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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Dimers's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticHarmony View Post
    @Dimers Forgive me! I am not as familiar with the Egyptian Gods/desses (part of why I think it will be fun playing this). I decided to go with Set instead of Charon as he is closer thematically to what I want while still being a God who will approve of me being quasi-undead AND using a Death Worm. We should totally team up to conquer Osirion once we get what we want from An Bhail 😈
    It's not up to me to forgive. Maat will weigh your heart, and if you are found wanting, Sobek will consume your soul.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    It's not up to me to forgive. Maat will weigh your heart, and if you are found wanting, Sobek will consume your soul.
    That will be difficult, I gave up my soul many moons ago. Sobek will simply have to go hungry after my death
    Last edited by ChaoticHarmony; 2019-10-10 at 01:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanne Collins
    Strange things did happen here, no stranger would it be if we met at midnight in the hanging tree


  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Henry the 57th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeMonsters View Post
    I agree CR +2 is strong and honestly anything CR +3 is just.. wow.
    But losing 2 class levels already is a huge kick in the stack for characters. A wizard two levels because a human wizard is definitely taking a loss at being a vampire or something of that nature.
    Now sure if you take a template and you are a Fighter, it might help having a str boost but your losing out on BAB an Saves as well as HD. Remember those CR are empty levels. So a 8th level Fighter is two whole HD down from a 10th level and for a caster thats even worse given that they could be losing even more HP and Caster Levels.

    So imagine in a tenth level game you are a 7th level wizard, with only 7 HD and only throwing at best your first few level 4 spells while a tenth level human wizard is comfortably slinging 5th level spells has 10 HD, Saves, etc. Definitely a hit.

    Just remember with Lycantrophy a Lion has a CR of 3 with Lycantrophy adding a +1 So your talking 4 empty levels and 6 class levels for a Were-Lion.
    Yeah, thatís the sort of thing Iím having a hard time with. It doesnít seem fair to pick on a lycanthrope like that, but some of these undead templates seem too strong for a level tax of only 2.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    I'd be interested. Not sure what kind of character yet.

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    Edit: Well, that 4 is begging to be compensated or removed by a template.
    Last edited by Athaleon; 2019-10-10 at 01:29 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Henry the 57th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Alright, after mulling it over Iíve come to a decision.

    All undead templates carry an additional tax of +1 CR to account for their power and immunities. I reserve the right to apply this to any other template that I deem too powerful for its current cost.

    Sound fair to everyone?

    @Janwin: Grave Knight is acceptable under these conditions.
    "All generalizations are false."
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry the 57th View Post
    Yeah, thatís the sort of thing Iím having a hard time with. It doesnít seem fair to pick on a lycanthrope like that, but some of these undead templates seem too strong for a level tax of only 2.
    Yep, it's looking like the undead templates tend to have a higher power level than other similar CR templates.

    Like if we compared Lycanthropy, it has the shapeshift, DR 10/silver, +2 AC and a net of +4 in stats (+2 Wis, +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha). That's CR +1. It's still pretty good (you don't have to do CR +4 for werelion, since the CR is just +1 to apply Lycanthrope (the base creature, your PC, is higher than the lion CR, so the lion CR is ignored)). It's not bad at all, and that's definitely a good deal for 1 level. Even for 2 levels, that's still a pretty good deal.

    If we compare an undead CR +1 (we can look at Juju Zombie since it's already approved), for the same level difference you get +1 more natural armor, undead traits, channel resistance +4, -5 DR, 10 fire resistance, immunity to cold and electricty, immunity to magic missile. It gets a net of +2 more in stats, 2 free feats and +8 to a skill.

    So it just looks like undead templates are more powerful in general. It seems like the template creators took into account that undead don't have races and built it into their ability score increases. So removing the race from undead characters and having all Templates cost +1 level seems pretty decent for evening them back down to base characters with no templates.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry the 57th View Post
    @Janwin: Grave Knight is acceptable under these conditions.
    Cool! An undead PC that doesn't perma-die sounds great to me, even for 3 levels. Will be neat giving it a try. Never played an undead game before.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    ...derp.

    (10d10)[7][3][8][10][8][5][9][10][5][8](73)

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Potentially interested, mulling a couple of possible hooks to explain why one is willing to venture into a death-jungle at the behest of a lich. Let's see what the dice say...

    Spoiler
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    The dice say point buy, loud and clear.
    Last edited by The_Snark; 2019-10-10 at 02:06 PM.
    Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Are we using Traits in this game? Doesn't really matter one way or another to me, but just determining if I should look at them to add more flavor to the character.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    I am using them along with a fitting drawback (coward). After all, fear is her great drive.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Henry the 57th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Janwin View Post
    Are we using Traits in this game? Doesn't really matter one way or another to me, but just determining if I should look at them to add more flavor to the character.
    I wasnít planning on it, no
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Oh. I just assumedTraits/Drawbacks were OK as first-party SRD material. I really like them for adding background flavor, stuff that doesn't relate to class or race.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Alright, you may have up to two traits, though in exchange you must take one drawback.
    "All generalizations are false."
    -Me

    Please remeber the impotence of poofreading everything you right.

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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Interesting, lets see what I roll.
    Spoiler: Rolls
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Point of order for the Lycanthrope argument.
    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature or base animal (whichever is higher) +1
    So that means if the animals cr is higher you use that so yes a werelion would be cr5

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    I still need to do equipment and fluff, as well as make a sheet for his companion, but here is Marik Ankh
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanne Collins
    Strange things did happen here, no stranger would it be if we met at midnight in the hanging tree


  18. - Top - End - #78
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Interested. Thinking Kitsune Oracle.

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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    7 point buy? eww. I'll take the 20.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle


    Spoiler: Background
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    Sir Darrik Highwater grew up the son of a minor noble and from an early age it was suspected the boy was bound for a great destiny. Nobody could have foreseen the destiny that awaited the young boy, however.

    His younger years were spent learning from his father in all manner of war and conquest. It was a time of turmoil in the lands he called home, with open rebellion on the parts of the peasantry. The Highwater family gained quite a reputation for ruthlessly putting down any such rebellion in their lands, and the young Darrik learned the heartlessness that was required to maintain power.

    As he grew into a man, he began to lead his father's armies. Now sworn to the god Asmodeus, the anti-paladin general expanded his families lands by laying siege to the neighboring baronies. Wherever the populace resisted, he enacted the policies of his father and crushed it in whatever manner necessary.

    Eventually, it came time for Darrik to make a name for himself and he decided on the continent of Sarusan. While little is known of the island today, even less was known of it two centuries ago when Darrik was alive. The island was known to exist, and there were rumors of riches beyond imagination, and that was exactly what it would take to elevate the minor noble house to a major seat of power. And so, Darrik gathered a small fleet and an army to his side, and set out to the island.

    What the fleet found was horrifying, and Darrik led his men directly into slaughter against the vile monsters of the island. As his men fell around him, devoured by all manner of abomination and even the jungle itself it seemed, Darrik fought with a grim resolve until the very end. Even to his last breath, he held out hope that he might prove victorious and lead his house into a future of splendor. But in the end, he too fell at the claws of some unspeakable horror.

    The next he knew, he was alive again...no, not quite. But also not dead. He could see his armor move when he moved his arm, but he felt that something was missing. Fortunately, that feeling didn't last for long as an abomination noticed that one of the corpses left from the slaughter was moving. A large maw bit down on his head and it all went dark again.

    ...and then it wasn't. He was once again...alive? Maybe? Sort of? He wasn't the type to look a gift horse in the mouth, so he climbed to his feet and looked around to discover the rotting corpses of the men who fell around him. They appeared to have been dead for some while now, even though it only felt like moments to him. He set off back toward where his ships were anchored.

    On his way back, a monstrous beast jumped at him from ambush, and tore into him as he collapsed to the ground. There wasn't any pain, which was odd, and he did everything he could to fight it off. One man, however, grappled by an enormous monster was doomed to fail, and so everything went black again.

    ...and then once again wasn't. This was getting strange, tiring and annoying. Every time he blacked out, it slowed his progress in gaining those vast riches.

    Eventually, he managed to make it back to his fleet, and the sight was anything but welcoming. Before him, the ships were dashed against the rocks of the coast. Their ragged sails flapped against the remaining upright masts, and the sheer amount of wear on the ruined hulks was far more than could have been done in the day it felt it had been.

    He found one surviving rowboat, rigged a small mast, and set out to sea to attempt to return home. Even if he found the riches now, he had no manner to transport them back, and his expedition was over. He was no navigator or sailor, however, and he soon found his small craft wrecked on another island. There he discovered a lich, An Bhais, who promised that he could make his family rich and remove the curse that afflicted Darrik.

    Since then, Darrik has been sworn into service to the lich, and in time he has grown to worship the lich as his new god.

    His house has long fallen to the worn pages of history, but if he finds the phylactery he hopes that An Bhais will restore his house, grant him the wealth he originally sought, and return him to his life before death so that he may resume his rightful spot in history that was so cruelly stolen from him.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAlmightyKue View Post
    Point of order for the Lycanthrope argument.
    Challenge Rating: Same as base creature or base animal (whichever is higher) +1
    So that means if the animals cr is higher you use that so yes a werelion would be cr5
    But your base creature is your character, which is level 9 (+1 CR). 9 > 4.

    Base creature OR base animal.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Janwin View Post
    But your base creature is your character, which is level 9 (+1 CR). 9 > 4.

    Base creature OR base animal.
    It depends on if you consider templates being applied after class levels. If you read it as Cr X/Class X or Class X/CR X/Class X

    Most people would say the cr adjustment would come first meaning the class CR is 0 or at best race meaning CR 1/2 vs CR 4

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    looks like this is still open so..
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    edit
    the simple advanced template is a CR 1
    +2 on all rolls, increase natural armor by +2, +4 to all ability scores
    Last edited by samduke; 2019-10-10 at 04:42 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Oh my goodness, a mid level Pathfinder game, and nobody invited me! I am absolutely in.

    I will likely take a day or so to go over potential concepts for this one, as there are already a number of applicants and potential ideas that I think might fit the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Desaqqara View Post
    You divine bastard.
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  25. - Top - End - #85
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAlmightyKue View Post
    It depends on if you consider templates being applied after class levels. If you read it as Cr X/Class X or Class X/CR X/Class X

    Most people would say the cr adjustment would come first meaning the class CR is 0 or at best race meaning CR 1/2 vs CR 4
    Huh. I would've assumed the template's adjustment is ongoing instead. It starts out high, but once the class level rises to be equal to the animal's CR, it's just a flat +1. So, just +1 for the purposes of a L9 were-lion in this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3SecondCultist View Post
    Oh my goodness, a mid level Pathfinder game, and nobody invited me!
    Hey, 3SC, you should come check out this mid-level Pathfinder game! I'm so helpful.
    Last edited by Dimers; 2019-10-10 at 04:51 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Apologies, I forgot about the rolls. Here we go, one more prayer to the number gods.

    Spoiler: Bones to the Void
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    It would seem that the gods are displeased with my offering, more fools they. I shall have to press on without them.
    Last edited by 3SecondCultist; 2019-10-10 at 04:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Desaqqara View Post
    You divine bastard.
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    "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it."

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Hmm, not sure if I want to take Spirit Guide, or Divine Herbalist.

    HP: (10d8)[2][4][1][4][4][6][5][4][6][7](43)

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    Rerolling the 1 (taking first non-1) (5d8)[1][5][5][3][1](15)

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    I suppose I should roll too.

    Spoiler: dice roll
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  30. - Top - End - #90
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Mid-Level Pathfinder] Rumble Through the Jungle

    I'll have to consider if I can do a negative three levels and no racial traits.

    Might have to reconsider that construct path

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