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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Get them both (two of four form talents at 20th, and this is scheduled for 25th, if we get a DM). That gives it a caster level equal to it's hit dice (15, at 20th) to qualify for Circle Casting. It can also use it's other feats for magic talents (other than conjuration) - which it can lend you. And you can cast out of it's spell point pool. Which means you can get basically any non-Conjuration talents from them.
    that's not how it works, they have a higher CL for that specific ability, it doesn't help them qualify for the feat

    also permanent illusion is an advanced talent, called "Permanent Image"

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushurando View Post
    that's not how it works, they have a higher CL for that specific ability, it doesn't help them qualify for the feat

    also permanent illusion is an advanced talent, called "Permanent Image"
    So they need something like Advanced Magical Training to improve their spherecasting, then?
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    So they need something like Advanced Magical Training to improve their spherecasting, then?
    pretty much, but they don't have class lvls as far as I am aware, and even then they'd need 20 of them, casting companions get half HD as CL tho, so you need to get them to 20 HD, however if you mage companion archetype them they get mid caster progression, which means they need 14 HD to get 10 CL, which they get at a conjuration CL of 18

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushurando View Post
    pretty much, but they don't have class lvls as far as I am aware, and even then they'd need 20 of them, casting companions get half HD as CL tho, so you need to get them to 20 HD, however if you mage companion archetype them they get mid caster progression, which means they need 14 HD to get 10 CL, which they get at a conjuration CL of 18
    Ah, yep. That'd be the way - Companion Archetypes. And, of course, they'd pick up their 15th HD (and 8th feat / talent) at 20th, at a time when they've got a spherecaster level of 11.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Ehh, cool theorycrafting, but I'm going to stick with instantaneously generating a permanent mock copy of any item, creature, or weather I want out of thin air, without adding in the ability to do literally anything at all that I can imagine. The difference is marginal in wording but extreme in practical power.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    has this found a gm yet?

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    has this found a gm yet?
    Not as far as I can tell. There's some theorycrafting on PC builds, but that's all I have seen over the last few days.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    We still have high hopes though. It's understandable that an intrigued GM might need their time to pick this up. Especially when contemplating changing or keeping the OP and when filling in the specifics of the rulesets for this game.

    It is lovely seeing you guys spar about your builds. One thing that strikes me is the popularity of spheres in this.

    I don't necessarily see it as the more powerful option compared to standard spellcasting. Maybe it's the possibility to specialize in a field that makes it so appealing, or perhaps even the fact that sphere-games don't come around that much, making any opportunity to experience it one that should be grabbed by the pony.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by MinotaurWarblad View Post
    Ehh, cool theorycrafting, but I'm going to stick with instantaneously generating a permanent mock copy of any item, creature, or weather I want out of thin air, without adding in the ability to do literally anything at all that I can imagine. The difference is marginal in wording but extreme in practical power.
    It's not literally anything at all that you can imagine. It's still got some restrictions:
    1) At 25th, assuming I can extend the table, the helpers have a caster level of 13th (11th if I can't - well, 9th, as the companion must take Circle Magic at the HD needed to have a talent gated at 10th or 11th). Anything gated above that isn't available except via your own talents (including their requirements, I imagine). So things like Homogenize, Arrest Flow, Overclock, Costly Creation, Mythical Material Maker, Shadow Double, and so on aren't on the swap-out at will list.
    2) They have just 20% of normal companion HP, and they won't have all the various boosters a PC does. They're fragile. Additionally, them lending you a talent or their spell points requires they take the Aid Another action. And they have their own initiative count (which won't be as high as yours, in general). Combined, this means that for practical purposes, you can't do this in combat, just out of combat (great for kingdom building and non-combat utility, but in battle, they're little more than weak (for the level) archers).
    3) They can't have Conjouration themselves. This means anything requiring the conjuration sphere - like the very useful Summoning and Diagram - aren't available except via your own talents.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2019-10-21 at 06:38 AM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    So, I'm going to toss this out here as an option. I understand going in that its a radical idea, and not everybody may like it. That's ok though, if you read my suggestion and it ruffles some feathers, I'm happy to withdraw it and move on.

    I am willing to try and run a game with this premise.

    Now, I'm sure that grabbed some attention. But lets slow this down. Pathfinder and 3.5 is an intense system, lots of mechanics running around and lots of opportunity for abusing and scheming. In this thread alone I've seen a lot of tinkering and suggestions for build optimization, which leads to some concerns for me. I like writing stories, and once characters hit epic levels, game balance is kind of a joke. Its just impossible to try and establish a benchmark for what kinds of things players can and cannot do, making sure everybody is contributing. Maybe someone can do it, but I certainly can't, and in a game like this, where you are looking to expand beyond what pathfinder was built to do, and add gestalt ontop of that. Its a big load.

    But like I said, I like stories, and epic level adventures are fun for that kind of game.

    Here is my suggestion. I've been pondering for quite a while at running D&D type games without using D&D (or pathfinder, in this instance). What I'd like to try is to run a game using Risus, to allow for epic level gaming without needing to have character sheets that run on for days, or me worrying about spying through character sheets to make sure everything is balanced nice and neat and orderly. Instead, everything is streamlined to a high degree and summerized so that builds are clear and streightforward. Instead of an entire mythweavers sheet, someone might have:

    Barbarian 4
    Pirate 3
    Weather 2

    and thats the entire sheet. What can their character do? Anything that fits with the concept of an epic level barbarian (Punch a building in half, shrug off being eaten by a dragon), as well as pirate based skills (Owing and operating a magical ship, finding treasure, seducing fair maidens) and some control over the weather (weather sphere abilites). Clean, simple, easy to understand. Pathfinder still provides the framework, even if the mechanics don't translate 1-1.

    Its a departure from the game premise, at least as far as mechanics go. However, nobody else has stepped forward and been willing to GM. I am offering this as a way to play the game. If that sounds like something people would be interested in, great, let me know and maybe we can go this route. I'll hammer out some more specifics and answer questions as I am able.

    If, however, you don't like the suggestion,please understand that I totally get that. Sometimes you just want to play pathfinder, even with all the mechanics and complexities. Thats cool. I'm content to wait for a GM to appear. But I wanted to give an option, see if it resonated.

    Cheers!
    High Reverend of the Church of the Icosahedron

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NineOfSpades View Post
    So, I'm going to toss this out here as an option. I understand going in that its a radical idea, and not everybody may like it. That's ok though, if you read my suggestion and it ruffles some feathers, I'm happy to withdraw it and move on.

    I am willing to try and run a game with this premise.

    Now, I'm sure that grabbed some attention. But lets slow this down. Pathfinder and 3.5 is an intense system, lots of mechanics running around and lots of opportunity for abusing and scheming. In this thread alone I've seen a lot of tinkering and suggestions for build optimization, which leads to some concerns for me. I like writing stories, and once characters hit epic levels, game balance is kind of a joke. Its just impossible to try and establish a benchmark for what kinds of things players can and cannot do, making sure everybody is contributing. Maybe someone can do it, but I certainly can't, and in a game like this, where you are looking to expand beyond what pathfinder was built to do, and add gestalt ontop of that. Its a big load.

    But like I said, I like stories, and epic level adventures are fun for that kind of game.

    Here is my suggestion. I've been pondering for quite a while at running D&D type games without using D&D (or pathfinder, in this instance). What I'd like to try is to run a game using Risus, to allow for epic level gaming without needing to have character sheets that run on for days, or me worrying about spying through character sheets to make sure everything is balanced nice and neat and orderly. Instead, everything is streamlined to a high degree and summerized so that builds are clear and streightforward. Instead of an entire mythweavers sheet, someone might have:

    Barbarian 4
    Pirate 3
    Weather 2

    and thats the entire sheet. What can their character do? Anything that fits with the concept of an epic level barbarian (Punch a building in half, shrug off being eaten by a dragon), as well as pirate based skills (Owing and operating a magical ship, finding treasure, seducing fair maidens) and some control over the weather (weather sphere abilites). Clean, simple, easy to understand. Pathfinder still provides the framework, even if the mechanics don't translate 1-1.

    Its a departure from the game premise, at least as far as mechanics go. However, nobody else has stepped forward and been willing to GM. I am offering this as a way to play the game. If that sounds like something people would be interested in, great, let me know and maybe we can go this route. I'll hammer out some more specifics and answer questions as I am able.

    If, however, you don't like the suggestion,please understand that I totally get that. Sometimes you just want to play pathfinder, even with all the mechanics and complexities. Thats cool. I'm content to wait for a GM to appear. But I wanted to give an option, see if it resonated.

    Cheers!
    It sounds interesting. I'd be up for trying it this way
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    I'd be willing to try it that way. But there would be tons of questions. As based on what I have seen, the lines of what yout could and couldn't do would be vague. I would have a ton of questions and things might get confusing.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Running a simplistic system would be problematic when it comes to a PVP game idea like this, wouldn't it? Many people would have basically the same abilities.
    Last edited by paradox26; 2019-10-21 at 11:38 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    NineOfSpades's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by paradox26 View Post
    Running a simplistic system would be problematic when it comes to a PVP game idea like this, wouldn't it? Many people would have basically the same abilities.
    I was presuming non-PVP, players are building one civilization together and warding off the efforts of other competing nations. Granted, I don't have a great plan for how to model mechanics of nations. Other than ignoring it and just running via fluff.
    High Reverend of the Church of the Icosahedron

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Ah, that makes sense then. I had raised questions early about whether this would be PVP or PVE, and the initial post seemed unclear.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    I would have to learn the system.
    Whats with the numbers? Barbarian 4... if your epic barbarian what does the 4 stand for?

  17. - Top - End - #107
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NineOfSpades View Post
    So, I'm going to toss this out here as an option. I understand going in that its a radical idea, and not everybody may like it. That's ok though, if you read my suggestion and it ruffles some feathers, I'm happy to withdraw it and move on.

    I am willing to try and run a game with this premise.

    Now, I'm sure that grabbed some attention. But lets slow this down. Pathfinder and 3.5 is an intense system, lots of mechanics running around and lots of opportunity for abusing and scheming. In this thread alone I've seen a lot of tinkering and suggestions for build optimization, which leads to some concerns for me. I like writing stories, and once characters hit epic levels, game balance is kind of a joke. Its just impossible to try and establish a benchmark for what kinds of things players can and cannot do, making sure everybody is contributing. Maybe someone can do it, but I certainly can't, and in a game like this, where you are looking to expand beyond what pathfinder was built to do, and add gestalt ontop of that. Its a big load.

    But like I said, I like stories, and epic level adventures are fun for that kind of game.

    Here is my suggestion. I've been pondering for quite a while at running D&D type games without using D&D (or pathfinder, in this instance). What I'd like to try is to run a game using Risus, to allow for epic level gaming without needing to have character sheets that run on for days, or me worrying about spying through character sheets to make sure everything is balanced nice and neat and orderly. Instead, everything is streamlined to a high degree and summerized so that builds are clear and streightforward. Instead of an entire mythweavers sheet, someone might have:

    Barbarian 4
    Pirate 3
    Weather 2

    and thats the entire sheet. What can their character do? Anything that fits with the concept of an epic level barbarian (Punch a building in half, shrug off being eaten by a dragon), as well as pirate based skills (Owing and operating a magical ship, finding treasure, seducing fair maidens) and some control over the weather (weather sphere abilites). Clean, simple, easy to understand. Pathfinder still provides the framework, even if the mechanics don't translate 1-1.

    Its a departure from the game premise, at least as far as mechanics go. However, nobody else has stepped forward and been willing to GM. I am offering this as a way to play the game. If that sounds like something people would be interested in, great, let me know and maybe we can go this route. I'll hammer out some more specifics and answer questions as I am able.

    If, however, you don't like the suggestion,please understand that I totally get that. Sometimes you just want to play pathfinder, even with all the mechanics and complexities. Thats cool. I'm content to wait for a GM to appear. But I wanted to give an option, see if it resonated.

    Cheers!
    While I appreciate the offer, I am not fond of Risus. It is much more fit for a Conan-like game, where things are simple and brutal. The ruleset doesn't hold up as well when you are making complex games that feature godlike characters.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeMonsters View Post
    I would have to learn the system.
    Whats with the numbers? Barbarian 4... if your epic barbarian what does the 4 stand for?
    Short answer: Number of dice you roll when doing a typical 'barbarian-y' thing. Part of the rule system is narrative focus, so anytime you can describe how an action fits within one of your roles, you can use that. So taking the example character, if you wanted to perform a tribal-war dance before a battle, I'd probably be cool with letting you roll 4 dice as that fits with the 'barbarian' skill, where as if you wanted to use your barbarian skill to do ballroom dancing, that's not really applicable unless you come up with a damn good justification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Dharma View Post
    While I appreciate the offer, I am not fond of Risus. It is much more fit for a Conan-like game, where things are simple and brutal. The ruleset doesn't hold up as well when you are making complex games that feature godlike characters.
    since thats a pretty valid concern, I want to respond to it. Not to disagree with you, but just to give my own thought process. In Risus, the difficulty of tasks really scales based on the impact that event has in the story, which to me is largely independent of the skill level of the game. So for example, summoning up a long dead god to make your character breakfast is a fairly low difficulty roll since it has minimal story impact, where as delivering a speech to convince the same god to ally its worshipers across the planes to your cause is a much higher difficulty simply because that has further reaching impacts on the games story.
    Last edited by NineOfSpades; 2019-10-21 at 03:15 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Denomar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    withdrawing. The more I think about this the less I want anything to do with it.
    All Hail Fun!
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    No... no... its... its supposed to be 'then'... NO. DENOMAR OUT. YOU HAVE RUINED EVERYTHING.
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  20. - Top - End - #110
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    It's fun to see that this has sparked some sort of spin-off. It seems that there are enough players interested in it.

    Aside from that I would prefer to stick to Pathfinder. Would you guys mind creating your own thread for the other system?

    (I'll make sure to follow the progress and storyline, very exciting stuff!!)

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    greenpotato's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    posting interest as a player in the pathfinder version

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Sorry, I might have been unclear, I wasn't looking to spin off, since I'd hate to be stealing players from anything or dividing attentions. I just wanted to toss out a suggestion for our OP to consider.

    Let the wait for a GM continue!
    High Reverend of the Church of the Icosahedron

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    How many people would be interested in playing this game Via Voice in Discord? Pathfinder rules , non pvp except in the judging of said civilization for the right of godhood, maybe 2-3 entire civilizations for the party to conquer , some natural disasters, some races for beneficial artifacts, (maybe the destruction/stealing/undermining of a lieutenant or two) . Saturdays, in the afternoon cst every other week is what I think I would have time for and want to do. I would likely take only 3 players as its a lot of stuff to juggle (25th level PC with years of backstory with a civilization kingdom of somekind going for godhood) although, If there is not enough interest for voice, I would be willing to do text, but I would not be doing pbp , I would do text via discord and would still only be available Saturday afternoons biweekly. Let me know what you guys think.

  24. - Top - End - #114
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Soramus View Post
    How many people would be interested in playing this game Via Voice in Discord? Pathfinder rules , non pvp except in the judging of said civilization for the right of godhood, maybe 2-3 entire civilizations for the party to conquer , some natural disasters, some races for beneficial artifacts, (maybe the destruction/stealing/undermining of a lieutenant or two) . Saturdays, in the afternoon cst every other week is what I think I would have time for and want to do. I would likely take only 3 players as its a lot of stuff to juggle (25th level PC with years of backstory with a civilization kingdom of somekind going for godhood) although, If there is not enough interest for voice, I would be willing to do text, but I would not be doing pbp , I would do text via discord and would still only be available Saturday afternoons biweekly. Let me know what you guys think.
    I'd be interested, but really depends on what time exactly you're thinking, for me at least since I am from europe

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushurando View Post
    I'd be interested, but really depends on what time exactly you're thinking, for me at least since I am from europe
    230 pm cst - 6pm cst. Depending on the interest , and the people who would wish to play I could adjust about 2 hours in either direction.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    That is tempting, but I just worked out it also starts at 3.30am on Sunday morning for me. Which may be possible, but I think I will wait on an online PBP version.

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Soramus View Post
    230 pm cst - 6pm cst. Depending on the interest , and the people who would wish to play I could adjust about 2 hours in either direction.
    I'd be interested in that case, since that'd be doable for me

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Soramus View Post
    How many people would be interested in playing this game Via Voice in Discord?
    I don't reliably have any kind of scheduel where I could allow for such interactions, so if the game ends up doing that I'd have to drop.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NineOfSpades View Post
    I don't reliably have any kind of scheduel where I could allow for such interactions, so if the game ends up doing that I'd have to drop.
    Discord of any form: if the game ends up doing that I'd have to drop

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Pathfinder High-Level mission to Godhood

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    Discord of any form: if the game ends up doing that I'd have to drop
    me too, as a busy person the perks on playing via forum are priceless
    Last edited by Drako_Beoulve; 2019-10-23 at 11:12 AM.
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