from SLA to Su.
    That might get an Elegance penalty for the build violating the rules at at least one point in its progression, though it would ultimately be up to the judge, of course.

    What feats are there that allow the Shadowcaster to change spells to SLAs and SLAs to Su? I'm only aware of Supernatural Transformation, but that has the caveat that the SLA in question has to be 'innate' and may not apply to more than one mystery in any case.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by NontheistCleric View Post
    That might get an Elegance penalty for the build violating the rules at at least one point in its progression, though it would ultimately be up to the judge, of course.

    What feats are there that allow the Shadowcaster to change spells to SLAs and SLAs to Su? I'm only aware of Supernatural Transformation, but that has the caveat that the SLA in question has to be 'innate' and may not apply to more than one mystery in any case.
    Hang on, it's... Favored Mystery. Huh, you can even apply it to the same mystery multiple times. This idea just got a lot more viable.

    And they do count as arcane spells (while you're in the appropriate levels, and before you use Favored Mystery on them). Although it's questionable whether any would count as "from the Illusion school" for the Gnomish Artificer requirement.

    EDIT: Something like Shadowcaster 5/ Gnomish Artificer 1/ Shadowcaster +2/ Gnomish Artificer +9. Now all those mysteries are SLAs, so you only need one feat each to convert them to Su (to save on feats, probably pick the best few mysteries multiple times). That still leaves you 3 CR to play with.

    EDIT 2: Or X 4/ Shadowcaster 1/ Gnomish Artificer 10/ Y 5. This saves some feats, and you could have more levels in Shadowcaster if you wanted by taking the same mystery each level (this gives you more uses). I think I prefer the first version for having more mysteries even if you need to burn more feats, though a particularly great class for X could change my mind.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-11-05 at 04:14 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    Wait, wait... Three of us had karsite plans? Did the no-spell restriction just push people to the race with the exact same restrictions?
    In a contest where you explicitly have to be no-spellcasting, Karsite is probably somewhat of a low-hanging fruit, especially when running CR instead of LA

    That said ... if the no-spellcasting restriction had been loosened somewhat, allowing for Spell-likes, I'd probably have ended up in some sort of DragonAdapt/Binder, sorta similar to my offbeat Knight emulation in Zinc Saucier when that were still around
    Last edited by Sian; 2019-11-05 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Week 'til the judging deadline. Figured I'd make a check-in post to see how things are going.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Any judges?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    I recall someone having come forward to volunteer before the reveal, but now they disappeared...
    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Honestly the fastest way to make a paladin fall is to cast the grease spell or to trip the paladin.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    My ideas are all tripping over the various restrictions, even when it's just incidental, so I think I'll judge this round. Will post criteria soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    Chalk me up as interested in judging this comp. Would be interesting to see how to build a quality entry for a Villain Comp in the future and I don't mind helping out the forum.
    Here's the two potential-judges I found up-thread. Hope they're okay...
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Well, lets hope so.

    As I am still too tired of judging from last round to give it a go.
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Here's the two potential-judges I found up-thread. Hope they're okay...
    Wish I could judge, but I'm snowed under with a new job with lots of hours. I can't really put in the time and effort into judging all the entries to a standard of judging that I'd be happy with.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    I am trying, but I'm not going to commit to judging. Haven't had time since the round was posted though
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    I'd be happy to judge if nobody else steps up, as long as no-one has any issues with that?
    WINNER! Villainous Competition XXXII: Selene, Bride of Ruin
    Silver Medallist Villainous Competition XXVI: Faras Alnahr, Dark Scion of the Hippo God


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    I don't mind people judging, no.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionheart View Post
    I'd be happy to judge if nobody else steps up, as long as no-one has any issues with that?
    Rock on, my dude.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-11-18 at 07:40 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Earlier in the thread I did say I would submit, though I did not ever do so due to work getting busy. Now, work is not busy and I can see there is still no judges. Would anyone mind if I judged? I can probably have results in by the end of tomorrow if everyone is ok with it.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    I continue not having a problem with people volunteering to judge.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I continue not having a problem with people volunteering to judge.
    I just wanted to make sure people weren't uncomfortable since I did say I was going to submit earlier. Though I personally have no way to prove I didn't submit, the chairperson can confirm (if they desire) that I didn't.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Nah, no problem. If you had submitted, the Chair would say soething. Happened before :)

    And the more judges the better, in my humble opinion. :)
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    Nah, no problem. If you had submitted, the Chair would say soething. Happened before :)
    Yeah, this. If you've ever wondered "wait why are some people permanently banned from a no-stakes super-small-scale internet competition", this is why.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    Nah, no problem. If you had submitted, the Chair would say soething. Happened before :)

    And the more judges the better, in my humble opinion. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Yeah, this. If you've ever wondered "wait why are some people permanently banned from a no-stakes super-small-scale internet competition", this is why.
    Like I said, I wanted to gague the audience to make sure I wasn't going to upset anyone. This is, after all, supposed to be friendly. I'll sit down, do most of my judging tonight, and then post my stuff tomorrow.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Go for it; no complaints here!

    (Even if you had submitted a build, you could still judge if you withdrew it from the running. As long as you don't have a stake in the results, I doubt anyone will mind!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
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    Optimization Trophies

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Pretty much what everyone said. I'm swamped for the next 15 days, so I can't even properly get time to come here. Couldn't retract even if I wanted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Honestly the fastest way to make a paladin fall is to cast the grease spell or to trip the paladin.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Ok, I'm done judging. Do I just toss the results of my judging up with comments? People message the Chairman with rebuttals right?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    Ok, I'm done judging. Do I just toss the results of my judging up with comments? People message the Chairman with rebuttals right?
    That's how it works, yes. Excited to have a judge. :)
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XXXIV: Sword and Board

    Judging Criteria:
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    All categories start with a 3 as a baseline, except originality which starts at 6.

    Originality:
    0-1 Build was total ripped from another forum or is clearly a simple reskin of an already pioneered build with little to no changes.
    2-3 The build is mostly a standard build with only minor modifications, but still clearly recognizable as a known build from previous competitions or forum posts.
    4-5 More has been changed, but the build is not uniqe or has not been made to be one's own.
    6-7 The build has elements of other known builds, but together it is not a cookie cutter of any one other build easily recognizable.
    8-9 Minor changes that still rely on known elements of other builds but do take extra effort to change those build expectations.
    10 A wholesomely original build or one that so majorly changes a known or existing build that it fundamentally changes it's functionality sufficient to be nearly unrecognizable from the source material.

    Elegance:
    0 The build does not meet the criteria of the challenge or uses known broken, unacceptable, or inappropriate material in the build.
    1 The build meets the criteria, though by technicality alone or known broken, unacceptable, or inappropriate materials or methods are used, though to a less aggregious level.
    2 The build meets the criteria by RAW, though it is not in the spirit of the challenge or known broken, unacceptable, or inappropriate materials are used in a one-time or very limited way.
    3 The build is compliant with the challenge and does not use any known broken, unacceptable, or inappropriate materials or methods. No special effort is taken to makethe special restrictions shine and no effort is taken to make the potential weaknesses and turn them in to a shining point in the build.
    4 Unique, eye catching, or interesting work arounds are performed while still keeping in the spirit of the challenge.
    5 Mind-blowing ways of weaving in the restrictions with all other parts of the challenge.

    Competence and Power
    0 The build is utterly incapable of performing the task it is supposedly capable of performing.
    1 The build is capable of performing the task, but only in very limited, unique, or specific circumstances, and the build does not also include the means to create those limited, unique, or specific circumstances for itself.
    2 The build is capable of performing the task, but only in very limited, unique, or specific circumstances and the build does have the ability to create those, or a build that can complete it's designated function under some normal circumstances, but not most or all.
    3 The build is capable of performing it's designated task in most or all normal circumstances.
    4 The build is able to apply it's function to circumstances that ordinarily wouldn't be applicable to it's function.
    5 The build has managed to apply it's function to nearly all possible circumstances in the game, well beyond the standard expectation of similar builds.

    Memorable Villainy
    0 Absolutly not memorable, or ripped straight from a highly publicized or known villain from other works of fiction.
    1 Has something, albeit small, memorable about it. Villains modeled after highly publicized or known villains from works of fiction, but have been altered though not sufficiently to mask the source material.
    2 Is slightly memorable, but could be considered to be a "normal enemy" later in the game. Can be modeled after a know or highly publicized villain, though additional effort is taken to mask the source material identiy.
    3 A relatively memorable or original villain that or one that is sufficiently personalized as to not immediately look like a known or publicized villain, though upon in-depth evaluation connections can be made.
    4 very memorable, one that when defeated the party will talk about for sessions to come, or one that is mostly an original creation of villainy with few ties to works of fiction.
    5 Epic in memory, one that will be discussed years from now when your group gets back together after you have spouses and kids. A wholly original villain that strikes fear in to the mind of the player.


    1. Amorph Prime: 15
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    Originality - 6.5
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    The use of an ooze with special modifications is pretty original, though it is on a standard ubercharger chassis which is pretty unoriginal. I don't feel like any special effort was taken to change the ubercharger build aside from Fast Healing a bunch. With all of those epic level feats, I definitely think that more could have been done to really make this build come in to it's own and change the perception of this uberchargin ooze.


    Elegance - 2
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    I know the build said no spellcasters (no SLAs, PLAs, Spellcasting, or Psionics) and that technically doesn't rule out Supernatural Abilities, but the spirit of the challenge was to create a mundane villain, a non-magical beatstick. As the Chairman stated:
    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    it was fully intentional actually. so many optimization contests center power around spellcasting. now you have to think outside of that box. a pc, an npc, a bbeg, they can all be not caster's and still be effective, they all do have group members after all, most of the time to fill other needs. there's nothing saying the campaign is zero magic, just this one monster in it.
    In that light, I think that creating a magic weapon of a creature is absolutely against the spirit of the challenge. I would have been much more interested to see attempts made to expand upon the extraordinary abilties of a creature, or find a way to make a villain far less reliant on magic equivalent features.


    Competence and Power - 2.5
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    The build is powerful, once per day. The rest of the time, any archer with +1 arrows can split the creature down and kite around all day. Being an ooze and only able to move a 10 feet normally is really debilitating to a charger build, and only being able to bypass this once per day is really a heavy blow to the overall competence and strength of the build. Further, I don't think the split is optional. A rapid shooting archer can quite easily hit with multiple shots and drop you in to 4 parts each with 1/4 of the health. Even with fast healing, any other party members getting to act before your abysmal initiative are very likely to be able to take out one of the blobs, and when the fast healing brings you above 10 HP, you would just split again in to 2 more blobs with 5 hp each. Not exactly an optimal position to be in.


    Memorable Villainy - 4
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    I think the memorablility of this villain is it's strongest point. It is unlikely that any adventuring group would expect such a potent creature at any level they encounter it, and at most levels that creature will stand to take out at least one PC, especially if it can leverage an ally or supporing caster to give it a surprise round. It also stands a chance at really locking down a spellcaster and potentially taking them out entirely if they are unprepared. I definitely think that this villain would be talked about at lest for a few sessions and only slightly reminds me of villains like voracious eaters from the Claymore Anime/Manga. Very well done on the memorability in my opinion.



    2. Eve - 15
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    Originality - 7.5
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    Depending on the CR you're using as an adventure seed, this can range anywhere from 2 points to 4 points, being anything from a slightly evil Frankenstein's Monster to a pretty interesting story in the Mother of Mockeries. I also greatly appreciate that the build is not just an ubercharger using the standard build.


    Elegance - 0
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    Domain Feats are specifically called out on page 52 of Complete Champion as being spell-like abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Champion pg 52, Domain Feats
    "Unelss otherwise noted, the benefit granted by any domain feat is a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level"
    As such, Death Devotion is not a valid feat for your build to utilize, however Knowledge Devotion is since it is specifically called out as extraordinary in nature.
    Additionally, as with Amorph Prime, I do not think supernatural abilities are in the spirit of thie challenge. If you didn't have the disqualifying element, I would award 2 points for this as well since you're not breaking the rules by RAW, but not within the spirit of the challenge in creating a mundne villain.


    Competence and Power - 3.5
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    Compared to other beatsticks, this one is - on average - a little better thanks to the supernatural abilities. Even though I don't agree with them in the spirit of the challenge, I do think that they add to the potency of the build. You have the defenses to stand and fight and you have the damage to be a threat. Right where you want to be and better than the average in my opinion.


    Memorable Villainy - 4
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    This, i think, is again the strongest point of the villain. I really think this can stick in the minds of the players and I think the slaying of this villain would be cause for stories in-game and out of game for at least the rest of the campaign, though I think it might fall short of the epic level of years to come. If framed well, this could be that epic, though it can also be framed poorly very easily.



    3. Karate Kitty - 16.5
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    Originality - 8
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    I really do like this build in general. It doesn't use standard or cliche methods for achieving the goal and it goes in a different direction by making a itty bitty ankle biter that is a real pain in the neck. I like it.


    Elegance - 2
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    As with the others, I really think that loading up on Supernatural Abilities to technically compete with the specific rules goes entirely against the concept of a non-magical beatstick that this challenge was getting at in the heart of it. Because the whole build hinges on the (su) ability alternate form from the lycanthropy template, I'm hesitant to give it anything higher than a 2.
    On another note, which I could be wrong on, I think your ability scores may be slightly off. In order to apply all of the templates in the various orders necessary, a petal should modify the elite array with -8/+10/+4/+4/+0/+8 which is modified by Half Dragon to be +0/+10/+6/+6/+0/+10, then by Effigy Creature to +4/+8/-/-/11/1 (setting your Wisdom and Charism as static), then with incarnate construct as +4/+8/(4d6)/(4d6)/11/3. With Hybrid Form of your Voidmind Magebred Mineral Warrior Cat, you would get additional +0/+10/+10/+0/+2/+0 putting you at a total +4/+18/(4d6)+10/(4d6)/13/3. Starting at 13/12/11/10/8/9 with your +1 strength/+3 Dexterity that would put you at 18/30/X/X/11/3, where X is a rolled stat. Just a mathematical point, rather irrelevant as that is obscene for a tiny creature.


    Competence and Power - 3
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    I'm curious as to how well exactly the build would trip or deal damage, but you are relatively resistant to physical damage. You've set yourself up in such a way to be able to do something nearly all the time, and for that you've got props, but I'm not sure that it has quite the punching power or sustainability in combat as other builds, relying very heavily on AC and not having much in the way of elemental resistances. 18/12/7 aren't all that high for CR 20 saves. Overall, it can do the thing, but I don't think it's particularly exceptional at doing the thing.


    Memorable Villainy - 3.5
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    Oh yeah, this will be one of those comedic villains. Hiding in plain sight as a housecat, and the BAM just like a cat. This certainly has a memorability to it. How much, I'm unsure. It depends on the framing, and with the expedition report I would definitely find this memorable in a primarily comedic way. I would definitely talk about it over the course of the campaign, but probably not regularly at future sessions and definitely not for years to come.



    4. Severus, Knight of Ghostly Thorns - 15.5
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    Originality - 7
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    I love the idea of a ghost that goes around slashing enemies with a "eldritch blade" and terrorizing them. Love it. BUT, tis not all that original. It's not a direct rip off of anything in particular, so no penalties there and the build itself does go out of it's way to be unique even against other demoralize builds, so I give it a C+.


    Elegance - 2
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    "making it perfectly legal for this comp" true, but as I've said in my opinion completely against the spirit of the challenge.


    Competence and Power - 3
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    The damage is heavily reliant on multiples of dice and being able to get the sneak attack on a regular basis which you have done effectively. I don't think this build is necessarily any more powerful, nor any weaker, than a comprable type of build.


    Memorable Villainy - 3.5
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    This really heavily relies on the framing and the situation and can range from very memorable to just being a very spooky enemy we remember fighting once.



    5. Azm - 16.5
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    Originality - 8
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    This concept is really really cool for a villain. I dig it.


    Elegance - 0
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    When the main schtick of the character revolves around supernatural abilities in a competetion that is supposed to highlight a mundane character, I don't think that is in the spirit of the competition. Additionally, the contest was to build an "old school sword and board" which, I really don't think this hit the mark for that even remotely. Azm is more of a recon, information gatherer than a fighter. It *can* fight, but that is not it's forte in my opinion.


    Competence and Power - 4
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    This is difficult. On the one hand, you have all the power of a binder. On the other, you need a body to do combat. On yet another hand (three hands now) Azm doesn't look like he's designed for combat, so that's not really a problem. Compared to other non-combat focused builds, this one is very solid.


    Memorable Villainy - 4.5
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    Oh yeah, no doubt. The way this one is framed from beginning to end, very nice. I have no doubt that this will make people talk for quite some time.



    6. Sword Master -
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    I don't belive the "Past Life (Wild Shape)" Feat is present in 3.5. When googling I only get responses from D&D Wiki and when looking at them, the source of the feat apears to be from "Secrets (AEG)" published by Alderac Entertainment Group which I believe makes it third party content and thus not available for use in this competition. If I've arrived at this in error, please notify the chairman and I'll judge accordingly, but as of now I do believe this build is disqualified.


    And that's all she wrote. I'm actually surprised I got this done, there was an immense number of source diving to make sure I knew enough about the builds to speak intelligently on them.
    Last edited by AnimeTheCat; 2019-11-21 at 02:15 PM.

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