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Thread: Divine Might

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Divine Might

    In 3.0, Divine Might was a must-have feat for any martial focused character with Turn Undead. Then in 3.5 it got nerfed hard, from lasting rounds equal to your Charisma bonus to just one round, and now I never see anyone take it. Any thoughts on what would be a balanced version? My feeling is about 2 or 3 rounds but I'm not sure...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus View Post
    In 3.0, Divine Might was a must-have feat for any martial focused character with Turn Undead. Then in 3.5 it got nerfed hard, from lasting rounds equal to your Charisma bonus to just one round, and now I never see anyone take it. Any thoughts on what would be a balanced version? My feeling is about 2 or 3 rounds but I'm not sure...
    The lesser of Charisma Modifier and Divine Spell Level.
    Clerics are capped at 9 rounds if they could boost their Charisma up to 28.
    Paladins are capped at 4 rounds if they could boost their Charisma up to 18.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Maybe have it scale with HD? A number of rounds equal to 1/4 your HD rounded up, maybe. (That’s a totally arbitrary number that shouldn’t necessarily be taken super seriously.)
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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Wasn't the old version a standard action to activate? The newer free-action version seems like an upgrade in many cases -- whenever action economy is more important than conserving TU attempts.

    I'm in favor of giving players more choice and bigger numbers, so I'd go with both. A single feat that you can use quickly for a one-round benefit or slowly to get several rounds' worth.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Wasn't the old version a standard action to activate? The newer free-action version seems like an upgrade in many cases -- whenever action economy is more important than conserving TU attempts.
    No, it didn't mention an action to activate it at all.

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    The New better version of Divine Might is the Law Devotion Feat.

    Swift Action to activate, benefit lasts 10 rounds. Each round as a free action you can reallocate the bonus to one of two choices.
    • Attack Rolls
    • AC


    Bonus is +3 from Levels 1 to 9
    Bonus is +5 from Levels 10 to 14
    Bonus is +7 from Levels 15 to 20

    Law Devotion gives you 1 use per day, but expend 3 turn undead uses on the fly and you can use it again.
    Thus a Cleric who uses all their turn undead attempts is guaranteed 2 uses per day, 3 uses with Charisma 16, 4 uses with Charisma 22, and items / feats can give you more uses. A Reliquary Holy Symbol (1k gold in MiC) gives you at least 1 turn undead use per day (up to 3 but it is not worth taking the improved turning feat, 2 uses if you have a divine feat which is not the same thing as a domain / devotion feat.) Nightstick gives you 4 more uses of turn undead for 7.5k.
    Pretty much my point here is that it is easy to get at least 3 uses per day and if you dedicate wealth you can get up to 5 uses of day without going insane on the wealth by level.

    -----

    While Attack Rolls or AC is not the same as Damage, Divine Might required Power Attack to qualify for. Thus assume a similar build with Power Attack+Law Devotion can easily make a 2:1 damage if the Cleric or Paladin uses a two handed weapon, or a one handed weapon and use both hands to wield it. [Use a buckler on your forearm leaving your hand free. It specifically says in the item type you can use a buckler and a two handed weapon or a one handed weapon with two hands.]

    So in effect Law Devotion returns similar / better returns to damage than Divine Might, it lasts 10 rounds, and lastly you can swap the bonus to attack to the AC if its beneficial.

    -----

    And if you are Cleric / Paladin also going the Lady Gambit's Feat from the Dragon Magazine for even more bonuses to attack and damage (by sacrificing hit points.) Lady Gambit requires having Power Attack and Iron Will but you can now get Iron Will as a bonus feat for 3k Wealth By Level due to that magical location.

    Also the Holy Warrior Reserve Feat specifically for Clerics with the War Domain. Keep a War Domain Spell in a Slot and you get a +1 to +9 damage with your weapon. (Requires 4th level spells so you can't get it till HD 7.)
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2019-10-12 at 04:18 PM.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by HouseRules View Post
    The lesser of Charisma Modifier and Divine Spell Level.
    Clerics are capped at 9 rounds if they could boost their Charisma up to 28.
    Paladins are capped at 4 rounds if they could boost their Charisma up to 18.
    Base attack might be better, giving nicer abilities to 9nth level casters vrs casters off handedly might be more balanced.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Law Devotion gives you 1 use per day, but expend 3 turn undead uses on the fly and you can use it again.
    That could work, use the 3.0 version but make its activation cost as per Law Devotion.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus View Post
    No, it didn't mention an action to activate it at all.
    Which means it defaults to a standard action. It's also explicitly stated in the explanation of Divine Feats in Defenders of the Faith, and the version in Complete Divine still defaults to standard with "These feats often take a standard action to activate, but may require other actions as specified.", emphasis added.
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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Holy Warrior (bonus damage = spell level of highest level war domain spell prepared) is also decent for clerics.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Which means it defaults to a standard action. It's also explicitly stated in the explanation of Divine Feats in Defenders of the Faith, and the version in Complete Divine still defaults to standard with "These feats often take a standard action to activate, but may require other actions as specified.", emphasis added.
    So it does, thank you.

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    I'd say the reason that nobody takes it anymore isn't that it got nerfed, it's that 3.0 didn't have Divine Metamagic. Or power creep in general, really.
    People just have other, better options to spend their TU attempts on now.
    Adding some damage to your hits for a few rounds doesn't really compare to free Persistent Spell after all, which does it all day and plenty more besides.

    And then there's also Holy Warrior which also does it all day just for having a spell prepared. So it's hardly a surprise that Divine Might doesn't fit into most builds anymore, it's been eclipsed by other options.
    Last edited by sleepyphoenixx; 2019-10-14 at 12:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Divine Might

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post

    Law Devotion gives you 1 use per day, but expend 3 turn undead uses on the fly and you can use it again.
    Actually, my understanding is that you need to allocate Turn Undead attempts to the Devotion feat on a permanent basis when you take the feat. Complete Champion p52.

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