Epic Elder Eidolon

[schreier]

I was trying to build a really cool epic level stronghold, with an awesome guardian of some sort. The epic golems and colossus are are too big, so I started playing around with the elder eidolon template. I found a thread mentioning that you could get it to apply to outsiders by layering on the half-dragon template.

The Marilith (six-armed snake tailed demon) seems like an awesome target from an appearance perspective, as well as the ability to load up with 6 magic swords.

Could you make a: Elder Eidolon Half-Dragon Marilith? Then, could you add the paragon creature template on top of it? Obviously, it would be a stupid-high CR rating, but the point in this case is to look cool more than anything else.

If so, what would the stats be? From what I can tell, the feats that the marilith gets are combat oriented so would be kept. I'm not sure what the damage would be on the special attacks like constrict.

It would grow wings, and somehow be able to fly I think (even though it would weigh at least 2 tons) ... I think its movement would be 120/240 (average fly)?

The stat line I get is: Str 60, Dex 38, Con -, Int -, Wis 26, Cha 16 (weird to have wis 26 cha 16 on a construct, but I believe that would be correct?)

Not sure if it would get the 2 bonus feats from the Paragon - I think it would, but would need to be sure to take simple combat feats.

Anything cool I'm missing to stack onto it?

As far as equipment - obviously 6 magic swords, potentially magic armor ... not sure what else.

Like I said, this is stupid powerful and expensive - but just playing around.

[ezekielraiden]

You can make a half-dragon marilith, because mariliths are alive: the Outsider type includes the text, "Unlike most other living creatures," which would only make sense if mariliths are alive. They're also corporeal (the only other requirement for the half-dragon template on the SRD), so I see no problems there. Being Large, you're correct that it would have wings. It is now a Large Dragon (Augmented Outsider, Chaotic, Evil), adding the Extraplanar subtype when not on its home plane.

From there, Elder Eidolon is a perfectly valid template to add--but only because we already added the half-dragon template, as Outsider is not one of the qualified types, but Dragon is. The Elder Eidolon Half-Dragon Marilith is now a Large Construct (Augmented Dragon, Augmented Outsider, Chaotic, Evil).

Paragon Creature has no type requirements (I can't even tell if it's an Inherited or Acquired template, though since we're applying it last I guess that doesn't matter), so it's easily applied. It makes no changes to type or subtypes, so things remain as they were. We end up with a Paragon Elder Eidolon Half-Dragon Marilith, a Large Construct (Augmented Dragon, Augmented Outsider, Chaotic, Evil).

[schreier]

I think that the elder eidolon loses all subtypes and does not gain the augmented subtype, so would just be construct right?

And Paragon adds to each attribute, but wouldn't add two intelligence or constitution since they're both -

I think Paragon would add two combat related feats too?

[ezekielraiden]

I think that the elder eidolon loses all subtypes and does not gain the augmented subtype, so would just be construct right?

Ah, yes, that would be correct. I misread and just applied the usual method, which doesn't apply in this case.

And Paragon adds to each attribute, but wouldn't add two intelligence or constitution since they're both -

Yeah, since Elder Eidolon specifically says that it has no Con/Int score, it can't be increased or decreased. (The key difference most people don't get between zero and nothing--zero is a quantity, nothing is a status. Having zero temperature is radically different from not having a temperature at all.)

I think Paragon would add two combat related feats too?

I believe it only adds one feat, at least from the SRD version. "Feats: Same as base creature, plus one bonus feat."

[schreier]

It's really strange - the paragon template in the Epic Level Handbook mentions 2 bonus feats, and the zip/pdf update doesn't change that (just updating the DR to 10/epic).

The epic level handbook says: "Feats: Same as the base creature, plus two bonus feats."

You are right that the SRD says "Feats: Same as the base creature, plus one bonus feat."

I wonder why/how/when that change occurred, and which is RAW at this point. Obviously the SRD would overrule the 3.0 ELH, but the official WOTC update didn't change to one feat, so I'm not sure how that would work.